How far can one go with only shovelwares?

[DrBloodmoney]

19 minutes ago, TheDarkKratos said:

Tell this guy that 🤣

 

https://psnprofiles.com/ikemenzi

He only got his first platinum 10 years ago, so yes, 10 years ago he’d probably have agreed.

[D-E-U-S-X]

The impact of Shovelware on the classic leaderboard is irreversible.

There should be alternative leaderboards that focus on other types of trophy hunting.

Otherwise, people who are unwilling to play Shovelware will feel like their achievements are worthless given the constantly decreasing rank.

[Dauersack]

21 minutes ago, D-E-U-S-X said:

The impact of Shovelware on the classic leaderboard is irreversible.

There should be alternative leaderboards that focus on other types of trophy hunting.

Otherwise, people who are unwilling to play Shovelware will feel like their achievements are worthless given the constantly decreasing rank.

No matter what kind of special leaderboard you think about, A you will not convince anyone in charge here to actually implement anything of the sort, that topic has been discussed to hell and back, and B, no matter what parameters any leaderboard could ever use, there will always be the ones who try to cheat the system as much as they can get away with, spend their money, their time, even their health, and play whatever they need to in the most perverse and unnatural of ways if that is what gives them the edge towards the top of these leaderboards, for whatever reason.

Lists with the fastest and easiest plats existed long before the shovelware sewage flood, same mentality, same goal, only the severity was different, like a disease that gradually got worse, from Telltale over Mayo all the way down to the jumping food stacks. At the end of the day, if you are a somewhat balanced and functional human being then it makes little sense to compete with people who have vastly different goals and priorities than the average person and are willing to throw their own well being out of the window for irrelevant rankings on meaningless leaderboards.

 

If you really want to have some healthy competition that feels rewarding, search for a small to medium sized group of somewhat like minded people and open up a small forum or discord channel for the occasional sessions, experience exchanges, maybe small contests and of course a small leaderboard that keeps track of progress if you want, anything else seems rather pointless at the moment when it comes to ranking.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Dauersack

[D-E-U-S-X]

26 minutes ago, Dauersack said:

No matter what kind of special leaderboard you think about, A you will not convince anyone in charge here to actually implement anything of the sort, that topic has been discussed to hell and back, and B, no matter what parameters any leaderboard could ever use, there will always be the ones who try to cheat the system as much as they can get away with, spend their money, their time, even their health, and play whatever they need to in the most perverse and unnatural of ways if that is what gives them the edge towards the top of these leaderboards, for whatever reason.

Lists with the fastest and easiest plats existed long before the shovelware sewage flood, same mentality, same goal, only the severity was different, like a disease that gradually got worse, from Telltale over Mayo all the way down to the jumping food stacks. At the end of the day, if you are a somewhat balanced and functional human being then it makes little sense to compete with people who have vastly different goals and priorities than the average person and are willing to throw their own well being out of the window for irrelevant rankings on meaningless leaderboards.

 

If you really want to have some healthy competition that feels rewarding, search for a small to medium sized group of somewhat like minded people and open up a small forum or discord channel for the occasional sessions, experience exchanges, maybe small contests and of course a small leaderboard that keeps track of progress if you want, anything else seems rather pointless at the moment when it comes to ranking.

 

Of course, the chances of getting other leaderboards on this side are slim. If other leaderboards calculate their points based on other criteria, this can also improve the rank of people who do not have the goal of getting into the top ranks but of continuing to play as before.

Here are my rankings from another site to show the difference.

 

[TheDarkKratos]

Well, to add my further 2 cents worth, I find this article by Sony hilarious!

https://www.gaming.net/sony-is-clamping-down-on-playstation-store-shovelware/

 

That was posted almost one year ago. But the amount of Shovelware has increased almost exponentially.

I ask again - Why would Sony remove games, even if they are UTTER crap, from their stores? They won't.

 

Expect the amount of Shovelware to increase by at least 30% or more by Christmas 2024.

