Trophy Leaderboards are Pointless

[esstee11]

7 minutes ago, VegaMan-X4 said:

Went way over your head.

Ah you opted for a case of sarcasm via written text.. always a dangerous road to expect that to be conveyed without tone or expression.. hey ho 

[Dry]

Not sure why this topic falls under the premium members subforum.

[Laxus]

7 minutes ago, Dry said:

Not sure why this topic falls under the premium members subforum.

You are right lol. Title needs to be changed to Leaderboards... just premium sadness.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Laxus-0

[CommanderClif]

4 minutes ago, Dry said:

Not sure why this topic falls under the premium members subforum.

Well since you asked. 

Seemed appropriate to air my grievance amongst the smaller audience who have elected to be premium. 

"Off Topic", "The Stadium" and various platform and game specific sections wouldn't have bee appropriate. Maybe "Site help, issues & feedback" but not looking for help or that chance is possible, just voicing a lament for the old days. 

 

And to clear up any misconception with original post, i'm perfectly fine that the leaderboards are shite now. Having PSNP+ hide the stats is an added bonus of out of site out of mind. 

[willows_blessing]

i have never once cared about the leaderboards because the metric of getting to the top is nothing about skill or prowess or anything, just excess money

[Jerry_Appleby]

I was just reminiscing how before shovelware came out, I was 14th in Canada and top 400 in the world. Now I am 87th and top 2800 respectively because of it. 

 

Feels like a kick in the balls that basically all your hard work for the past dozen years gets wiped out within a year.

I decided to look at the PS3 leaderboards because shovelware didn't exist back then, and I'm currently 6th in Canada and top 150, so I have improved a bit in terms of playing "real" games.

 

Anyway I always love to see discussions about rarity leaderboards, but what if a leaderboard was created that only removes trophies above 99%?

I just checked the games list, and there are over 61 pages of games at or above 99% average completion! That's over 3050 games with all of their trophies above 99%. That's insane! Even removing just the 99% trophies would take a good 30,000 trophies away from the biggest of shovelware whores!

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jerry_Appleby
Duplicate post

[Justin__Harris]

1 hour ago, esstee11 said:

How do you feel about someone with both?

 

Firstly I agree leaderboards are pointless rubbish now. There was a time when I enjoyed LB chasing,  but I'm well over that now like most of us.

 

And to the other guy, like I said how do you feel about SMB and ezpz? Cuz I always find this invisible gaming moral line to be strange. I have no care for what anyone might think of my profile (which has both), not something that bothers me, but for myself I know I am a passionate gamer and so who would play anything. For all different reasons. The good, the bad, the short, the long, the easy, the difficult, love for them all.

The great games for wonderful memorable experiences, the shovelware for a time I enjoyed the ping, the difficult for the exciting challenge, the easy for relaxation 💜

Honestly, how I feel is ultimately irrelevant. There are plenty of people who have a well-rounded mix of shovelware plats and good games. Hakoom is a good example of this. He has thousands of garbage games, but even he takes the time to put in the effort to play good games from time to time. I guess I would say it's more about anyone who holds themselves to a high level of "accomplishment" and brags about it would be the people I roll my eyes at. Or people that have the obsession to 100% games but can't even do it themselves. I've had a lot of people over the years offer me money to do their individual trophies for them. I don't see too many people doing that anymore, but I'm not on the forums as much as I used to be.

 

And I'm no saint either. I've boosted and cheesed multiplayer games (although I'm firm about MP trophies shouldn't be in single-player games and will die on that hill). I have a couple of 1-second auto-pop platinums under my belt with Spider-Man Remastered, Resident Evil 2 and Resident Evil 3 for PS5. I have three games that may or may not be considered shovelware with the Midnight trilogy on PS4 (36 Fragments of Midnight, Midnight Deluxe, Birthday of Midnight)—although I remember reading the forums and some people saying they had a hard time getting the platinum on those games... I have no idea how, but it's not nice to judge the skill levels of players even if I consider something ridiculously easy. The most egregious platinum I have was for this PSVR game called ArtPulse that I got in under 20 minutes with the sole intention of just getting through it for a quick platinum because I wanted to finish another game for my 125th milestone. It's a shame about the latter, as it's not really even shovelware. It's a game meant to have fun and be creative, but I didn't treat it like that at all. To me, it annoys me probably because I actually take pride in accomplishing things when I can and think people should play games that are actually meant to be fun, and not made just for an easy platinum. And when I see people playing games I know they likely give no Fs about, I think it's just a shame.

