Starfield (September 6, 2023)

[BrandedBerserk]

30 fps with all that stuttering... big yikes. 

[Rozalia1]

Quote

"I think it'll come as no surprise, given our previous games, what we go for," Howard said. "Always these huge, open worlds, fully dynamic, hyper detail where anything can happen. And we do want to do that. It's 4K in the X. It's 1440 on the S. We do lock it at 30, because we want that fidelity, we want all that stuff. We don't want to sacrifice any of it.
 

"Fortunately in this one, we've got it running great. It's often running way above that. Sometimes it's 60. But on the consoles, we do lock it because we prefer the consistency, where you're not even thinking about it.

 

If Howard is telling the truth (he likely isn't) then why is there no 40 frames option? As far as I'm aware Xbox as a whole has yet to do it which... why not? Can the "most powerful console ever" not handle it?

 

Don't get me wrong. In the past I've not cared if a game is 30/60, but these days a lot of people are using OLEDs which have issues with 30 frames. Going up to at least 40 frames fixes it for those people if their OLED can do 120.

[RedDevil757]

Reminded me of No Mans Lie so yeah I'll be staying away from it.

[Dangisuckatgamin]

It's sad they won't just turn off raytracing and lower shadows/some textures to make games run at 60 for those that choose to play in that. They lose sales choosing only 30.

[TJ_Solo]

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

If Howard is telling the truth (he likely isn't) then why is there no 40 frames option? As far as I'm aware Xbox as a whole has yet to do it which... why not? Can the "most powerful console ever" not handle it?

 

Don't get me wrong. In the past I've not cared if a game is 30/60, but these days a lot of people are using OLEDs which have issues with 30 frames. Going up to at least 40 frames fixes it for those people if their OLED can do 120.

 

 

Because console games for years have been aimed at TV users. That group deals with TV frequencies such as 30 and 6,  then 120 and 240. 

40fps is a weird middle ground being chased by people with monitors(another issue with gamers that have TVs without VRR/freesync) and their half solutions to performance issues. 

 

3 hours ago, BrandedBerserk said:

30 fps with all that stuttering... big yikes. 

 

Was the gaming even being shown on an Xbox running at 30fps? 

 

[Slava]

Many people expected 30 frames on console, me included. The footage didn't look like a locked 30, it felt like it was all over the place, sometimes above. But it's probably from the PC version. If they said it was Series X footage, then I missed it.

 

The framerate opinions are always fascinating, so I dove into the dumpster (twitter) and scrolled for a bit to see how xbox/bethesda fans are reacting to the framerate news. I think most of them don't care. Probably a matter of being used to how Bethesda games usually run and the complexity of Starfield. "It's on Game Pass, so you can at least try it anyway" is one of the takes I saw. Still, a significant share, from what I've seen, doesn't want to deal with it as long as it can't do 60.

 

And while I'm not even against games running at 30, the way some people justify it was funny. "If Tears of the Kingdom is 30 frames, and gets 10/10, then Starfield shouldn't be criticized for it either", while the hardware is not even remotely comparable. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Slava

[Oberlin1694]

I thought I’d be super bothered by now that this isn’t coming to PlayStation but I’m really not.

 

Nothing that’s been shown even slightly impresses me. The gameplay looks bland and repetitive, the fact that the majority of the planets are procedurally generated ala No Man’s Sky makes me believe they’ll basically just be there and be empty.

 

The game looks ugly and the animations frankly still look dreadful as is the usual with Bethesda. And even funnier is the fact they’ve locked the game at 30FPS on consoles. I don’t know about others but I physically can’t play games at 30FPS anymore, they just feel so chuggy.

 

It honestly looks set to continue the track record of each Bethesda game being far worse than the last. Let Xbox have it honestly, I’ll take Final Fantasy over this trash any day.

