National Football League Thread

[Zio_Sam87]

Every year we write about teams that rested players on week 17 and lose in WC (or even divisional round)... And it's all PIT fault! All they had to do were punch out CLE during regular season instead of let them sneak in and beat them twice in a row. Especially 'cause their record was the most suspicious... 11-0 thanks to an easy schedule and look how ended bad for them.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Zio_Sam87

[skidmarkgn]

6 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 but I figured with Goff on the bench, the Rams would probably fall to Seattle.  5 mins before the game started I told my wife 'If Goff's thumb is good to go and he comes in before half-time, they have a chance'.  When did he come in, like 5 mins into the first quarter?

 

Even without Goff the Rams woulda taken that one, they were carried by Akers and the defense.

[Matto_lsi]

8 hours ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

Every year we write about teams that rested players on week 17 and lose in WC (or even divisional round)... And it's all PIT fault! All they had to do were punch out CLE during regular season instead of let them sneak in and beat them twice in a row. Especially 'cause their record was the most suspicious... 11-0 thanks to an easy schedule and look how ended bad for them.

 

They proved they were complete posers.  Browns are a decent team this year, but as it turns out, Pit's 11-0 start wasn't the reality, their 1-4 finish was.  Even if they had beat the Browns, they would have gone down in the divisional round.

 

3 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

Even without Goff the Rams woulda taken that one, they were carried by Akers and the defense.

 

I agree, to an extent, but it's still hard to say if they'd have won.  Wolford made them very one-dimensional.  And I think it's important to note the mental differences for Seattle's D.  All week they prepared for a back-up.  The threat of Goff coming in was there, but coming off surgery on his thumb, they probably figured he'd be ineffectual.  He changed the dynamic of the offense and how Seattle's D responded to it.  At least, that's how I see it, maybe you don't agree.  But to me he proved to be just enough of a threat, and a much more effective game manager, than Wolford.  Also, Kupp's return was a blessing for them, and the only reason Wolford even had a completed pass before his injury.  Sure, the Rams passing game wasn't great, but without the threat of it being there, Seattle would have just stacked 7-8 in the box all game.  Goff coming in opened the game up just enough, and I agree that Akers was the main beneficiary of that.  And the D holding Seattle to 13 points until the final 2 mins of the game was definitely huge.  The fact that Seattle's D couldn't hold the Rams to under 30 is more telling. 

 

I don't think the Rams will last though, they're heading into Green Bay... in January.  I know everyone thinks the Packers are overrated this year, but I don't see them losing this game.  But then again, the last time they were 1st overall and came off a bye week at home in the divisional round it didn't end well for them, and that season they finished 15-1.  So we'll have to wait and see, lol

 

Also, Eagles fired Pederson.  Guess they took that tank more seriously than the Giants.

[acasser]

I pray the Jets don't pick up Doug Pederson.  He has a connection with Jets' GM Joe Douglass, but I just don't see it being a fit.

 

For that matter, I pray the Jets don't pick up Eric Bienemy, either.  Of the guys who have interviewed, the two I like are Bills OC Brian Daboll and 49ers DC Robert Saleh.  But the Jets aren't a terribly attractive job right now, and I suspect their idiot interim owner is more worried about things like "diversity" than he is a good football coach.  Which has me frightened that the interview with Marvin Lewis was a sign that he's a serious contender.

[MidnightDragon]

Bill Belichick was going to be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but he declined:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/bill-belichick-declines-acceptance-of-presidential-medal-of-freedom

Edited January 12, 2021 by MidnightDragon

[skidmarkgn]

8 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

The fact that Seattle's D couldn't hold the Rams to under 30 is more telling. 

 

 

I don't think the Rams will last though, they're heading into Green Bay... in January.  I know everyone thinks the Packers are overrated this year, but I don't see them losing this game.  But then again, the last time they were 1st overall and came off a bye week at home in the divisional round it didn't end well for them, and that season they finished 15-1.  So we'll have to wait and see, lol

 

 

 

Gotta disagree with the first statement there because If we're splitting hairs then Seattle's D only allowed 23, remember, 7 of the Rams' 30 was from a pick-6.  The kickoff fumble didn't do the Seattle Defense any favors either.  If you look at every Rams drive then Seattle's defense was pretty much the only reason they were in it until that disaster (the fumbled kick return) near the end. 

 

As for Green Bay/L.A., I haven't checked up lately on L.A.'s injured list but I know Donald and Kupp both left the wildcard game hurt, those would be 2 HUGE blows to the Rams.

