We're at that point that some rules must change to get rid of trophy hackers

[Walt the Dog]

5 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

And not even just the main ones. Auto-popping has also destroyed the fastest achiever category that speed runners used to enjoy.

For those specific games, sure, but throwing out the entire thing because maybe 1% of actual games on PSN don't have meaningful Fastest Achiever boards due to autopopping is beyond absurd given all the games where autopopping isn't an option.

 

Never mind the fact that even putting aside the main leaderboard itself, cheater detection goes a long way towards making sure that the rarity of trophies is more accurate, particularly for PS3 and especially Vita games where hacking is rampant. A lot of more niche games from those consoles would have horrifically inflated rarities without people, at the very least, going in and wiping all the blatantly obvious cheaters.

[Sendai-Horatio]

8 hours ago, Ashande said:

 

That was something I was thinking about earlier; to appease those folks who want a “cleaner” leaderboard, put some form of opt-in board together. One that has an application and vetting process, and semi-regular audits. There’s still going to be cheaters - because people are, at their core, assholes - but at least it’d be a smaller pool with more oversight. I don’t know that it’s all that feasible without the addition of a significant amount of staff (volunteer or otherwise) oversight, and I suspect it would open up the slippery slope of what “counts,” because inevitably someone is going to get salty when they get passed by someone stacking Jumping Food or Telltale plats, and then we’ll be right back in the muck of folks trying to manipulate the data to get the result they want.

For a second board, I think the smart thing would be to treat shovelware as empty calories. It won't punish you for anything like a cheated game would, but it wouldn't improve your rank either. If you separate the ranks and have the regular leader board as it currently is and an adjusted leaderboard where all the junk games don't count and have every profile counted this way it might steer some behavior into tackling actual games again instead of just an endless onslaught of Quiz Thiz and Jumping game stacks. Personally I like looking at other profiles to try and discover other games, but if someone has stack after stack of the same nothing game multiple times in a row I just click right off.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Sendai-Horatio

[Fallout795]

On 12/25/2023 at 11:59 AM, ChristianHenares said:

My only take here is to add more members to the moderator team and maybe changing the rules so literally any game below 1min will get banned if it's not auto-pop and with the exception of Slyde which is a game you can do in 18sec as far as I know.

Too many factors here to be aware of. Auto-pop up games kill a good possible measure that would be to autoban or autoreport every single game below 1min obtainable trophies. Human study on each game is necessary, I'm aware of it.

Another thing have to be, at some point,talk about external apps and people doing Life is Strange under 3 hours, which is impossible on normal and legit methods, but maybe that's another topic.

how could they even add that 1 minute rule cause someone can use that auto pop as a big cover up to stay on the leaderboard

27 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

For a second board, I think the smart thing would be to treat shovelware as empty calories. It won't punish you for anything like a cheated game would, but it wouldn't improve your rank either. If you separate the ranks and have the regular leader board as it currently is and an adjusted leaderboard where all the junk games don't count and have every profile counted this way it might steer some behavior into tackling actual games again instead of just an endless onslaught of Quiz Thiz and Jumping game stacks. Personally I like looking at other profiles to try and discover other games, but if someone has stack after stack of the same nothing game multiple times in a row I just click right off.

This is a good feature truetrophies has a second leaderboard for tt points it would be nice if psnp did that two leaderboards

[kindajustin]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:17 AM, MMDE said:

Be happy with the ease of which you can tell a lot of the time.

I don't think I have to be happy with it to be honest with you, and that's not some sort of implication that I think this is the fault of the current CRT staff. I know it's not your fault. But if you care about the longevity and welfare of this site, whether it be as a staff member or even just someone who uses this site regularly, do you think "you should be happy it's not even worse than it is" is something that can inspire the community in your favor? I'm well aware of why nothing is going to change but does that mean we just need to accept a certain level of apathy and stagnation? I'm asking you these questions genuinely.

[MonaSaxPayne]

32 minutes ago, kindajustin said:

 I'm well aware of why nothing is going to change but does that mean we just need to accept a certain level of apathy and stagnation?

 

I think u answered ur own question

[kindajustin]

7 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

I think u answered ur own question

I wanna hear it from the ones that the community think have some level of control here. They're the only ones that can start saying the thing we're not exactly allowed to say if any real change is ever going to happen. And if no change is going to happen, you and I both understand the stated apathy and stagnation.

[MonaSaxPayne]

2 minutes ago, kindajustin said:

I wanna hear it from the ones that the community think have some level of control here. 