On 13/11/2022 at 8:23 PM, Afura_33 said:

It's breaking my hard that it doesn't come for playstation lol, I was waiting for this game

Meh, it’ll come to PlayStation by the end of 2024, if they want to make any kind of profit with the game it kind of has to.

 

They're going to make barely any money off of this game due to the fact it’s going straight into Game Pass. And this isn’t like most other Day one titles that either are multiplatform or lower budget. I’d imagine the budget on Starfield is astronomical and the sheer loss they’ll make from it not being on the console with a 3:1 install base is ridiculous.

 

If it doesn’t come to PlayStation by the end of 2024 I’ll eat my hat as it’s just not sustainable for it to be Xbox and PC only and on GamePass Day 1, it’ll likely end up earning back less than 10% of the budget it cost to make and while some would argue that wouldn’t matter to Microsoft, it’ll end up painting the picture within gaming media that the game was a flop based on its sales numbers. 
 

I just don’t see Xbox having many exclusives going forward as due to Game Pass they’re making too much of a net-loss and it’s going to quickly catch up to them. Nobody on Xbox is buying Starfield at launch for full price when they can pay £1 for Game Pass and 100% finish it in a month of play. I just don’t see it happening

 

Xbox is purely focused now on trying to maintain appearances, but the console is a flop and sales of games on it are also a flop.

 

It says it all that bar Starfield, Avowed, Forza and Fable every SINGLE game shown during their showcase is also coming to PlayStation. They just pay the big bucks for those 48hrs where they can look as if they’re getting Persona, Yakuza, Payday etc. exclusively. 
 

i imagine Series X/S will be the last Xbox console. If I worked at Microsoft as a higher up it would be anyways as the console’s an utterly embarassing failure on every front compared to the competition in the PlayStation 5 and even the god damn Switch.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Oberlin1694

[Gefro-On-Defro]

Thinking of getting an Xbox for this, was wondering, is there a site like this for achievements? And can anyone Libby me there please

[Rozalia1]

8 hours ago, TJ_Solo said:

Because console games for years have been aimed at TV users. That group deals with TV frequencies such as 30 and 6,  then 120 and 240. 

40fps is a weird middle ground being chased by people with monitors(another issue with gamers that have TVs without VRR/freesync) and their half solutions to performance issues. 

 

I'm having a hard time working out your point beyond 40 frames being weird to some people at first. More people have OLEDs and 120 capable TVs, a number that will only go up, and for those people offering only 30 frames is simply not good as OLEDs do not play nice with that. 40 frames in that situation makes a world of difference, and in fact considering how much 60 often has to sacrifice visually, games that have 40 frames are often the best way to play as you get good frame rate (diminishing returns as you go up) and good graphics.

 

4 hours ago, Slava said:

Many people expected 30 frames on console, me included. The footage didn't look like a locked 30, it felt like it was all over the place, sometimes above. But it's probably from the PC version. If they said it was Series X footage, then I missed it.

 

The framerate opinions are always fascinating, so I dove into the dumpster (twitter) and scrolled for a bit to see how xbox/bethesda fans are reacting to the framerate news. I think most of them don't care. Probably a matter of being used to how Bethesda games usually run and the complexity of Starfield. "It's on Game Pass, so you can at least try it anyway" is one of the takes I saw. Still, a significant share, from what I've seen, doesn't want to deal with it as long as it can't do 60.

 

And while I'm not even against games running at 30, the way some people justify it was funny. "If Tears of the Kingdom is 30 frames, and gets 10/10, then Starfield shouldn't be criticized for it either", while the hardware is not even remotely comparable. 

 

Be careful taking anything from the likes of social media. Place is infested with Microsoft's astroturfing.

 

Something to remember that gets easily forgotten is that according to those sorts 60 frames was a big deal and 30 frames was the kiss of death, back when they were spreading their FUD (before the consoles were released) that the PS5 was a mess and was largely going to do 30 compared to the mighty Series X's 60. Heck, the Series S was going to be outperforming the PS5 eventually. Now that big Xbox games even after massive delays apparently struggle to get to 60 so they have to put it at 30? It no longer matters.