[majob]

2 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

Gotta disagree with the first statement there because If we're splitting hairs then Seattle's D only allowed 23, remember, 7 of the Rams' 30 was from a pick-6.  The kickoff fumble didn't do the Seattle Defense any favors either.  If you look at every Rams drive then Seattle's defense was pretty much the only reason they were in it until that disaster (the fumbled kick return) near the end. 

 

As for Green Bay/L.A., I haven't checked up lately on L.A.'s injured list but I know Donald and Kupp both left the wildcard game hurt, those would be 2 HUGE blows to the Rams.

Sources say Kupp will play in the divisional round at least

[skidmarkgn]

I'm terrified Pete's gonna go find a run only minded OC and we're right back at 2017.  DK's already proved to be a bit of a hot-head and I doubt he'll be happy in an offense like Pete wants then the snowball rolls.

Edited January 13, 2021 by skidmarkgn

[Zio_Sam87]

What about Deshaun Watson's desire to be traded after not being involved in GM hire? Is it true? As I said, he's the only QB I would take for replace Garoppolo... Mumble mumble.

[Matto_lsi]

13 minutes ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

What about Deshaun Watson's desire to be traded after not being involved in GM hire? Is it true? As I said, he's the only QB I would take for replace Garoppolo... Mumble mumble.

 

He was really pissed about not being part of that hire, so maybe.  This season, a number of players have thrown tantrums to get traded and it's worked so far, so it wouldn't be a surprise if that was his strategy.  There's a lot of teams that would probably like to take him, but if the Niners are one of them, I see that as a zero sum game.  Others might disagree, but I really don't think Watson would bring an overall improvement to the offense compared to Jimmy G.  But I'm sure opinions widely very on that hypothetical.

[slaaack1]

Texans Org already stated they would start thinking about trading Watson for 2 first + 2 second round picks + a player iirc.

This sounds more like "we wont trade him" tho... Maybe Miami would do it because they already have 2 firsts in the upcoming draft (one of em is Houstons pick lol) and could throw in Tua aswell if they are desperate but I only read this scenario coming from Fins Fans on reddit. 

[skidmarkgn]

2 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

He was really pissed about not being part of that hire, so maybe.  This season, a number of players have thrown tantrums to get traded and it's worked so far, so it wouldn't be a surprise if that was his strategy.  There's a lot of teams that would probably like to take him, but if the Niners are one of them, I see that as a zero sum game.  Others might disagree, but I really don't think Watson would bring an overall improvement to the offense compared to Jimmy G.  But I'm sure opinions widely very on that hypothetical.

 

Houston sports as a whole seems to be a dumpster fire right now.  Texans have Watt and Watson raging war from the inside, Rockets have the Harden debacle, Astros are never gonna shed their black cloud as long as the any of same players that cheated their way to a world series are on the squad... so... how's their hockey team?

[acasser]

5 hours ago, slaaack1 said:

Texans Org already stated they would start thinking about trading Watson for 2 first + 2 second round picks + a player iirc.

 

 

The Jets have that amount of draft capital and the cap space to accomodate Watson's contract.  But that's the sort of trade that would go against pretty much everything GM Joe Douglas has said about his philosophy of team-building.  And it's a trade I wouldn't make if I had to include the #2 pick with it because I don't think Watson is worth that high a trade price and his contract on top of that -- it would be too hard to build a good team around him without all those assets.

 

I'm okay with the Jets trading out of the #2 spot if they don't drop too far.  If they were to swap say with Atlanta (at #4) so the Falcons could get a quarterback to replace Matt Ryan, they'd still be able to get a really good player and probably a pretty nice incentive asset on top of that.

 

DeShaun Watson is pretty much stuck where he is.  I think his only options are to play out his contract as it is written, or to hold his breath until he's blue in the face a la Le'Veon Bell -- namely, refuse to report and sit out the season hoping to force Houston's hand.

 

The old rule was "players play, coaches coach, (general) managers manage (generally)".  Unless Watson wants to retire and purchase a chunk of the franchise, he needs to get back to his part of the equation and let the rest worry about itself.  Because he ain't getting $40 million/year doing anything else on God's Green Earth.

[Zio_Sam87]

11 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

He was really pissed about not being part of that hire, so maybe.  This season, a number of players have thrown tantrums to get traded and it's worked so far, so it wouldn't be a surprise if that was his strategy.  There's a lot of teams that would probably like to take him, but if the Niners are one of them, I see that as a zero sum game.  Others might disagree, but I really don't think Watson would bring an overall improvement to the offense compared to Jimmy G.  But I'm sure opinions widely very on that hypothetical.