Personally, I couldn't care less. As for the Leaderboards being flooded by Shovelware, that's life.

 

If it really bothers alot of gamers who are against Spammy games, then the answer is simple.

Stay off the Leaderboards, stop playing games, don't let it get under your skin. Or start playing them. Lol

 

Put it this way - In 100 years from now, who's gonna GAFF. 😁

[Pelziowo]

41 minutes ago, TheDarkKratos said:

Well, to add my further 2 cents worth, I find this article by Sony hilarious!

https://www.gaming.net/sony-is-clamping-down-on-playstation-store-shovelware/

 

That was posted almost one year ago. But the amount of Shovelware has increased almost exponentially.

I ask again - Why would Sony remove games, even if they are UTTER crap, from their stores? They won't.

I don't think you quite understand how bad it was a year ago, as well as many people misunderstanding what sony was doing about taking action here. They were stopping "Asset Flips" from getting on the store from this, which has happened. This is why you no longer see games like "Stroke the Animal" "Jumping Food" "Journey Games" "The Pig P Games" "Break Games" "Run Games" "Fun Games" "Quiz Thiz" "Tump Jump Games" "Pretty Bird Games" and probably a few others that i'm forgetting.

 

I've been playing for the PS5 leaderboard since the console came out, so i've seen the changes that sony has made to the store approvals, and while shovelware does still get released, it has improved. 

 

About a year ago, i would dread every friday that would come around, as i see 5 new asset flip games with 8 trophy lists each. I would not be surprised if there were weeks where 50 platinums worth of asset flips were released.

 

We've seen the worse of it, but even without shovelware, the meta will always be to play the shortest games if you're interested in the leaderboard, even back on the PS3 where the meta was VNs and kids games like hannah montana and megamind.

 

I think people need to view the leaderboard as just a different style on trophy hunting. Some people enjoy that (including myself) but if you're looking to play long and harder games, you're not able to compete very far for the leaderboard.

 

TLDR just do what we enjoy doing

Edited October 14, 2023 by Pelziowo

[FishOfPain]

18 minutes ago, TheDarkKratos said:

I ask again - Why would Sony remove games, even if they are UTTER crap, from their stores? They won't.

 

I could think of one way for it to happen, and something I'm a bit surprised havrn't happened yet. 

 

This whole thing with the shovelware is crazy from the perspective of us trophy people in the know. But imagine a kid coming across one of these, thinking it's a fun plattformer where you play as a pizza or other food item. Their parent lets them buy it... and then the kid starts playing and finds out there's no "game" to be found there. Of course it's always a good idea to look up things before buying, but I've sometimes bought games on a whim before, and on any old console from the NES to PS3 I've never had to question if I got a GAME - it might be a stinker, but at least a game.  On old consoles things like Aabs Animals was pretty clear when they weren't games, but these needs to hide it as putting "trophy generator" in the description  didn't fly well with Sony.

 

But back to the kid... they'd be sad, their parent would be mad about this crap, and Sony wouldn't give a refund since the game had been downloaded, started and probably even platinumed before they could even figure out there's nothing more to it.

 

If they went to the media, the sensationalist gaming journalists we have today would spin it as "Sony tries to trick children", they've made hens of feathers before. Now depending on the traction it'd get, it would be really interesting to see a Sony response to that. Considering they're officially agsinst trophy games (which one was it that got de-listed for blatantly mentioning it's an easy plat?) they'd either have to backpedal on that and admit what these games are there for, or swallow it and try to pretend that it's just them having lousy quality control. In either case, it'd be interesting to see. 

 

As it is now, these games are here since Sony makes some money from them without hassle. But how much actual trouble/bad rep would be needed for them to think it's still worth it? 

[Dry]

17 minutes ago, FishOfPain said:

Which one was it that got de-listed for blatantly mentioning it's an easy plat?

It was ★★★★★ 1000 Top Rated.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Dry
Fixed hyperlink.

