Huge issue with staff using 'time played' to accuse people of cheating

[OmegaRejectz]

1 hour ago, TimeLordCrow13y said:

I just wish I could figure out how to look up my Exophase times. I’ve tried looking up my PSN name + exophase and got no results. And I don’t particularly want to make an account on the site. 

 

1 hour ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

According to exophase my psn account didn't even exist until i made an account on exophase itself, which was interesting   

I'm pretty sure you NEED an account to view your PSN on Exophase.

[Paperclip1776]

There's been no evidence that:

 

1.  The CRT only reviews Exophase data and uses the results as gold to determine if a person cheats

2. Other data/research is not being used to determine if a person cheats

 

Certainly, looking at how fast a trophy is earned does make sense to help determine if a user cheated.  I'm sure in many disputes it's blatantly obvious and you don't need to look into the issue further while other disputes aren't as obvious and other research needs to go into it.  I don't understand how everyone jumping onboard with the OP in this thread is using the quote from the CRT member as something negative.  The CRT member appears to have done a huge amount of research on this one trophy dispute and based on the results they concluded it's likely caused by cheating.  

 

Most of us don't know all the effort and time spent on going through these disputes.  I've read through a bunch of disputes in the past and of course, everyone's innocent (even the most obvious disputes where the person cheated).  I'm sure out of all the disputes the CRT gets daily, that a few of them were considered cheating but were legitimately completed.  I get members being angry over that.  It's totally a human response.  I feel, however, that the OP of this topic is either passionate that they didn't cheat or pissed they were caught and using a quote as retaliation.  I actually get the quote of "...but when a player's time is ONLY messed up on the hardest games in existence, they've cheated."  This is a quote, IMO, might be out of frustration that most of the time, is likely correct that the person cheated.  This CRT member did 50 tests.  That's a lot of effort to determine results.

 

[iriihutoR84]

I have the platinum trophy in Days Gone with less than 1 hour registered on Exophase. Apart from that everything looks pretty accurate (with the exceptions of collections and Lost Legacy which counts as Uncharted 4) but this still shows to me that there are exceptions where the play time tracking does not work well at all. 

 

Isn't it also true that you need to be online for the play time to register? 

 

7 minutes ago, OmegaRejectz said:

 

I'm pretty sure you NEED an account to view your PSN on Exophase.

 

You don't need to register an account. You just need to type in a PSN ID so you can do it for anyone's profile. Not sure if there is an easier way but if you generate a Gamercard then the PSN ID you used for it will be tracked on the site. 

[Velvet]

This site gives me anxiety over just being a gamer. 

[Sergen]

Not only can the play time tracking on the console track too little play time, but also too much play time:

 

So can anyone tell us how someone is able to play a game too much for the tracker to handle?

 

On the topic of Exophase, if you make an account there you can click on the small pencil icon on the game's thumbnail and from there you can manually edit your play times. I changed all my play times on there to 69 hours, you're gonna need a PS5 to see my actual play times on my profile if you're not using the PSN API.

 

As far as testing how to create bad play time stats is concerned, unless you have a way of going back to specific PS4 firmware updates any testing you do with the current firmware is probably in vain. There are millions of people who play video games, eventually someone is gonna have issues with stat tracking, it should really be taken with a grain of salt when the time stamps a person has on their trophy list are legit. How widely available is CFW time stamp editing on the PS4?

Edited April 29, 2021 by Sergen

[Nieird]

Just now, Sergen said:

 

 

49.8 years playing Apex, I am jealous of your free time

[Sergen]

Just now, Nieird said:

49.8 years playing Apex, I am jealous of your free time

 

Not my profile, I found their profile and hid the username to avoid the "naming and shaming" rule. But I posted it on my profile in the past to say that you can write off the play time tracker for being very inconsistent with people's play times, either showing too much time or too little time.

[TimeLordCrow13y]

37 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

 

https://www.exophase.com/psn/user/TimeLordCrow13y/

 

Thank you!!! 

 

32 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Oh look, Tera, the game has no time on it and yet you earned trophies. I'm sure you've not cheated on it, but i'm also sure someone would use this as evidence to say that you have in some way.