 

We're all guilty of this in some way or another. Even if I don't get the point of shovelware games for the sole purpose of padding your overall number count and get annoyed when people actively cheese or cheat certain types of trophies, who cares? But I see your point in how I'm making the assumption that shovelware, platinum-obsessed players aren't passionate gamers. I recant that general statement. 🖖🏿

[Banana_Sausage47]

I feel ya. I never was fixated on the leaderboards but I had a goal of reaching the top 50 in the UK. I finally achieved it and reached rank 49 then the shovelware pandemic hit. I'm now down to rank 150 but honestly I don't even check the leaderboards anymore. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Banana_Sausage47

[Mellenthin]

31 minutes ago, Jerry_Appleby said:

I was just reminiscing how before shovelware came out, I was 14th in Canada and top 400 in the world. Now I am 87th and top 2800 respectively because of it. 

 

Feels like a kick in the balls that basically all your hard work for the past dozen years gets wiped out within a year.

I decided to look at the PS3 leaderboards because shovelware didn't exist back then, and I'm currently 6th in Canada and top 150, so I have improved a bit in terms of playing "real" games.

 

Anyway I always love to see discussions about rarity leaderboards, but what if a leaderboard was created that only removes trophies above 99%?

I just checked the games list, and there are over 61 pages of games at or above 99% average completion! That's over 3050 games with all of their trophies above 99%. That's insane! Even removing just the 99% trophies would take a good 30,000 trophies away from the biggest of shovelware whores!

 

Vote for me in the next election and I promise that I will make proper changes.😉

[ChouShirakawa]

5 hours ago, willows_blessing said:

i have never once cared about the leaderboards because the metric of getting to the top is nothing about skill or prowess or anything, just excess money

Fully agree with that.

[Prometheous101]

11 hours ago, fbdbh said:

I find the PS3 and Vita leaderboards still fun to navigate, hackers tend to creep in, but they’re filtered out quickly.

VR leaderboard is even more worthy.

It was never infected with showelware and hackers don't happen that often.

PS3 and Vita are easy to hack with Vita still having plenty of old Ratalike-a games.

I do love VR, but I think objectively it's the best leaderboard to check regularly.

Half of the people in the top 100 VR leaderboards aren't even going for the leaderboard. They are just playing games.

[JAK-KRIEG]

I had a little break from the leaderboards recently for about a month I rejoined and saw on my national leaderboard the "new" and then all the red arrows down below me. For a brief time I wonder what some of the people below me were thinking especially the shovelware riders, "no way dude I spent 100s and now I drop places wtf" I had a little chuckle to myself. Anyways this leaderboard is not to be taken seriously, anyone who does I pity them.

[Jelly Soup]

I see leaderboards as an interesting curiosity. Not something I'm going to focus on, but if I'm updating my/a profile, might as well check my position. Have a 'ha, interesting' moment and move on.

 

This has been talked about before, but the leaderboards as they stand are only useless in that there is a barrier for entry past a certain point. Even devaluing certain games has little effect when the sheer number of trophies that can pour into any profile is so vast. The delisting of titles only benefits people playing the numbers game because they now have some achievements that anyone late to the party are locked out of. The top of the top is a pure rat race and every speck of cheese counts. But I don't think it's fair to dismiss it out of hand. The people who enjoy participating should be allowed to do so.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jelly Soup
Damn but I get extra wordy when I'm under slept.

[Laxus]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Appleby said:

I was just reminiscing how before shovelware came out, I was 14th in Canada and top 400 in the world. Now I am 87th and top 2800 respectively because of it. 

 

Feels like a kick in the balls that basically all your hard work for the past dozen years gets wiped out within a year.

I decided to look at the PS3 leaderboards because shovelware didn't exist back then, and I'm currently 6th in Canada and top 150, so I have improved a bit in terms of playing "real" games.

 

Anyway I always love to see discussions about rarity leaderboards, but what if a leaderboard was created that only removes trophies above 99%?

I just checked the games list, and there are over 61 pages of games at or above 99% average completion! That's over 3050 games with all of their trophies above 99%. That's insane! Even removing just the 99% trophies would take a good 30,000 trophies away from the biggest of shovelware whores!

Even with shovelware now,  your dedication to your account was not a waste. Don't call it a waste when something like this is way out of your control. Think about it like this. Being at place 87th while playing just normal games is a far better outcome than being in the top ten and playing literally trash games. I will not believe for one second that those guys at the top are really enjoying in what they do. Maybe they do, but that is really hard to believe.

 

You have a great account btw. but you shouldn't have started saints row lol.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Nelson_]

Lol at that letter rumor from sony saying it would ban shovelware, already knew it would never happen, now we even have the jumping food memory lmao 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Nelson_

[D-E-U-S-X]

17 hours ago, Baker said:

I came up with a brilliant idea. We can make an extra leaderboard where games above a certain rarity won’t count. 
 

We could call it a rarity leaderboard. 

 

A dream would come true. As long as the classic leaderboard exists, I'm happy with not being in last place.