 

At least he's not injuried as much as Jimmy ?

 

6 hours ago, acasser said:

 

The old rule was "players play, coaches coach, (general) managers manage (generally)".  Unless Watson wants to retire and purchase a chunk of the franchise, he needs to get back to his part of the equation and let the rest worry about itself.  Because he ain't getting $40 million/year doing anything else on God's Green Earth.

 

Watson didn't pretend to choose the GM/HC... Owner tell him he would be involved and then ignore him. So, you now, how do you trust again someone that said you something and then do the opposite?

[Matto_lsi]

1 hour ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

 

At least he's not injuried as much as Jimmy 

 

Sure, but the same was said about Alex Smith.  And granted, he's had his share of injuries (including one catastrophic one).  He started his career in SF riding the bench with that prolonged shoulder injury and we all thought he was going to be a bust and were pissed we missed out on Rodgers.  Then something changed when Harbaugh came to town, but that glimmer of hope went out when he got concussed during the Rams game.  Kaep came in and permanently replaced him in SF.  Then he went to KC and did really well for himself for a while.  Then Washington and was doing fine until that awful leg injury.  My point is, when he got injured in SF and got benched for Kaep, it worked out (for a year or two) for the organization, but how has it worked out in the long term?  Would the team have been better off keeping Smith and would he still be starting today?  It's possible.  Probably would have got more than 2 years out of him, anyway.  Considering the reality (and let's not get into details on why and how and all that), it probably would have been better for the team if he'd kept his job.  That's the reason I'm so skeptical of bringing in someone new just cause Jimmy was hurt this year.  And last year, when he wasn't hurt, Niners went to the SB.  So I'd say the upside of sticking by him is high, whereas the downside could potentially be really, really bad.  Even an established talent like Watson might not fit in SF at all.  There's no way to know.  And we know from interviews that the Niners locker room is 100% behind Jimmy, and that means a lot in a sport with such high emotions as football.  Plus Jimmy wasn't the only injury.  I'd love to see what happens without 3/4 of the team injured at least half the season.

 

As this guy says at the 2:28 mark - Niners are 'down to their 3rd string QB, 3rd string running back, 2nd string receiver, scout team defense, and back-up stadium' - lol, at least Kittle was back after 6 weeks of injury...

https://youtu.be/tqTfmVQyPtY?t=148

Edited January 14, 2021 by Matto_lsi

[Zio_Sam87]

26 minutes ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

Sure, but the same was said about Alex Smith.  And granted, he's had his share of injuries (including one catastrophic one).  He started his career in SF riding the bench with that prolonged shoulder injury and we all thought he was going to be a bust and were pissed we missed out on Rodgers.  Then something changed when Harbaugh came to town, but that glimmer of hope went out when he got concussed during the Rams game.  Kaep came in and permanently replaced him in SF.  Then he went to KC and did really well for himself for a while.  Then Washington and was doing fine until that awful leg injury.  My point is, when he got injured in SF and got benched for Kaep, it worked out (for a year or two) for the organization, but how has it worked out in the long term?  Would the team have been better off keeping Smith and would he still be starting today?  It's possible.  Probably would have got more than 2 years out of him, anyway.  Considering the reality (and let's not get into details on why and how and all that), it probably would have been better for the team if he'd kept his job.  That's the reason I'm so skeptical of bringing in someone new just cause Jimmy was hurt this year.  And last year, when he wasn't hurt, Niners went to the SB.  So I'd say the upside of sticking by him is high, whereas the downside could potentially be really, really bad.  Even an established talent like Watson might not fit in SF at all.  There's no way to know.  And we know from interviews that the Niners locker room is 100% behind Jimmy, and that means a lot in a sport with such high emotions as football.  Plus Jimmy wasn't the only injury.  I'd love to see what happens without 3/4 of the team injured at least half the season.

 

As this guy says at the 2:28 mark - Niners are 'down to their 3rd string QB, 3rd string running back, 2nd string receiver, scout team defense, and back-up stadium' - lol, at least Kittle was back after 6 weeks of injury...

https://youtu.be/tqTfmVQyPtY?t=148

 

Well, I'm more than happy with Jimmy and I'm not one of those whom want him out... I only say that if he has to be replaced (for contract matters, organization extravaganza or whatever) Watson is the only one QB "available" I would have in town to keep the team at an high level.