 

the one person who can implement any kind of change around here is Sly, and from all outward appearances he seems to have practically abandoned the site 

[ARIXANDRE]

On 12/26/2023 at 8:11 PM, JAK-KRIEG said:

I think some people take this hobby like it's life or death have a drink smoke or whatever you do to calm down. I agree that cheaters should be removed the crt do mostly a good job imo, but some people will die of stress related illnesses I fear in the process.

Just this, right here. Cheaters should be punished but perhaps....this may sound crazy...worry less about leaderboards and more about enjoying your personal trophy hunting habits. 😉

[kindajustin]

17 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

the one person who can implement any kind of change around here is Sly, and from all outward appearances he seems to have practically abandoned the site 

I understand and agree with what you are saying. To put this in the most blunt way possible, kindajustin and MonaSaxPayne mean jackshit around here. Nobody gives a fuck that we understand and agree on the matters we are currently discussing. If we bite the dust nobody cares. If a moderator/CRT is inexplicably disappeared from this site people will notice.

 

11 minutes ago, ARIXANDRE said:

Just this, right here. Cheaters should be punished but perhaps....this may sound crazy...worry less about leaderboards and more about enjoying your personal trophy hunting habits. 😉

A lot of people's trophy hunting habits have long predicated on the inherently competitive nature of trophy hunting so there's no reason to assume that cracking indirect jokes on them is going to change that. I couldn't care less about the leaderboards competitively but I'm not gonna start going around telling others how they need to play games.

Edited December 29, 2023 by kindajustin

[AJ_-_808]

8 hours ago, ImLordell said:

Why does the ultra-rare leaderboard not define better gaming if people care so much about shovel ware being a leaderboard ruiner?

I don't follow your question.

 

The shovelware platinums are basically 100% common whereas any respectable rarity cutoff would effectively eliminate them (from an alternate board) and give the people that don't want to deal with those a different board to compete on.  As specific trophies become more common, they get edged out of the point system. The problem is nobody (I'm assuming Sly has the final say) can agree on what the defined cutoff should be and there's no solution to make everyone 100% happy.

[ARIXANDRE]

27 minutes ago, kindajustin said:

A lot of people's trophy hunting habits have long predicated on the inherently competitive nature of trophy hunting so there's no reason to assume that cracking indirect jokes on them is going to change that. I couldn't care less about the leaderboards competitively but I'm not gonna start going around telling others how they need to play games.

Indeed, and that's a discussion for another time. I personally use the site to track my own progress. 

 

No jokes were "cracked" but I do get a laugh at the OCD levels in some of these threads. 

 

Hopefully a moderator will give you the answers you seek. 

[Helyx]

Back in the before times, Sly's old site deliberately tracked known hackers so their trophy lists and icons could be added to the database (it apparently wasn't able to add any trophies to the site without someone first syncing them).

[Dry]

45 minutes ago, Helyx said:

Sly's old site

 

Seriously, more users here must know the fate of PS3Trophies.com because if not then history is sure to repeat through PSNProfiles.com suffering likewise.

 

If it weren’t for its inferior forum interface/platform (as of typing), I’d be willing to ditch here for “that one pocket place” any day.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Dry

[Fiercethetear]

52 minutes ago, Dry said:

 

Seriously, more users here must know the fate of PS3Trophies.com because if not then history is sure to repeat through PSNProfiles.com suffering likewise.

 

If it weren’t for its inferior forum interface/platform (as of typing), I’d be willing to ditch here for “that one pocket place” any day.

What happened on that site?

[TheDarkKratos]

14 hours ago, VoidVictorious said:

I stopped caring about metrics and statistics a long time ago. I highly recommend enjoying your holidays with a strong cocktail or two. It’s much more rewarding than caring about most of this stuff. Speaking of which, it is time for me to make a drink! Happy Holidays!

This exactly... Cheers, buddy...

 

Spoiler

 

[DEMONICRUBLE18]

19 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Most of the complaints I see (or make myself) have nothing to do with wanting to climb the LB or chase the #1 spot or anything like that. There certainly were plenty of people who used to enjoy climbing the leaderboards as there was a genuine competitive element to them, especially in the early days,  but clearly, that is gone and never coming back (at least on this site).

 

Most people just want to see how they compare to other users who also actively aim for trophies.

 

Back on topic, the state of the leaderboards does kind of call into question the purpose of the CRT as a whole. They do excellent work, but what exactly is the point? The leaderboards are pointless in their current form. And not even just the main ones. Auto-popping has also destroyed the fastest achiever category that speed runners used to enjoy.

 

If anything the site should just embrace what it is and get rid of all leaderboard options or traces of them. Just focus on being a site dedicated to guides and forum talk.

 

Let other sites handle the leaderboards.