 

I saw that too. Tears of the Kingdom is 30 frames = GOTY. Starfield is 30 frames = unforgiveable, something framed like that. The reality of course being that Tears is on the Switch, an old system that isn't anywhere close to current gen, and so no one expected it to run at 60. People are instead actually impressed it runs as well as it does on 30. Starfield meanwhile is on the "most powerful console in the world", so you expect that it should be able to hit 60. Heck, as I said, why aren't they even going with 40? Not doing so is not a good look, especially after Redfall was also not able to.

 

4 hours ago, Oberlin1694 said:

It honestly looks set to continue the track record of each Bethesda game being far worse than the last. Let Xbox have it honestly, I’ll take Final Fantasy over this trash any day.

Meh, it’ll come to PlayStation by the end of 2024, if they want to make any kind of profit with the game it kind of has to.

 

They're going to make barely any money off of this game due to the fact it’s going straight into Game Pass. And this isn’t like most other Day one titles that either are multiplatform or lower budget. I’d imagine the budget on Starfield is astronomical and the sheer loss they’ll make from it not being on the console with a 3:1 install base is ridiculous.

 

If it doesn’t come to PlayStation by the end of 2024 I’ll eat my hat as it’s just not sustainable for it to be Xbox and PC only and on GamePass Day 1, it’ll likely end up earning back less than 10% of the budget it cost to make and while some would argue that wouldn’t matter to Microsoft, it’ll end up painting the picture within gaming media that the game was a flop based on its sales numbers. 
 

I just don’t see Xbox having many exclusives going forward as due to Game Pass they’re making too much of a net-loss and it’s going to quickly catch up to them. Nobody on Xbox is buying Starfield at launch for full price when they can pay £1 for Game Pass and 100% finish it in a month of play. I just don’t see it happening

 

Xbox is purely focused now on trying to maintain appearances, but the console is a flop and sales of games on it are also a flop.

 

It says it all that bar Starfield, Avowed, Forza and Fable every SINGLE game shown during their showcase is also coming to PlayStation. They just pay the big bucks for those 48hrs where they can look as if they’re getting Persona, Yakuza, Payday etc. exclusively. 
 

i imagine Series X/S will be the last Xbox console. If I worked at Microsoft as a higher up it would be anyways as the console’s an utterly embarassing failure on every front compared to the competition in the PlayStation 5 and even the god damn Switch.

 

You seem to be under the impression that they need to make money. Xbox has been a money pit from the start and with gamepass it is only more so now. As long as Microsoft believes it has a chance of getting a monopoly in the future then Starfield losing them even hundreds of millions is irrelevant. 

 

As for the media calling it a flop... have you not been paying attention? Who in the media holds Microsoft to the fire and demands they show numbers besides revenue and MAU? Who even tells Microsoft to not kid everyone with those numbers they show because they're cooked? Nobody. Instead they'll tell you that Xbox's high revenue, built off all their buyouts and including their PC income, means the console is a success.

[ziggypossum]

 

 

Quote

- Skyrim has sold more than 60 million copies, making it the seventh best-selling video game of all time

 

[craig_obviously]

I have yet to see anything that gives me the impression I am missing out...

[DrBloodmoney]

I think it looks pretty good from what they've shown.

Not mind blowing, but a good "one of those."

 

If it were on PS5 I'd probably play it... but it's not killing me that it isn't, and it doesn't look so good that I'd need to run out and get and Xbox or anything.

 

I do wonder if maybe Bethesda is pushing against prevailing winds with focussing the marketing on how big it is though.

Games like The Outer Worlds and The Forgotten City have kind of proven the benefit of making this style of game, but smaller and deeper - that when you go for quality rather than quantity, and have a smaller number of more interesting, more variable quests and locations, you can make a much more focussed and interesting game, than when you just try to up the scale.

