National Football League Thread

[F1rstinFlight]

5 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

Stats don't mean much.  Different coaches, different teammates, different opponents.  Jimmy is far from perfect, and I'm not nearly as onboard the Shanahan train as you are (his 4th quarter failures in both SBs are unforgivable), but switching out a QB is a big gamble.  Unless the one you have is garbage, it's a big risk.  If the team isn't behind him, if the offensive scheme isn't one he's comfortable with, if his salary means surrounding him with scrubs so the offense becomes a lame duck, etc... There's a lot of things that could go wrong.  I'm not against having him if that's an option (which it really doesn't look like it will be), but I don't see it as much of an improvement, especially considering the cuts for salary cap space they'd have to make to accommodate him.

 

Also, how do you blame Jimmy for the SB loss?  He didn't allow the Chiefs to score 21 unanswered points in the last 5 mins of the 4th quarter.  He didn't call only 1 run on the last 3 Niners drives of the game.  That's on the D and the coach.  And no, his last minute interception when they were down 2 scores and playing desperation ball was not indicative of anything.  Shanahan was to blame for that 4th quarter meltdown, just like how he was to blame for the Falcons meltdown in his prior SB loss.  And ironically, despite his run plays being deemed so creative, it was his lack of run calling in the second half of both SBs that led to both losses. And he's always been a run-heavy play caller, that has nothing to do with Jimmy or masking anything.  He certainly wasn't masking anything for Jimmy when he was in Atlanta, or during that 1-10 start in 2017 before Jimmy (and 5-0 finish with Jimmy).

 

If you think Watson is the better QB, that's fine.  You're probably right.  But that doesn't mean he can be shoe-horned into the Niners offense and do great things coming out the gate.  In the last 3 seasons Jimmy has been healthy for only one, and that was a winning season with a deep playoff run that only fell apart in the final minutes of a SB that was strangely and oddly poorly coached in the home stretch by a coach known for strange and odd play calling in the final stretch of SBs.  I'm choosing to remain hopeful that his injuries in 2018 and 2020 are behind him, and if he can remain healthy, I'm also choosing to stay positive in regards to what he can do leading the team.  I've been a Niners fan for over 30 years, and seen plenty of injury-prone QBs *cough Montana cough Young cough* do great things for this team.  The last few times they cast aside their injured QBs prematurely, they went on to find success elsewhere and their much-touted replacements ended up being duds.  I'd hate to see that happen again.

Stats don’t mean much? Are you new to the world of sports ?? Obviously they don’t mean everything but they’re the primary way to judge performance. And like I already pointed out, Jimmy G plays in the most quarterback-friendly system in the league. The Falcons had a much more prolific passing attack in 2016 under Shanahan with Matt Ryan than Jimmy G could ever hope to replicate. McVay runs a similar system and we all thought Goff was one of the best quarterbacks in the league when all things were clicking with the Rams, but he’s since demonstrated he’s not that good. And LaFleur also runs a similar system and have you seen the numbers Aaron Rodgers put up this year?

 

While you can definitely put the blame on Shanahan for the Falcons Super Bowl meltdown, the one last year was totally different. Jimmy G had an awful interception in the first half which was one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen. It was just such a dumb decision that NFL quarterbacks should never make. And maybe if Jimmy G could actually hit wide open receivers then the game wouldn’t have unfolded the way it did. Yes Shanahan could’ve run the ball a bit more when they had a 10 point lead but it’s not like they weren’t running it at all. Jimmy G was just playing terribly. To put all the blame on Shanahan and absolve Jimmy G is utterly ignorant. The throw he missed to Emmanuel Sanders when they still had a chance to take the lead at the end of the game was just pathetic. Any remotely competent quarterback can complete that throw because of how insanely wide open Sanders was. And then Jimmy G followed that up with an awful sack on 4th down when he had plenty of time to get the ball out to his outlet before the six-man rush got to him. Also the chiefs scored three times in the last 9 minutes, not 5, and you can’t totally blame the defense. The Chiefs had by far the most explosive offense in the league and you were only going to hold them down for so long. Why couldn’t Jimmy G score more than 20 points with all those weapons?
 

I’m not sure why you’re so in love with Jimmy G as a 49ers fan when he’s been handcuffing your team the last few years. It might be you just don’t know that much about football. And yeah any above-average quarterback can be “shoe-horned” in and be insanely successful in the 49ers system. I honestly hope the 49ers keep Jimmy G because he doesn’t scare me at all. I’d be much more worried if you got someone better. Also don’t forget that Jimmy G makes a ton of money too so it’s not like you’d have to compromise the team that much for cap space reasons. I’ll leave this video here as a painful reminder about what he did for you last year.

[djb5f]

49ers will be interesting next year.  On paper, they should do well.  

