We're at that point that some rules must change to get rid of trophy hackers

[TopGOSU_]

I think cheaters and hackers have reached an uncontrollable level.

Time stamp manipulation, an obvious cheater, should be punished

Their common excuse is to play offline and say they were simply "bug."

I think that normal users suffer because of those users

[TheDarkKratos]

I can totally see where people are coming from, but let's face facts...

 

Spoiler

 

[LukeTheGooner]

cheaters will always cheat, you can't stop them especially with the sheer amount

[Stevieboy]

4 hours ago, Dragon_Lord502 said:

Considering I've cheated over 350 vita games, without a single report. PS vita really needs looked at, something BIG that that automated system misses is vita games from multiple regions. If last trophy to first trophy from eu to hk is like 3 minutes they didn't switch regions, that's CFW.

 

Besides that, I've cheated around 30 ps3 games. The leaderboards are worthless, though haven't they been since the shovelware

 

Your profile is hidden, so you're not even on any leaderboards here to be removed from.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Stevieboy

[Pelziowo]

I don't really understand why CRT is only 4 members. There are so many people who would be willing to help I feel, with such a large database to manage.

 

I do agree that it's impossible to manage as it is now, but things could definitely be mitigated to improve the current situation.

 

I very much appreciate the work of the current members though ❤️ 

[Jerry_Appleby]

I feel for the OP in this circumstance. I really hate seeing Vita hackers on the leaderboards, and I feel like I report a few almost every week. It is very tiring to have to keep repeating that each and every week, but the staff do end up removing those problem profiles eventually.

 

I usually find them when I browse all my #1 speedrun times on various Vita POWGI games; Either my time is still #1, or there are 2-3 new profiles above mine with impossible timestamps. It's annoying dealing with those so often so I'd be all for an implement of some type to detect any plats done in under a minute (Minus the few games that actually do support autopop)!

[ChristianHenares]

7 hours ago, Jerry_Appleby said:

I feel for the OP in this circumstance. I really hate seeing Vita hackers on the leaderboards, and I feel like I report a few almost every week. It is very tiring to have to keep repeating that each and every week, but the staff do end up removing those problem profiles eventually.

 

I usually find them when I browse all my #1 speedrun times on various Vita POWGI games; Either my time is still #1, or there are 2-3 new profiles above mine with impossible timestamps. It's annoying dealing with those so often so I'd be all for an implement of some type to detect any plats done in under a minute (Minus the few games that actually do support autopop)!

 

I just found on Battle Chasers: Nightwar list that there are 3 people making it through in 10-20 minutes. That's impossible just like Life is Strange, The Walking Dead Complete Seasos and many other games. I know this is a different topic but it's consider "technically not hacking" but still is not legit neither.

 

Both things to me are annoying, disrespectful and overall killing our passion for this. In any case, I know how it feels what you're saying because we're on the same page here.

[DaivRules]

2 minutes ago, ChristianHenares said:

I just found on Battle Chasers: Nightwar list that there are 3 people making it through in 10-20 minutes.

All three of those profiles are completely new to the site and will likely be off the leaderboards soon, or at least once a couple reports come in and are approved, judging from a quick look at the rest of their profiles.

There are many, many new profiles added to the site daily. The bigger the site, the more often it'll happen. A lot of them are going not going to follow the leaderboard rules with how simple it is to break them, and hardly any of them taking trophies that seriously.

I don't think any changes to the CRT (simply adding more members) is going to accomplish what you seem to desire in the current leaderboard(s).

I think, to reference previous suggestions, a whole new leaderboard, with different rules, that's opt-in, with significantly more resources, and a lot more automation would be needed. 


 

[Ashande]

1 hour ago, DaivRules said:

[…]

I think, to reference previous suggestions, a whole new leaderboard, with different rules, that's opt-in, with significantly more resources, and a lot more automation would be needed. 


 

 

That was something I was thinking about earlier; to appease those folks who want a “cleaner” leaderboard, put some form of opt-in board together. One that has an application and vetting process, and semi-regular audits. There’s still going to be cheaters - because people are, at their core, assholes - but at least it’d be a smaller pool with more oversight. I don’t know that it’s all that feasible without the addition of a significant amount of staff (volunteer or otherwise) oversight, and I suspect it would open up the slippery slope of what “counts,” because inevitably someone is going to get salty when they get passed by someone stacking Jumping Food or Telltale plats, and then we’ll be right back in the muck of folks trying to manipulate the data to get the result they want.

[DrBloodmoney]

I would argue we’re long past the point where anyone gives a grasshopper’s fart about their leaderboard position….

 

…..and deep into the era of “play what you want to play, and don’t worry about whether other people are cheating, because it really doesn’t matter”

[MonaSaxPayne]

3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

…..and deep into the era of “play what you want to play, and don’t worry about whether other people are cheating, because it really doesn’t matter”

 

maybe its a case of "vocal minority" but i see so many posts with people complaining (for one reason or another) about what other people play

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

maybe its a case of "vocal minority" but i see so many posts with people complaining (for one reason or another) about what other people play

Sure, but in recent times, it’s actually pretty dang rare to see anyone posting a legit post or update genuinely lamenting their position on the actual LB, or earnestly talking about wanting to climb them.