 

It's the whole No Man's Sky vs Outer Wilds thing - do you want a game that is a mile wide and an inch deep, or one that is an inch wide, but a mile deep?

I get the feeling that the general consensus is that the Outer Wilds model is the better option of the two? Certainly for me it is, now.

 

I certainly enjoyed Skyrim and Fallout when they were big, and enjoyed that hugeness, and the sense of scale...

...but it comes with a lot of compromises.

 

 I went back to Skyrim recently, and enjoyed it...  but I played The Outer Worlds immediately afterwards, and TBH, the more focussed, "less wide, but more deep" style felt a lot more interesting to me now.

 

Maybe just my personal preferences have changed...

...but I don't tend to see games selling themselves on scale as much anymore - and consumers are less forgiving of the kind of jank that doing so can often end up necessitating.

Edited June 12, 2023 by DrBloodmoney

[Feral]

Starfield looks cool, yes it borrows things from Mass Effect and No Man’s Sky but so what. I’m keen for this game.

 

It would be a day one for me if I already owned an Xbox and Spidey wasn’t out 6 weeks later. So might not get it til next year.

[cy1999aek_maik]

This game is the most predictable flop since cyberpunk. Stevie Wonder could see that. It's going to be a shallow and underwhelming mess. Red flags keep popping up. The uncanny facial animations, non existing gameplay loop, weird combat that almost doesn't feel like actual gameplay, 30fps,Todd Howard's comments about not sacrificing fidelity for fps, when the game looks sub par to begin with. Save your money 

[Rozalia1]

9 hours ago, cy1999aek_maik said:

This game is the most predictable flop since cyberpunk. Stevie Wonder could see that. It's going to be a shallow and underwhelming mess. Red flags keep popping up. The uncanny facial animations, non existing gameplay loop, weird combat that almost doesn't feel like actual gameplay, 30fps,Todd Howard's comments about not sacrificing fidelity for fps, when the game looks sub par to begin with. Save your money 

 

Outside it being a Redfall level mess that is indefensible, a lot will go into making sure that the narrative is that is both good and a success. Gameplay issues will be defended with "it is Bethesda, what do you expect?" and "no game does what Bethesda's RPGs do". Remember, you can stack 20 sandwiches in one place and they'll be there if you return later (wouldn't if you want to be realistic such things not get cleaned up?), and these things are well worth massive performance hits.

 

As for successful, nothing with the exception of Redfall has been allowed to be a failure publicly for a long time, and they were forced with Redfall as it was just that bad and obvious. Remember X million people will play it on gamepass even if most will have gone after a short period. X amount of hours will be played by the game's players. X amount of enemies killed. So forth. Money made compared to money spent? Who the hell even cares, that isn't how you judge success. As such, unless they come out with hard numbers regarding the game we'll know instantly that they game was a failure, but they'll never admit it unless again, it is a Redfall level disaster.

[cy1999aek_maik]

48 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

Outside it being a Redfall level mess that is indefensible, a lot will go into making sure that the narrative is that is both good and a success. Gameplay issues will be defended with "it is Bethesda, what do you expect?" and "no game does what Bethesda's RPGs do". Remember, you can stack 20 sandwiches in one place and they'll be there if you return later (wouldn't if you want to be realistic such things not get cleaned up?), and these things are well worth massive performance hits.

 

As for successful, nothing with the exception of Redfall has been allowed to be a failure publicly for a long time, and they were forced with Redfall as it was just that bad and obvious. Remember X million people will play it on gamepass even if most will have gone after a short period. X amount of hours will be played by the game's players. X amount of enemies killed. So forth. Money made compared to money spent? Who the hell even cares, that isn't how you judge success. As such, unless they come out with hard numbers regarding the game we'll know instantly that they game was a failure, but they'll never admit it unless again, it is a Redfall level disaster.