[CabDK]

21 minutes ago, FishOfPain said:

 

I could think of one way for it to happen, and something I'm a bit surprised havrn't happened yet. 

 

This whole thing with the shovelware is crazy from the perspective of us trophy people in the know. But imagine a kid coming across one of these, thinking it's a fun plattformer where you play as a pizza or other food item. Their parent lets them buy it... and then the kid starts playing and finds out there's no "game" to be found there. Of course it's always a good idea to look up things before buying, but I've sometimes bought games on a whim before, and on any old console from the NES to PS3 I've never had to question if I got a GAME - it might be a stinker, but at least a game.  On old consoles things like Aabs Animals was pretty clear when they weren't games, but these needs to hide it as putting "trophy generator" in the description  didn't fly well with Sony.

 

But back to the kid... they'd be sad, their parent would be mad about this crap, and Sony wouldn't give a refund since the game had been downloaded, started and probably even platinumed before they could even figure out there's nothing more to it.

 

If they went to the media, the sensationalist gaming journalists we have today would spin it as "Sony tries to trick children", they've made hens of feathers before. Now depending on the traction it'd get, it would be really interesting to see a Sony response to that. Considering they're officially agsinst trophy games (which one was it that got de-listed for blatantly mentioning it's an easy plat?) they'd either have to backpedal on that and admit what these games are there for, or swallow it and try to pretend that it's just them having lousy quality control. In either case, it'd be interesting to see. 

 

As it is now, these games are here since Sony makes some money from them without hassle. But how much actual trouble/bad rep would be needed for them to think it's still worth it? 

It is acturally really shady when you think about it.

[shadaik]

I wanted to say this is blown out of proportion and not ever yeasy game is shovelware, but... I looked up just one undeniably shovelware series by searching for "Jumping" in the lists and I got 545 stacks in that series alone, each one giving 1,350 points, including a platinum.

 

138 stacks by Breakthrough Gaming.

117 in the "stroke" series.

 

So, yeah, even if you go by a very strict definition of shovelware and do not include  everything by companies  like Ratalaika just because they tend to publish easy lists, this is ridiculous.

[ThatMuttGuy]

15 minutes ago, shadaik said:

I wanted to say this is blown out of proportion and not ever yeasy game is shovelware, but... I looked up just one undeniably shovelware series by searching for "Jumping" in the lists and I got 545 stacks in that series alone, each one giving 1,350 points, including a platinum.

 

138 stacks by Breakthrough Gaming.

117 in the "stroke" series.

 

So, yeah, even if you go by a very strict definition of shovelware and do not include  everything by companies  like Ratalaika just because they tend to publish easy lists, this is ridiculous.

 

You can't get to almost 10,000 platinums without 90%+ being shovelware. 

 

Show me one account that has even 1000 plats that isn't 80% shovelware and I'm pretty sure you can't do it. 

[kindajustin]

5 hours ago, Pelziowo said:

I've been playing for the PS5 leaderboard since the console came out, so i've seen the changes that sony has made to the store approvals, and while shovelware does still get released, it has improved. 

 

About a year ago, i would dread every friday that would come around, as i see 5 new asset flip games with 8 trophy lists each. I would not be surprised if there were weeks where 50 platinums worth of asset flips were released.

Caro3c-gabber9's average trophies per day was 31.3 last November. It's now at 42.55.

Ikemenzi's was at an average of 58.59 last November. Now at 75.31.

Hakoom, well known for retiring from the race for the #1 spot was at an average of 30 trophies per day last November. Now at 37 per day.

By improving, you mean they've allowed for even more shovelware than previously? All the top trophy hunters are earning more trophies than ever, and I have to imagine shovelware is part of the reason.

[Jerry_Appleby]

19 minutes ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

You can't get to almost 10,000 platinums without 90%+ being shovelware. 

 

Show me one account that has even 1000 plats that isn't 80% shovelware and I'm pretty sure you can't do it. 