As someone said before, it could just be that since you've just been added to the site, your time hasn't updated. Yet other people on exophase have had an account for years, and still have games that have no time listed.

I just don't get why this site would be used to 'catch cheaters' when clearly it should be fulfilling a function that simply doesn't work  :/ 

 

Yeah, most of my times were correct-ish (I guess it doesn’t show PS3 times though?). But even though I haven’t played in a bit, I’ve likely spent at least 10 hours in TERA, so I have no clue what’s going on with that. 

 

And you’re correct, I haven’t cheated on it (or any other game for that matter). I don’t even like using “soft cheats” (using in-game menus to unlock trophies quickly, messing with the date and time on my system, etc) which are allowed on the site. I have quickly quit out of a game after a trophy popped but before an autosave to get a few “Option A or Option B” trophies though. 

[Ancestral_Spirit]

1 hour ago, Paperclip1776 said:

 I feel, however, that the OP of this topic is either passionate that they didn't cheat or pissed they were caught and using a quote as retaliation.  I actually get the quote of "...but when a player's time is ONLY messed up on the hardest games in existence, they've cheated."  This is a quote, IMO, might be out of frustration that most of the time, is likely correct that the person cheated.  This CRT member did 50 tests.  That's a lot of effort to determine results.

 

 

So basically.

'I cheated at a game'  SEE THEY ADMIT THEY CHEATED

'i've not cheated at a game, but i don't like that others are getting banned for little evidence' THIS PERSON IS DEFENDING SOMEONE THEREFORE A CHEATER

 

My guy, what?

This is what is called a catch 22. Dark_Overlord is my partner, and i know he hasn't cheated any games, but now because i'm defending him after you just called him a cheater am i now a cheater as well? You're also saying 'pissed that he was caught', he's had one flag, and it was from some muppet who flagged him for LBP 2, twice for same thing that was lifted the first time they flagged him   

 

We're not saying that CRT don't get it right a lot of the time, but we're also saying that they seem to get it wrong quite a lot too, and it seems they get it wrong a lot because of unsubstantiated claims, spurious accusations and a guilty until proven innocent attitude.

[Dark_Overlord]

1 hour ago, Paperclip1776 said:

There's been no evidence that:

 

1.  The CRT only reviews Exophase data and uses the results as gold to determine if a person cheats

2. Other data/research is not being used to determine if a person cheats

 

Certainly, looking at how fast a trophy is earned does make sense to help determine if a user cheated.  I'm sure in many disputes it's blatantly obvious and you don't need to look into the issue further while other disputes aren't as obvious and other research needs to go into it.  I don't understand how everyone jumping onboard with the OP in this thread is using the quote from the CRT member as something negative.  The CRT member appears to have done a huge amount of research on this one trophy dispute and based on the results they concluded it's likely caused by cheating.  

 

Most of us don't know all the effort and time spent on going through these disputes.  I've read through a bunch of disputes in the past and of course, everyone's innocent (even the most obvious disputes where the person cheated).  I'm sure out of all the disputes the CRT gets daily, that a few of them were considered cheating but were legitimately completed.  I get members being angry over that.  It's totally a human response.  I feel, however, that the OP of this topic is either passionate that they didn't cheat or pissed they were caught and using a quote as retaliation.  I actually get the quote of "...but when a player's time is ONLY messed up on the hardest games in existence, they've cheated."  This is a quote, IMO, might be out of frustration that most of the time, is likely correct that the person cheated.  This CRT member did 50 tests.  That's a lot of effort to determine results.

 

 

*Sigh* you're not understanding my point :/

 

Exophase takes the times from PSN (Unless manually edited), whether the mods have a different tool to read the times doesn't matter, they would still be receiving the same unreliable times.

 

Did you ignore the parts where B1rvine stated the times are 'dead accurate' and anybody with messed up times is either 'cheating or leaderboard rule breaking'.

 

The whole point of this thread is to point out the reported times from the PSN are not accurate and should not be being used in disputes.

 

Quote

 I feel, however, that the OP of this topic is either passionate that they didn't cheat or pissed they were caught and using a quote as retaliation.