 

The guy forgot the O-Line randomly switched with guard playing center, left tackle playing right guard and whatever Kyle needed to do with personnel available ?

[starcrunch061]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:42 PM, slaaack1 said:

Texans Org already stated they would start thinking about trading Watson for 2 first + 2 second round picks + a player iirc.

This sounds more like "we wont trade him" tho... Maybe Miami would do it because they already have 2 firsts in the upcoming draft (one of em is Houstons pick lol) and could throw in Tua aswell if they are desperate but I only read this scenario coming from Fins Fans on reddit. 

 

Amen to that. Or maybe they're just hoping for another Herschel Walker-like deal.

[F1rstinFlight]

On 1/13/2021 at 3:30 PM, Matto_lsi said:

 

He was really pissed about not being part of that hire, so maybe.  This season, a number of players have thrown tantrums to get traded and it's worked so far, so it wouldn't be a surprise if that was his strategy.  There's a lot of teams that would probably like to take him, but if the Niners are one of them, I see that as a zero sum game.  Others might disagree, but I really don't think Watson would bring an overall improvement to the offense compared to Jimmy G.  But I'm sure opinions widely very on that hypothetical.

Are you serious? And you’re a 49ers fan? Do you ever watch Texans games? Deshaun Watson is literally the second most talented young quarterback in the league after Patrick Mahomes. Just compare Deshaun’s career stats with Jimmy G’s if you don’t believe me. Also keep in mind Deshaun has played in the dumpster fire that is the Texans for his whole career while Jimmy G went from arguably the best defensive coach of all time to arguably the best offensive coach currently in the league for his career.

 

Deshaun has played 6 more games than Jimmy G because Jimmy G can’t stay healthy which is another issue. They have a similar completion percentage but Deshaun has 6,500 more yards and literally double Jimmy G’s touchdowns with a similar number of interceptions. Deshaun also has a much higher passer rating. 
 

The 49ers have one of the best and most talented rosters in the entire league when fully healthy. They were by far the most dominant team last season and should’ve won the Super Bowl if it weren’t for Jimmy G. I’m telling you right now, if you put Deshaun on the 49ers then they’ll be the prohibitive favorites for years to come. Kyle Shanahan’s offense has the most creative running schemes I’ve ever seen in my life and it makes the quarterback’s job so much easier. You also have an insane defensive line and a talented secondary. You utterly annihilated my Packers twice last year because we just couldn’t compete with your running game and pash rush. You can argue that you might have to compromise the roster a bit to get Deshaun but that’s the only argument you have. I’m telling you the 49ers would be absolutely unstoppable with Deshaun. Jimmy G is overrated. Just look at the expressions on Kyle Shanahan’s face every time Jimmy G messes up. He uses such run-focused game plans because he has to mask Jimmy G’s weaknesses.

[Conker]

Coach hirings today

 

the Jacksonville Jaguars hired Urban Meyer https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jaguars-announce-urban-meyer-as-head-coach-this-is-a-great-day-for-jacksonville/

 

the New York Jets hired Robert Saleh https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-reach-agreement-to-hire-49ers-defensive-coordinator-robert-saleh-as-head-coach/

Edited January 15, 2021 by Conker

[majob]

Urban Meyer is going to be the biggest coaching bust of this decade. He couldn't hack it in the NFL before and he sure as hell won't hack it now

[F1rstinFlight]

11 minutes ago, majob said:

Urban Meyer is going to be the biggest coaching bust of this decade. He couldn't hack it in the NFL before and he sure as hell won't hack it now

I’m not saying he’s going to be successful because most college coaches that come to the NFL don’t do well. But when has Urban Meyer ever been an NFL coach before? Do you even know what you’re talking about? It seems like you’re thinking about Nick Saban lmao ?. 

[majob]

1 hour ago, ZJW44 said:

 

Yep, completely mixed the two up. Not completely sober right now

[Zio_Sam87]

4 hours ago, Conker said:

Coach hirings today

 

the Jacksonville Jaguars hired Urban Meyer https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jaguars-announce-urban-meyer-as-head-coach-this-is-a-great-day-for-jacksonville/

 

the New York Jets hired Robert Saleh https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-reach-agreement-to-hire-49ers-defensive-coordinator-robert-saleh-as-head-coach/

 

I'm going to sympathize for the Jets now! Saleh is a hell of a coach and I'm really going to miss him on niners defense... Hope he can do well in that messy organization
You should be very happy for the hire @acasser!!