Hmmm maybe 5 years ago I'd agree with you. I've noticed lately there's been a rise in people speaking against these circlejerky gaming opinions, when it comes to games like skyrim or the witcher. I never liked those games and I was told to shut up whenever I'd say anything, but lately it seems it's a bit more popular of an opinion. 

 

When it comes to Bethesda it is widely acknowledged that their games are a technical mess but people still like what's underneath. When it comes to xbox games, there's extra scrutiny, because they haven't released shit since the series x came out and are falling behind the ps5 in terms of games, which I would argue is also suffering from a a drought of games but clearly not as badly. Other than the xbox bootlicking squad, I don't think the general gaming audience will cut bethesda or xbox any slack. Even Phil Spencer himself has to come out and apologize whenever they release one of their shitty stinker games. Sure, they'll boast about 'player engagement' and all that, which will be funny to see if the game falls flat. 

[Rozalia1]

3 hours ago, cy1999aek_maik said:

Hmmm maybe 5 years ago I'd agree with you. I've noticed lately there's been a rise in people speaking against these circlejerky gaming opinions, when it comes to games like skyrim or the witcher. I never liked those games and I was told to shut up whenever I'd say anything, but lately it seems it's a bit more popular of an opinion. 

 

When it comes to Bethesda it is widely acknowledged that their games are a technical mess but people still like what's underneath. When it comes to xbox games, there's extra scrutiny, because they haven't released shit since the series x came out and are falling behind the ps5 in terms of games, which I would argue is also suffering from a a drought of games but clearly not as badly. Other than the xbox bootlicking squad, I don't think the general gaming audience will cut bethesda or xbox any slack. Even Phil Spencer himself has to come out and apologize whenever they release one of their shitty stinker games. Sure, they'll boast about 'player engagement' and all that, which will be funny to see if the game falls flat. 

 

I agree with you on those games. Given them a chance and all, but just not taken to them. 

 

Bethesda lost some goodwill with Fallout 4 and then 76 really hurt them. You're right in it is possible that no slack will be given for Starfield... but we'll see. As for Xbox getting extra scrutiny... I mean, relatively speaking they have been lately yes, but overall? Different matter entirely as people have gone very light on them for years when there was no reason to do so. It has taken like what? 10 years of "next year will be it. The greatest year for Xbox where things finally come together" for the majority of people to lose patience with them and see such words from Microsoft as a joke. 

 

As I said though, Xbox will not allow the narrative of Starfield being a failure to take. Look at that insider who mentioned that Hi-Fi Rush was a failure for Microsoft. Instantly responded to by Microsoft that Hi-Fi Rush was a success based off all their internal metrics (no word on what those were naturally) and that was that. Microsoft can declare Starfield a success off zero metrics, so it will be a success, unless again, it is such a massive mess like Redfall that lying is pointless. The problem of course is that while you can fake it that you're putting out successful games, if the games aren't successful then you don't build up real momentum hence why the Series line of consoles of theirs has been falling apart. Their astroturfing army has been working hard to put forward the view that everything is dandy and great, but even if they can fool some people into believing that perception, said perception is not reality, hence why we've seen the Series line doing worse than even the Xbox One.

[ziggypossum]

 

[Oberlin1694]

On 14/06/2023 at 3:14 AM, cy1999aek_maik said:

This game is the most predictable flop since cyberpunk. Stevie Wonder could see that. It's going to be a shallow and underwhelming mess. Red flags keep popping up. The uncanny facial animations, non existing gameplay loop, weird combat that almost doesn't feel like actual gameplay, 30fps,Todd Howard's comments about not sacrificing fidelity for fps, when the game looks sub par to begin with. Save your money 

It’s already guaranteed to not even come close to breaking even due to the exclusivity. It’ll need to sell a ridiculous amount of copies to even BREAK EVEN. And it won’t hit those numbers purely off of Xbox and PC sales, it’s going to sell even worse when the majority of Xbox players gamed the Game Pass system to get like 3 years of it for £1. So they’re not exactly going to make any money through Game Pass.