 

Neither, I just don't get why unreliable data is being used to point at people and say 'you cheated'.  Other, more reliable data should be used.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dark_Overlord

[Ancestral_Spirit]

46 minutes ago, TimeLordCrow13y said:

 

Thank you!!! 

 

 

Yeah, most of my times were correct-ish (I guess it doesn’t show PS3 times though?). But even though I haven’t played in a bit, I’ve likely spent at least 10 hours in TERA, so I have no clue what’s going on with that. 

 

And you’re correct, I haven’t cheated on it (or any other game for that matter). I don’t even like using “soft cheats” (using in-game menus to unlock trophies quickly, messing with the date and time on my system, etc) which are allowed on the site. I have quickly quit out of a game after a trophy popped but before an autosave to get a few “Option A or Option B” trophies though. 

Yeah, i noticed that PS3 and Vita times don't show up too.

 

Oh i use in game menu cheats, for games like Conan for example, and i mess with system times for stuff like Adventure Capitalist (which i really ought to finish at some point). I've also done the save and reload for the 'Option A, Option B' type trophies. Since they're allowed i don't really see the issue with it, but i get why you wouldn't wanna use them though 

Although for something like Conan, i don't know of anyone who would have the fortitude or time to do all those trophies without the in game spawning menu and in game mod controls. I think doing all of that without those would drive me completely bonkers!  >.< 

[Ancestral_Spirit]

@Paperclip1776

 

Your trophy lists for 'The Playroom' and 'Game of Thrones' tell me you have completed the games, yet no time is listed.

However i would never accuse you of cheating based on the PSN times, that exophase uses, alone.

Granted if i had more evidence, that would be something else entirely, but people are getting flagged and branded as cheaters based on listed playtimes on PSN and by extension exophase, as the site claims it uses the PSN playtimes.

 

If we go by the logic that is being used that the PSN playtimes are 100% accurate, then you cheated The Playroom and game of Thrones.

You know you haven't, and i'm pretty damn sure you haven't, but if PSN playtimes are 100% correct with no wiggle room, you cheated it * shrug *

 

I've seen cases on this site being closed with no evidence listed as to how people know that others have cheated, just to say that they have.

Granted quite a few of those cases are utterly blatant, and a lot as of late have been people desperately trying to dodge the accusation by changing their user names. I can understand why CRT wouldn't wanna bother going through the rigmarole of explaining that to people, when it's quite obvious to them, but i feel it should be done just so that there's some transparency.

 

If someone said to me 'this guy cheated, you can trust me', i'd still ask for the proof. No i can't trust you, just like i can't trust the guy that's been accused of cheating. I like evidence. I like facts. And i like proof.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ancestral_Spirit

[Guest]

Psn timed are strange, sometimes  they don't  even  register,  but I believe you cannot see them on PSNP in the first place?

[Dark_Overlord]

3 minutes ago, scemopagliaccioh said:

Psn timed are strange, sometimes  they don't  even  register,  but I believe you cannot see them on PSNP in the first place?

 

No you can't.  PSNP CRT have some way of seeing them and have done for a while.  Exophase has started publicly displaying the times reported by PSN.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dark_Overlord

[Paperclip1776]

51 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

@Paperclip1776

 

Your trophy lists for 'The Playroom' and 'Game of Thrones' tell me you have completed the games, yet no time is listed.

However i would never accuse you of cheating based on the PSN times, that exophase uses, alone.

Granted if i had more evidence, that would be something else entirely, but people are getting flagged and branded as cheaters based on listed playtimes on PSN and by extension exophase, as the site claims it uses the PSN playtimes.

 

If we go by the logic that is being used that the PSN playtimes are 100% accurate, then you cheated The Playroom and game of Thrones.

You know you haven't, and i'm pretty damn sure you haven't, but if PSN playtimes are 100% correct with no wiggle room, you cheated it * shrug *

 

I've seen cases on this site being closed with no evidence listed as to how people know that others have cheated, just to say that they have.

Granted quite a few of those cases are utterly blatant, and a lot as of late have been people desperately trying to dodge the accusation by changing their user names. I can understand why CRT wouldn't wanna bother going through the rigmarole of explaining that to people, when it's quite obvious to them, but i feel it should be done just so that there's some transparency.