I'm getting there myself! Although I'm only nearing 700 plats but I have enough real games to get to 1000! 

 

I've only played maybe about a dozen games at most that are pure shovelware, only because I was in a trophy competition for .org at the time.

[Pelziowo]

31 minutes ago, kindajustin said:

By improving, you mean they've allowed for even more shovelware than previously? All the top trophy hunters are earning more trophies than ever, and I have to imagine shovelware is part of the reason.

I was talking about a year ago. I can assure you that the rate of shovelware coming out is less than it was a year ago, now whether there's more shovelware coming out now than 3 years ago, i would agree, but my point is that playstation banning flipped asset games have improved it.

 

Instead of looking at trophies per day, it's more accurate to look at the stats of a highly ranked player, and seeing their monthly activity. 9/10 you will see much higher counts in 2022 than 2023, assuming that they've been keeping up with new releases.

[D-E-U-S-X]

51 minutes ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

You can't get to almost 10,000 platinums without 90%+ being shovelware. 

 

Show me one account that has even 1000 plats that isn't 80% shovelware and I'm pretty sure you can't do it. 

https://psnprofiles.com/servus99

https://psnprofiles.com/Banana_Sausage47

https://psnprofiles.com/TonttuMummo

https://psnprofiles.com/Angus1343

https://psnprofiles.com/Bizzy_Montana_

https://psnprofiles.com/blackangel887462

https://psnprofiles.com/ugabuga8

https://psnprofiles.com/mrsoy89

https://psnprofiles.com/RubyKnight

https://psnprofiles.com/dernop

https://psnprofiles.com/TheScorpi0411

https://psnprofiles.com/Tigra

https://psnprofiles.com/Da-Eastside

https://psnprofiles.com/Chrissy1312

https://psnprofiles.com/FfredericC

[ThatMuttGuy]

10 minutes ago, D-E-U-S-X said:

https://psnprofiles.com/servus99

https://psnprofiles.com/Banana_Sausage47

https://psnprofiles.com/TonttuMummo

https://psnprofiles.com/Angus1343

https://psnprofiles.com/Bizzy_Montana_

https://psnprofiles.com/blackangel887462

https://psnprofiles.com/ugabuga8

https://psnprofiles.com/mrsoy89

https://psnprofiles.com/RubyKnight

https://psnprofiles.com/dernop

https://psnprofiles.com/TheScorpi0411

https://psnprofiles.com/Tigra

https://psnprofiles.com/Da-Eastside

https://psnprofiles.com/Chrissy1312

https://psnprofiles.com/FfredericC

 

Oh true, I guess I didn't factor in autopops, which all those accounts have in spades. 

[RedDevil757]

You'd get pretty high up the leaderboards and that's why the leaderboards are a joke now

Edited October 14, 2023 by RedDevil757

[mega-tallica]

You'll never catch up on the leaderboards UNLESS you play shovelware at this point. 

 

Even then, it's not feasible to think you can catch up to accounts who've been doing this for 10+ years already and have been committed to it the entire time. They just have way too much of a head start even if you just played nothing but shovelware to catch up. Many of the accounts high up are also doing that too so it's a lost cause. 

 

This is why I don't concern myself with leaderboard status and never have. People dedicate their entire existence to this trophy hunting thing and I'm just a normal dude who likes video games and likes getting trophies but I can't compete with those folks that ware way deeper into this stuff than I could ever be. I've gotten 3 platinum's over the past 1.5 weeks which I feel is a decent number for somebody like me and I think I went down like 90 spots on the leaderboard anyway compared to where I was 1.5 weeks ago. It would be deflating if I cared. 

 

 

[ELVIN_THE_LION]

I just don't get it ! Why ? is it really an addiction ?

Looking at the reply's im not that shocked how quickly you can climb the leader boards with shovelware and auto pop.

Even if i wanted to hit the X button 1000's of times for a fast plat who has the time to waste considering the quality of games on offer ?