 

Last I read I believe for every Xbox sold, 5 PlayStation’s were sold. So even if EVERY  Xbox owner buys the game at release for £70, it’s still going to be working at a huge loss.

 

Ah well, it’s what Microsoft deserves for making a game that was being primarily developed on PS and was going to be a port job for Xbox/PC, an Xbox exclusive. It deserves to flop. And the exclusivity deal left a bad taste in many’s mouths so I’d imagine 7 and 8/10’s across the board as a lot of reviewers will refuse to grade it higher as a matter of principal.

 

The game doesn’t actually look good either, very generic, boring looking world, bad combat, dreadful animations and 30 FOS. I predict between 77 and 83 on Metacritic at max. Which will be a huge blow to Microsoft as this needs to hit the ‘Best Games of All Time’ lists for it to have been worth the disgusting gamble they took. 
 

Like compared to the offerings Sony puts out this needs to be an absolute smash. I don’t think it’s going to be 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Oberlin1694

[MidnightDragon]

40 minutes ago, Oberlin1694 said:

It’s already guaranteed to not even come close to breaking even due to the exclusivity. It’ll need to sell a ridiculous amount of copies to even BREAK EVEN. And it won’t hit those numbers purely off of Xbox and PC sales, it’s going to sell even worse when the majority of Xbox players gamed the Game Pass system to get like 3 years of it for £1. So they’re not exactly going to make any money through Game Pass.

 

Last I read I believe for every Xbox sold, 5 PlayStation’s were sold. So even if EVERY  Xbox owner buys the game at release for £70, it’s still going to be working at a huge loss.

 

Ah well, it’s what Microsoft deserves for making a game that was being primarily developed on PS and was going to be a port job for Xbox/PC, an Xbox exclusive. It deserves to flop. And the exclusivity deal left a bad taste in many’s mouths so I’d imagine 7 and 8/10’s across the board as a lot of reviewers will refuse to grade it higher as a matter of principal.

 

The game doesn’t actually look good either, very generic, boring looking world, bad combat, dreadful animations and 30 FOS. I predict between 77 and 83 on Metacritic at max. Which will be a huge blow to Microsoft as this needs to hit the ‘Best Games of All Time’ lists for it to have been worth the disgusting gamble they took. 
 

Like compared to the offerings Sony puts out this needs to be an absolute smash. I don’t think it’s going to be 

Like you said, Game Pass isn’t gonna help numbers.

[Oberlin1694]

36 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

Like you said, Game Pass isn’t gonna help numbers.

I don’t think their ABK is going to help them either as documents and the like are now coming out that paint Microsoft in an extremely bad light. So watch this space, I have no doubt we’ll be getting Starfield by Christmas next year and we’ll be seeing no further Bethesda exclusives.

 

 

I hope at least 

[MidnightDragon]

3 minutes ago, Oberlin1694 said:

I don’t think their ABK is going to help them either as documents and the like are now coming out that paint Microsoft in an extremely bad light. So watch this space, I have no doubt we’ll be getting Starfield by Christmas next year and we’ll be seeing no further Bethesda exclusives.

 

 

I hope at least 

Yea, I know the documents, but you’re more optimistic than I am.  

Edited June 21, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[Oberlin1694]

22 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

Yea, I know the documents, but you’re more optimistic than I am.  

I mean a document stating they’re purely buying these studios as they want to basically put Sony out of business? If those documents are used it won’t just destroy this deal. It’ll destroy every future deal they make. And potentially all past ones

[MidnightDragon]

6 minutes ago, Oberlin1694 said:

I mean a document stating they’re purely buying these studios as they want to basically put Sony out of business? If those documents are used it won’t just destroy this deal. It’ll destroy every future deal they make. And potentially all past ones

I know what you were referring to. Still, you’re more optimistic than I am.

Edited June 21, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[ziggypossum]