 

Ten years ago, those were the norm, but when I see one now, it’s like a fun anachronism from a bygone era! 😂

[sepheroithisgod]

12 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Sure, but in recent times, it’s actually pretty dang rare to see anyone posting a legit post or update genuinely lamenting their position on the actual LB, or earnestly talking about wanting to climb them.

 

Ten years ago, those were the norm, but when I see one now, it’s like a fun anachronism from a bygone era! 😂

Most of the complaints I see (or make myself) have nothing to do with wanting to climb the LB or chase the #1 spot or anything like that. There certainly were plenty of people who used to enjoy climbing the leaderboards as there was a genuine competitive element to them, especially in the early days,  but clearly, that is gone and never coming back (at least on this site).

 

Most people just want to see how they compare to other users who also actively aim for trophies.

 

Back on topic, the state of the leaderboards does kind of call into question the purpose of the CRT as a whole. They do excellent work, but what exactly is the point? The leaderboards are pointless in their current form. And not even just the main ones. Auto-popping has also destroyed the fastest achiever category that speed runners used to enjoy.

 

If anything the site should just embrace what it is and get rid of all leaderboard options or traces of them. Just focus on being a site dedicated to guides and forum talk.

 

Let other sites handle the leaderboards.

[DaivRules]

4 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Back on topic, the state of the leaderboards does kind of call into question the purpose of the CRT as a whole. They do excellent work, but what exactly is the point? The leaderboards are pointless in their current form. And not even just the main ones.

The sites leaderboard is what it always has been, even though people tried to assign it other meaning: a trophy points leaderboard for people who obtain trophies according to its rules. The CRTs point, as it always was, is to evaluate and remove profiles from the trophy points leaderboard when trophies violate those rules. 
It’s a false dichotomy to say that if the leaderboards don’t represent what someone who doesn’t understand what they are doesn’t like them, that they serve no other purpose and are pointless. 
Some people may not like what it represents, but it still has a point and is not, in fact, pointless. 
 

[amurnin100]

16 hours ago, Dragon_Lord502 said:

Considering I've cheated over 350 vita games, without a single report. PS vita really needs looked at, something BIG that that automated system misses is vita games from multiple regions. If last trophy to first trophy from eu to hk is like 3 minutes they didn't switch regions, that's CFW.

 

Besides that, I've cheated around 30 ps3 games. The leaderboards are worthless, though haven't they been since the shovelware

CRT taking note …. 📝 

 

Congrats on painting a target on your profile here , you deserve everything that comes to you should you go public ..

 

Like a mole poking his head out of the ground …

Edited December 28, 2023 by amurnin100

[D-E-U-S-X]

Even if the classic leaderboard is now a joke, it is still important to remove as many cheaters as possible from it in order to give the statistics a last bit of credibility.

CRT does a good job, albeit a thankless one.

[Jeanolt]

28 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

 

If anything the site should just embrace what it is and get rid of all leaderboard options or traces of them. Just focus on being a site dedicated to guides and forum talk.

 

Let other sites handle the leaderboards.

That would not help considering many people like leaderboards, and this site not only have the hugest database of any other site, but it also has separate leaderboards by country, console, VR, etc.

 

To delete them because less than a 1% of the users cheated some trophies or play jumping games isn't a good choice.

[AJ_-_808]

14 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

The sites leaderboard is what it always has been, even though people tried to assign it other meaning: a trophy points leaderboard for people who obtain trophies according to its rules. The CRTs point, as it always was, is to evaluate and remove profiles from the trophy points leaderboard when trophies violate those rules. 
It’s a false dichotomy to say that if the leaderboards don’t represent what someone who doesn’t understand what they are doesn’t like them, that they serve no other purpose and are pointless. 
Some people may not like what it represents, but it still has a point and is not, in fact, pointless. 
 

Technically, and literally, correct.

 

I think the problem most have is the leaderboard hasn't evolved with or spawned any alternatives to the changes in the trophy environment to maintain the same competitive spirit.  

 

While it still literally counts 1min jumping plats with the correct associated value, it can't compare with an actual game.  Peoples' choices are to lower their standards, campaign for a change, or stop caring about the leaderboard altogether.

[DaivRules]

Just now, AJ_-_808 said:

Technically, and literally, correct.

 

I think the problem most have is the leaderboard hasn't evolved with or spawned any alternatives to the changes in the trophy environment to maintain the same competitive spirit.  

 

While it still literally counts 1min jumping plats with the correct associated value, it can't compare with an actual game.  Peoples' choices are to lower their standards, campaign for a change, or stop caring about the leaderboard altogether.

 

And I'm of the opinion that the campaign for change should focus on clearly defining what people actually want out of a leaderboard and build a new one from the ground up entirely focused on that, not changing the existing one that is already established as what it is. 