 

If someone said to me 'this guy cheated, you can trust me', i'd still ask for the proof. No i can't trust you, just like i can't trust the guy that's been accused of cheating. I like evidence. I like facts. And i like proof.

Point taken.  I don't have a counter argument to this at the moment.  I appreciate the additional info shared.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Paperclip1776
changed wording

[Quink666]

Exophase times are off by alot for many of my games.

 

It says i have played DBD for 447.68h but i have well over 2k hours in that game. All the times that are off are off by alot. 

 

I also platted AC Rogue in 0.04 hours. I'm a god. 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Quink666

[Paperclip1776]

1 hour ago, Dark_Overlord said:

 

*Sigh* you're not understanding my point :/

 

Exophase takes the times from PSN (Unless manually edited), whether the mods have a different tool to read the times doesn't matter, they would still be receiving the same unreliable times.

 

Did you ignore the parts where B1rvine stated the times are 'dead accurate' and anybody with messed up times is either 'cheating or leaderboard rule breaking'.

 

The whole point of this thread is to point out the reported times from the PSN are not accurate and should not be being used in disputes.

 

 

Neither, I just don't get why unreliable data is being used to point at people and say 'you cheated'.  Other, more reliable data should be used.

I get your position on this.  I don't have evidence either to counter this argument or agree with it.  Sounds like you've put some time into this topic so I'll listen and make my own conclusions.

 

Good conversation.

[AJ_Radio]

What I find funny is a guy who made an account back in 2012 has now suddenly become active in a thread regarding how the CRT handles disputes, with just 94 posts to his name.

 

Point taken, crap like this is why I never bother posting in any disputes thread or bother arguing trophy philosophies from either side. I've had a whole bunch of posts automatically hidden even when I gave ample reason that somebody did cheat by using timestamps or whatever.

 

I don't know how B1rvine handles this crap. I would of stepped down from that position a long time ago. But here we are bitching about trophies that mean practically nothing to the majority of gamers out there.

 

Makes me wonder how you guys handle day to day life if this is enough to have you all overly sensitive.

[Dark_Overlord]

N/A

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dark_Overlord

[Ancestral_Spirit]

49 minutes ago, Paperclip1776 said:

Point taken.  I don't have a counter argument to this at the moment.  I appreciate the additional info shared.

 

I would just like proof beyond a doubt is all.

I made a point of this in a dispute thread about the whole 'guilty until proven innocent part', and i was told that this site isn't a court of law and therefore shouldn't be treated as such.

If we treat the whole site like that, then anyone can be accused of anything and we just have to take someones word on it because THEY say they have the authority.

However i feel in an age where comments on the internet can do things like make or break a persons career or livelihood, i think we should start holding those sort of principles in almost all things we do.

Granted, i'm talking about trophies on PSN and not a murder trial    but i still think innocent until proven guilty is a good basis to start most things on 

 

53 minutes ago, Quink666 said:

Exophase times are off by alot for many of my games.

 

It says i have played DBD for 447.68h but i have well over 2k hours in that game. All the times that are off are off by alot. 

 

I also platted AC Rogue in 0.04 hours. I'm a god. 

 

Holy crap i wish i could do that with Assassins Creed 3! That game was a dumpster fire compared to the others, the less time spent on it the better 

 

39 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

What I find funny is a guy who made an account back in 2012 has now suddenly become active in a thread regarding how the CRT handles disputes, with just 94 posts to his name.

 

Point taken, crap like this is why I never bother posting in any disputes thread or bother arguing trophy philosophies from either side. I've had a whole bunch of posts automatically hidden even when I gave ample reason that somebody did cheat by using timestamps or whatever.

 

I don't know how B1rvine handles this crap. I would of stepped down from that position a long time ago. But here we are bitching about trophies that mean practically nothing to the majority of gamers out there.

 

Makes me wonder how you guys handle day to day life if this is enough to have you all overly sensitive.

The insinuation there in your first line alone goes back to my argument of people will accuse you of cheating for literally anything.

Because he's not active on this forum much he's cheated something.