[mega-tallica]

Most leaderboards eventually go this way I feel like. You get the people that dedicate their entire lives to getting higher on some arbitrary leaderboard that it makes it so average Joe's can't even begin to compete with them and ultimately makes them pointless for most people to even try. 

 

I used to be a competitive Rock Band player back in the day when I was young and had no life basically. Its leaderboard was the same. You just had a hundred or so players that every time the moment a new song was released, no matter how hard it was, they'd have it 100%'ed and perfected within a few hours because they'd practice the song over and over so they could top the leaderboard as quickly as possible with the best score. It quickly got to the point where it wasn't even fun to compare to others and look at the leaderboards anymore because it was irrelevant. You couldn't even begin to compete with those top, elite players that dedicate their entire lives to the game unless you did the same. 

 

So I brought the same philosophy over to the trophy leaderboards. I don't even look at them and I don't care. I just concern myself with my own personal goals with my own profile and that's enough for me. 

[iriihutoR84]

8 minutes ago, Nelson_ said:

Lol at that letter rumor from sony saying it would ban shovelware, already knew it would never happen, now we even have the jumping food memory lmao 

 

Sony's letter was always just about copy-paste games rather than bad games and I'd say we have largely stopped getting those. Otherwise we wouldn't just get one Jumping Food Memory but instead Jumping Burrito Memory, Jumping Sushi Memory, Jumping Bagel Memory etc. 

[Marawan247]

What does everyone think if there was a leaderboard between nations?

[VigilantCrow]

Leaderboards will never be fair. I only need 3-4 hours of sleep a day to feel fully rested. I'll always have an advantage over anyone who needs 8-9. 

That being said a retiree with a good pension will always beat me, given I have a full time career.

 

The True sites found the middle ground for success. Custom leaderboards where people with similar lifestyles can group up and compete as seriously or casually as they want.

[Jerry_Appleby]

1 hour ago, Laxus-0 said:

Even with shovelware now,  your dedication to your account was not a waste. Don't call it a waste when something like this is way out of your control. Think about it like this. Being at place 87th while playing just normal games is a far better outcome than being in the top ten and playing literally trash games. I will not believe for one second that those guys at the top are really enjoying in what they do. Maybe they do, but that is really hard to believe.

 

You have a great account btw. but you shouldn't have started saints row lol.

Thanks! Oh I am proud of what I accomplished no doubt, but coming from an era where you "earned" your trophies and worked your way up the LBs, to seeing what we have nowadays, you still can't help but feel annoyed at the whole situation!

 

 

And yeah Saints Row is definitely not as good as the others but seeing as I've done every other game in the series, I did eventually want to play the new one! The gameplay is fun but the story is terrible!

 

I just did a mission where you rob the equivalent of a McDonalds just for some Happy Meal toys, and your main character's friend says he's gonna donate them to the local orphanage 🙄 Real gangster-like 😂

[huebrin18]

1 hour ago, Nelson_ said:

Jajaja, ante el rumor de esa carta de Sony que decía que prohibiría las palas, ya sabía que nunca sucedería, ahora incluso tenemos el recuerdo de la comida saltarina lmao. 

As far as I know, Sony did not prohibit stacks but imposed a rule on developers that they did not make exact copies of the games by changing the name, for example as in Pretty Bird, although this must be taken with a grain of salt if it is true that the number of cloned EZPZ games has decreased

[huebrin18]

6 hours ago, JAK-KRIEG said:

Recientemente tuve un pequeño descanso de las tablas de clasificación durante aproximadamente un mes. Me reincorporé y vi en mi tabla de clasificación nacional lo "nuevo" y luego todas las flechas rojas debajo de mí. Por un breve tiempo me pregunto qué estarían pensando algunas de las personas debajo de mí, especialmente los usuarios de palas, "de ninguna manera, amigo, gasté cientos y ahora pierdo lugares". Me reí un poco para mis adentros. De todos modos, esta tabla de clasificación no debe tomarse en serio; cualquiera que lo haga, me da lástima.

If you are not competitive and take yourself seriously, in this case, the ranking, you will never be able to move up, in my case I have always been competitive for the ranking and I like to sacrifice my life for trophies, I don't have to feel sorry for it 😁

[Burritoprime]

Never really cared for leaderboards of any kind tbh, before the shovelware ascension I'd look through it from time to time just to see what kind of games the people above me played but now it's trashware up the wazoo, but ever since Sly added the standard feature that hides them I completely forgot they existed here, on the other hand on Sony store front is a different story since you have to swim through trash to find the actual good games on sale, that hurts finding good indie games a lot.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Sunnyburrito

[bosstristan]

Unfortunately there's no way to counter this.

 

I still find it nice to have a 100% Club and Fastest achiever leaderboard, I made it to 1 once lol