But the problem, of course as we've seen here now countless times, is enough people can't collectively come together to create a clearly defined alternative leaderboard. With fully thought through rules and restrictions. Something someone could start practically building. The majority of people just usually get to the stance of pointing at the current leaderboard and saying "Not that." That's not enough.

 

[sepheroithisgod]

21 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

The sites leaderboard is what it always has been, even though people tried to assign it other meaning: a trophy points leaderboard for people who obtain trophies according to its rules. The CRTs point, as it always was, is to evaluate and remove profiles from the trophy points leaderboard when trophies violate those rules. 
It’s a false dichotomy to say that if the leaderboards don’t represent what someone who doesn’t understand what they are doesn’t like them, that they serve no other purpose and are pointless. 
Some people may not like what it represents, but it still has a point and is not, in fact, pointless. 
 

Fine, I'll say they are almost pointless, or perhaps you would prefer joke?

 

The core issue that the OP raises is that the leaderboards have failed to adapt to the current leaderboard. Yes, the PSNP leaderboard has always been point-based, but it was never made with the current environment in mind. Thus, it became a joke as a comparison tool.

For example, look at running in the Olympics. Many would think running isn't exactly reliant on technological innovations, but it is. As a result, they had to change the rules related to footwear to protect the integrity of the sport under changing conditions. This ensures that records are not just broken because someone has a better pair of shoes.

 

In this case, the leaderboards on this site have failed to adapt. As a result, they have been left behind. It's the case for the main leaderboard due to shovelware representing 70% of PSN trophy lists, and it is a problem with fastest achiever boards as auto-popping will never lose.

 

8 minutes ago, Jeanolt said:

That would not help considering many people like leaderboards, and this site not only have the hugest database of any other site, but it also has separate leaderboards by country, console, VR, etc.

 

To delete them because less than a 1% of the users cheated some trophies or play jumping games isn't a good choice.

Fair. I don't really want the leaderboards removed, but changes need to be made to make them relevant.

[fbdbh]

10 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

Technically, and literally, correct.

 

I think the problem most have is the leaderboard hasn't evolved with or spawned any alternatives to the changes in the trophy environment to maintain the same competitive spirit.  

 

While it still literally counts 1min jumping plats with the correct associated value, it can't compare with an actual game.  Peoples' choices are to lower their standards, campaign for a change, or stop caring about the leaderboard altogether.

 

Once you come up with a system that differentiates between games, it's no longer a metric, this is why it won't happen. Rarity is the only variable that could make a difference, but even determining a formula steps away from an objective metric and people will debate how the formula was invented because cutting off points are arbitrary.

Edited December 28, 2023 by fbdbh

[AJ_-_808]

34 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

And I'm of the opinion that the campaign for change should focus on clearly defining what people actually want out of a leaderboard and build a new one from the ground up entirely focused on that, not changing the existing one that is already established as what it is. 

But the problem, of course as we've seen here now countless times, is enough people can't collectively come together to create a clearly defined alternative leaderboard. With fully thought through rules and restrictions. Something someone could start practically building. The majority of people just usually get to the stance of pointing at the current leaderboard and saying "Not that." That's not enough.

 

 

32 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

Once you come up with a system that differentiates between games, it's no longer a metric, this is why it won't happen. Rarity is the only variable that could make a difference, but even determining a formula steps away from an objective metric and people will debate how the formula was invented because cutting off points are arbitrary.

 

No argument there, which is why I'm in the "don't care anymore" camp.

 

It would pretty much come down to Sly making a 2nd board and having the final decision on cut offs He'd basically have to say "this is it, if you don't like it, too bad"

 

Until then, and probably after (albeit to a lesser extent) these arguments and threads will keep coming up

[ImLordell]

17 hours ago, Dragon_Lord502 said:

Considering I've cheated over 350 vita games, without a single report. PS vita really needs looked at, something BIG that that automated system misses is vita games from multiple regions. If last trophy to first trophy from eu to hk is like 3 minutes they didn't switch regions, that's CFW.

 

Besides that, I've cheated around 30 ps3 games. The leaderboards are worthless, though haven't they been since the shovelware

 

EDIT: Must not be clear that this is my alt... I'm not going to straight up out myself. After all the years and $$$$, though I really don't care to stay. Just though I'd make it clear that it's easy to hide.....

I'm weak, this post is hilarious. You pulled a Tekashi on yourself lol. 

[VoidVictorious]

I stopped caring about metrics and statistics a long time ago. I highly recommend enjoying your holidays with a strong cocktail or two. It’s much more rewarding than caring about most of this stuff. Speaking of which, it is time for me to make a drink! Happy Holidays!

[ImLordell]

6 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

 

No argument there, which is why I'm in the "don't care anymore" camp.

 

It would pretty much come down to Sly making a 2nd board and having the final decision on cut offs He'd basically have to say "this is it, if you don't like it, too bad"

 

Until then, and probably after (albeit to a lesser extent) these arguments and threads will keep coming up

Why does the ultra-rare leaderboard not define better gaming if people care so much about shovel ware being a leaderboard ruiner?