Someone goes back to a game years later to clear up their list, they cheated.

You have no time listed on an unaffiliated site, you cheated.

You can't remember how you obtained X trophy 7 years ago, you cheated it cos you can't remember.

Do we have to provide proof? Nope! Just trust us!  :/

 

And if you've made points like that and shown evidence to prove or disprove a cheater, then it SHOULD be taken into account. Those posts shouldn't have been hidden, and instead should have been taken into account when going through a dispute.

People aren't bitching about trophies. People are annoyed that you can be branded a cheater and a liar with little to no proof.

 

Also curious why'd you'd talk about trophies like that, coming from someone who's a premium member, has over 8000 posts and boasts about their ultra rare trophies in their signature. Surely if you go through that much effort, you must care about trophies enough to 'be bitching' about them   

[FilmFanatic]

Unless Sony can tell the difference between someone playing a game and someone idling a game then there is no way to accurately determine play time. All you can track is how long you have had a game open, not how much time you have spent actually playing it.

[Infected Elite]

4 hours ago, OmegaRejectz said:

 

I'm pretty sure you NEED an account to view your PSN on Exophase.

no you dont

26 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

I would just like proof beyond a doubt is all.

I made a point of this in a dispute thread about the whole 'guilty until proven innocent part', and i was told that this site isn't a court of law and therefore shouldn't be treated as such.

If we treat the whole site like that, then anyone can be accused of anything and we just have to take someones word on it because THEY say they have the authority.

However i feel in an age where comments on the internet can do things like make or break a persons career or livelihood, i think we should start holding those sort of principles in almost all things we do.

Granted, i'm talking about trophies on PSN and not a murder trial    but i still think innocent until proven guilty is a good basis to start most things on 

 

Holy crap i wish i could do that with Assassins Creed 3! That game was a dumpster fire compared to the others, the less time spent on it the better 

 

The insinuation there in your first line alone goes back to my argument of people will accuse you of cheating for literally anything.

Because he's not active on this forum much he's cheated something.

Someone goes back to a game years later to clear up their list, they cheated.

You have no time listed on an unaffiliated site, you cheated.

You can't remember how you obtained X trophy 7 years ago, you cheated it cos you can't remember.

Do we have to provide proof? Nope! Just trust us!  :/

 

And if you've made points like that and shown evidence to prove or disprove a cheater, then it SHOULD be taken into account. Those posts shouldn't have been hidden, and instead should have been taken into account when going through a dispute.

People aren't bitching about trophies. People are annoyed that you can be branded a cheater and a liar with little to no proof.

 

Also curious why'd you'd talk about trophies like that, coming from someone who's a premium member, has over 8000 posts and boasts about their ultra rare trophies in their signature. Surely if you go through that much effort, you must care about trophies enough to 'be bitching' about them   

AJ always bitches. 

[steel6burgh]

2 minutes ago, Infected Elite said:

 

AJ always bitches. 

yup and like the guy with 10,000 posts on here doesn't care about trophies, especially when you you can't view a post without adding your 2c, arguing, or being insulting.  Makes you wonder how he handles day to day life when he get so easily lured into a conversation with an argumentative accusing attitude, huh?

[Infected Elite]

6 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

yup and like the guy with 10,000 posts on here doesn't care about trophies, especially when you you can't view a post without adding your 2c, arguing, or being insulting.  Makes you wonder how he handles day to day life when he get so easily lured into a conversation with an argumentative accusing attitude, huh?

oh i know. lol.

cant even have a small answer, he has to post his life story. Like geez. ?

 

but On topic exophase isnt the best site either, it says i earned 4 trophies from ps4 spiderman in 7 seconds. While this site says i plat it 6days.

Spiderman ps5 i autopopped. So idfk. No site is perfect. I just can't believe how much these stats mean to people. Unless you're getting paid for it, stats shouldn't mean all that much. As long as you're enjoying what you do and accomplish while gaming, thats what really matters. 

[Valkirye22]

4 hours ago, Sergen said:

On the topic of Exophase, if you make an account there you can click on the small pencil icon on the game's thumbnail and from there you can manually edit your play times. I changed all my play times on there to 69 hours...

 

Nice