Are the leaders children not going to school or wealthy people/teams that don't need to work ( probably a mixture of all )

What ever floats your boat....

Happy Gaming

Peace

[TheDarkKratos]

51 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

I don't concern myself with leaderboard status and never have. People dedicate their entire existence to this trophy hunting thing and I'm just a normal dude who likes video games and likes getting trophies but I can't compete with those folks that ware way deeper into this stuff than I could ever be. I've gotten 3 platinum's over the past 1.5 weeks which I feel is a decent number for somebody like me and I think I went down like 90 spots on the leaderboard anyway compared to where I was 1.5 weeks ago. It would be deflating if I cared.

I really like this post. It has key elements which are all relevant. In any hobby, sport, or anything even mildly competitive in life, many people will ALWAYS battle for the number one spot. It's human nature, whether we admit it or not. And trophy hunting. I mean - serious trophy hunting will consume your entire life, literally, if you let it. I know of some gamers who have Relationship problems, Marriage hardships, Health issues, Friendship and work-related problems. And yes, even Financial difficulties. Super couch potato's. All because of their trophy hunting obsession/addiction. I mean, it's almost the driving force in their lives. Much like money is the driving force in our society. And you can't tell them that, because the truth hurts.

 

You take away a gamers ability to game, and they would literally kill you. Take away a person's cell/mobile phone and see what happens. Hardcore trophy hunting is a big business these days. And I think more and more people are becoming hooked on the trophy/achievement side of gaming rather than the actual games themselves. And for the most part it's not healthy. Remember the good old days when most people played games for the fun aspect, as well as the social fun of actually playing games locally together. Those days are all but gone. Now it's like a work schedule - must platinum a minimum of 10 games today. Must get a higher spot, and beat Jo-Blo on the leaderboards this week. Must reach PSN level blah blah blah. 

 

It's kinda saddening if you break it all down. But hey, if that's what some gamers want to do, then all the more power to them. My issues lie with the proven fact that any obsession can be potentially destructive. As for Shovelware - I honestly shudder to think what the next trophy craze is going to be. Lol

Edited October 14, 2023 by TheDarkKratos

[me_is_caveman]

What are we counting as shovelware though? Anything that isn't a big budget AAA game?

[TheDarkKratos]

4 minutes ago, me_is_caveman said:

What are we counting as shovelware though? Anything that isn't a big budget AAA game?

What is a shovelware game?

 

Low-budget, poor-quality video games, released in the hopes of being purchased by unsuspecting customers, are often referred to as "shovelware". This can lead to discoverability issues when a platform has no type of quality control.

Edited October 14, 2023 by TheDarkKratos

[Just_So_Meh_]

I just literally made a small list of my selection of shovelware is and was asking how it made folks feel before stumbling this thread of the same topic XD

 

regardless, I like to think that it is games that seems too simple, tie in movies on some of them, only party game related, made really badly in one form or another of little to no story, super simple controls, repetitive gameplay, or just a really low player found in general with it followed by an even smaller amount of platinum or 100% completions. 

 

That is what I think in the least, idk what it could be ful.

[shadaik]

3 hours ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

You can't get to almost 10,000 platinums without 90%+ being shovelware. 

 

Show me one account that has even 1000 plats that isn't 80% shovelware and I'm pretty sure you can't do it. 

Problem is, we're probably having different ideas what even is shovelware.

 

To me, shovelware has to be a) low-effort and b) high-volume. Because that's were it gets its name from: One and the same game gets copied with minor variation over and over again and then shoveled onto a platform. That is why the Jumping games are shovelware while stuff like Ratalaika games and (most) Visual Novels are not shovelware, even if they have plat/100 rates well over 90%, because they are neither low-effort nor high-volume.

[colia100]

I find looking at those shovelware profiles quite interesting. 

 

It's literally a list of the rich and dumb in the trophy hunting community. 

 

A little like hollywood, but here both go hand in hand...