[Matto_lsi]

9 hours ago, ZJW44 said:

Are you serious? And you’re a 49ers fan? Do you ever watch Texans games? Deshaun Watson is literally the second most talented young quarterback in the league after Patrick Mahomes. Just compare Deshaun’s career stats with Jimmy G’s if you don’t believe me. Also keep in mind Deshaun has played in the dumpster fire that is the Texans for his whole career while Jimmy G went from arguably the best defensive coach of all time to arguably the best offensive coach currently in the league for his career.

 

Deshaun has played 6 more games than Jimmy G because Jimmy G can’t stay healthy which is another issue. They have a similar completion percentage but Deshaun has 6,500 more yards and literally double Jimmy G’s touchdowns with a similar number of interceptions. Deshaun also has a much higher passer rating. 
 

The 49ers have one of the best and most talented rosters in the entire league when fully healthy. They were by far the most dominant team last season and should’ve won the Super Bowl if it weren’t for Jimmy G. I’m telling you right now, if you put Deshaun on the 49ers then they’ll be the prohibitive favorites for years to come. Kyle Shanahan’s offense has the most creative running schemes I’ve ever seen in my life and it makes the quarterback’s job so much easier. You also have an insane defensive line and a talented secondary. You utterly annihilated my Packers twice last year because we just couldn’t compete with your running game and pash rush. You can argue that you might have to compromise the roster a bit to get Deshaun but that’s the only argument you have. I’m telling you the 49ers would be absolutely unstoppable with Deshaun. Jimmy G is overrated. Just look at the expressions on Kyle Shanahan’s face every time Jimmy G messes up. He uses such run-focused game plans because he has to mask Jimmy G’s weaknesses.

 

Stats don't mean much.  Different coaches, different teammates, different opponents.  Jimmy is far from perfect, and I'm not nearly as onboard the Shanahan train as you are (his 4th quarter failures in both SBs are unforgivable), but switching out a QB is a big gamble.  Unless the one you have is garbage, it's a big risk.  If the team isn't behind him, if the offensive scheme isn't one he's comfortable with, if his salary means surrounding him with scrubs so the offense becomes a lame duck, etc... There's a lot of things that could go wrong.  I'm not against having him if that's an option (which it really doesn't look like it will be), but I don't see it as much of an improvement, especially considering the cuts for salary cap space they'd have to make to accommodate him.

 

Also, how do you blame Jimmy for the SB loss?  He didn't allow the Chiefs to score 21 unanswered points in the last 5 mins of the 4th quarter.  He didn't call only 1 run on the last 3 Niners drives of the game.  That's on the D and the coach.  And no, his last minute interception when they were down 2 scores and playing desperation ball was not indicative of anything.  Shanahan was to blame for that 4th quarter meltdown, just like how he was to blame for the Falcons meltdown in his prior SB loss.  And ironically, despite his run plays being deemed so creative, it was his lack of run calling in the second half of both SBs that led to both losses. And he's always been a run-heavy play caller, that has nothing to do with Jimmy or masking anything.  He certainly wasn't masking anything for Jimmy when he was in Atlanta, or during that 1-10 start in 2017 before Jimmy (and 5-0 finish with Jimmy).

 

If you think Watson is the better QB, that's fine.  You're probably right.  But that doesn't mean he can be shoe-horned into the Niners offense and do great things coming out the gate.  In the last 3 seasons Jimmy has been healthy for only one, and that was a winning season with a deep playoff run that only fell apart in the final minutes of a SB that was strangely and oddly poorly coached in the home stretch by a coach known for strange and odd play calling in the final stretch of SBs.  I'm choosing to remain hopeful that his injuries in 2018 and 2020 are behind him, and if he can remain healthy, I'm also choosing to stay positive in regards to what he can do leading the team.  I've been a Niners fan for over 30 years, and seen plenty of injury-prone QBs *cough Montana cough Young cough* do great things for this team.  The last few times they cast aside their injured QBs prematurely, they went on to find success elsewhere and their much-touted replacements ended up being duds.  I'd hate to see that happen again.

[acasser]

4 hours ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

 

I'm going to sympathize for the Jets now! Saleh is a hell of a coach and I'm really going to miss him on niners defense... Hope he can do well in that messy organization
You should be very happy for the hire @acasser!!

 

I'm about as pleased as I can be.  Obviously, the coach is just one of many things that need overhauling with the Jets, but Saleh was pretty much at the top of my list when considering the makeup of the candidate pool.

 

Now comes the hard part, such as reviving the fortunes of a franchise that hasn't been to a Super Bowl since before man first walked on the moon.