I 100% percent disagree, I'm here for the Leaderboards, my goal is to get to first on each type of Leaderboard for my country, global Leaderboards would be pretty cool to get but outside of possibly VR and maybe PS3 I don't see that happening, also other sites Leaderboards in my opinion are crappy compared to the ones here at least for what I'm looking at. 

[sepheroithisgod]

6 hours ago, Fiercethetear said:

What happened on that site?

It was abandoned.

 

11 minutes ago, DEMONICRUBLE18 said:

I 100% percent disagree, I'm here for the Leaderboards, my goal is to get to first on each type of Leaderboard for my country, global Leaderboards would be pretty cool to get but outside of possibly VR and maybe PS3 I don't see that happening, also other sites Leaderboards in my opinion are crappy compared to the ones here at least for what I'm looking at. 

I see why you would say that after checking out your profile lol

[coopbuh]

My 2 cents

Employ more members for the CRT, then categorise each member to a specific genre of game. instead of 3 members looking through all genres, have 15 members look through 15 genres. Reports will made faster.

you cant possibly think that a website with 6.1M current profiles being tracked is to be successfully monitored by 3 people. Its ludicrous really

[Fiercethetear]

47 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

It was abandoned.

By the wording of it I thought some sort of scandal had taken place lol. In my opinion UI of this website is too good for it to get abondoned, but I agree leaderboards are cooked.

[Prometheous101]

On 12/25/2023 at 2:39 PM, DEMONICRUBLE18 said:

Also VR games with THL coming up I've been getting VR games in preparation for it and checking the times on a few games I've noticed a few CFW profiles, as far as I know with VR anything under a minute shouldn't be possible. 

Theres a few of us that report the obvious cheaters on VR games. They dont happen as often as the other popular Trophy Platorms, tho.

[berto113]

I'm not sure on the feasibility of it or how helpful it would be to solve this particular problem (I don't put a lot of value in the leaderboards, but I get there are people that do), but what if you had the ability to create private leagues?  Each league could have their own leaderboard, set of criteria to gain entry, their own commissioners to accept members and weed out those that cheat, etc.    I'm sure someone has suggested this in the past and it was probably shut down for some reason I'm not thinking of.

[MMDE]

14 hours ago, kindajustin said:

I don't think I have to be happy with it to be honest with you, and that's not some sort of implication that I think this is the fault of the current CRT staff. I know it's not your fault. But if you care about the longevity and welfare of this site, whether it be as a staff member or even just someone who uses this site regularly, do you think "you should be happy it's not even worse than it is" is something that can inspire the community in your favor? I'm well aware of why nothing is going to change but does that mean we just need to accept a certain level of apathy and stagnation? I'm asking you these questions genuinely.

 

Inspire the community in my favor? Think the other way around, how can you inspire me?

 

Yes, the easy ones are easily removed.

 

I'm affected myself, especially by those "easy" ones.

Edited December 29, 2023 by MMDE

[JCP3953]

I think they should make a leaderboard with its own point system

(could also add a new rarity or two where anything over 90% has no points) 

 

common trophies =1 point 

uncommon= 3 points 

Rare= 10 points

very rare = 25 points 

ultra rare = 50 points 

 

this would make shovelware and easy trophies worth a lot less but also not completely alienate them 

 

now the issue I do see with this is many newer games even harder ones seem to stay at uncommon rarity due to how it only counts profiles that have been synced to this site, would need to ether auto sync all profiles on the site  or start using psn rarity for it (maybe an average of the two) 

 

might sound hypocritical of me since I’ve been hoarding easy trophies on my profile but I truly think region stacks should not be a thing anymore, it’s one thing having shovelware (I do it to piss off certain people in my friend group as it’s funny seeing them lose it over trophies) but having the same game in 5 diff regions then double it if it’s on another console is going overboard, I have nothing against console stacks just region stacks are getting out of hand 

[ruexnimbus]

Tough subject. There's always been, always will be hackers. They're more like griefers than gamers. They derive entertainment from interfering with people who want to take something, anything seriously. Something they can't understand as lifelong class clowns.

I like the leaderboards the way they are, I think it's fun to climb it (slowly). I've been doing online competitive gaming since '97 hopping GameSpy servers, there's always been hackers to mess things up and laugh about. So hackneyed and cliche. What an impressive way to spend our time in life blah blah et cetera. At some point you have to find the value in what you do internally, especially so as we get older.

[DaivRules]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:29 AM, ChristianHenares said:

But the thing is the reports are being made but many days can pass and they're still at the top. 

 

 

Although nothing is perfect and some things should change

Re-reading this opening post, is your only actual ask that you want reports converted to flags faster so that cheaters aren't listed above you on your speedruns for very long? 

You've mentioned change in your title and bolded it in your opening post, but never clarified what the change your specifically seeking was.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by DaivRules