 

They have a losing record under Kyle Shanahan at this point.  Yes, injuries have obviously been bad but remember, this is the NFL where injuries typically take out so many key players from nearly every team.  At some point, it is next man up.  If they miss the playoffs again in 2021, I don’t want to hear the injury excuse again.  And the SB season will be the outlier.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by djb5f

[starcrunch061]

19 hours ago, majob said:

Urban Meyer is going to be the biggest coaching bust of this decade. 

Amen to that, too.

 

18 hours ago, ZJW44 said:

I’m not saying he’s going to be successful because most college coaches that come to the NFL don’t do well. But when has Urban Meyer ever been an NFL coach before? Do you even know what you’re talking about? It seems like you’re thinking about Nick Saban lmao ?. 

Actually, Saban was a good nfl coach. He was a shitty GM, and that’s what wrecked him. But as a field coach, he was quite adept.

Edited January 16, 2021 by starcrunch061

[acasser]

I think we're going to find out just how good a coach Urban Meyer really is.  Similar to a lot of the "elite" college coaches, he's seldom had to coach against a team that could match the amount of talent and the amount of depth he could bring to the table.  The best teams in college football frequently self-perpetuate that status because their success allows them to recruit better which in turn prolongs their success.

 

But my thought is thus:  Jacksonville better have a succession plan in mind for the guy.  Because he could fall into that basket of guys who don't seem so magical when they don't have that talent/depth advantage.  Or because his health will break down again and he'll have to step away after two or three years.  And this for a franchise that has already fired three coaches in a handful of seasons with their current ownership.

 

I'm not shocked that Urban Meyer landed in Jacksonville, what with the Florida connections and Trevor Lawrence.  I've told my friends and co-workers as much for a couple of weeks that I wouldn't be surprised by that move.  But I don't believe it's going to turn out as well as a lot of people would like it to.  And if he has significant say in personnel matters?  Yikes.

[Matto_lsi]

8 hours ago, ZJW44 said:

Stats don’t mean much? Are you new to the world of sports ? Obviously they don’t mean everything but they’re the primary way to judge performance. And like I already pointed out, Jimmy G plays in the most quarterback-friendly system in the league. The Falcons had a much more prolific passing attack in 2016 under Shanahan with Matt Ryan than Jimmy G could ever hope to replicate. McVay runs a similar system and we all thought Goff was one of the best quarterbacks in the league when all things were clicking with the Rams, but he’s since demonstrated he’s not that good. And LaFleur also runs a similar system and have you seen the numbers Aaron Rodgers put up this year?

 

While you can definitely put the blame on Shanahan for the Falcons Super Bowl meltdown, the one last year was totally different. Jimmy G had an awful interception in the first half which was one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen. It was just such a dumb decision that NFL quarterbacks should never make. And maybe if Jimmy G could actually hit wide open receivers then the game wouldn’t have unfolded the way it did. Yes Shanahan could’ve run the ball a bit more when they had a 10 point lead but it’s not like they weren’t running it at all. Jimmy G was just playing terribly. To put all the blame on Shanahan and absolve Jimmy G is utterly ignorant. The throw he missed to Emmanuel Sanders when they still had a chance to take the lead at the end of the game was just pathetic. Any remotely competent quarterback can complete that throw because of how insanely wide open Sanders was. And then Jimmy G followed that up with an awful sack on 4th down when he had plenty of time to get the ball out to his outlet before the six-man rush got to him. Also the chiefs scored three times in the last 9 minutes, not 5, and you can’t totally blame the defense. The Chiefs had by far the most explosive offense in the league and you were only going to hold them down for so long. Why couldn’t Jimmy G score more than 20 points with all those weapons?
 

I’m not sure why you’re so in love with Jimmy G as a 49ers fan when he’s been handcuffing your team the last few years. It might be you just don’t know that much about football. And yeah any above-average quarterback can be “shoe-horned” in and be insanely successful in the 49ers system. I honestly hope the 49ers keep Jimmy G because he doesn’t scare me at all. I’d be much more worried if you got someone better. Also don’t forget that Jimmy G makes a ton of money too so it’s not like you’d have to compromise the team that much for cap space reasons. I’ll leave this video here as a painful reminder about what he did for you last year.

 

Yes, stats don't mean much.  Stats didn't help Brady's 18-0 Pats in 2007.  Stats didn't help Manning and the Broncos most prolific scoring offense in NFL history in 2013.  Unless you're comparing an obvious dud to an obvious star, like a QB with 5 TDs and 100 INTs to a QB with 100 TDs and 5 INTs, they don't mean much.  As I said, I've been a fan for a long time.  We use stats, sure, but they're entirely fallible.  And you're trying to use 3 years of stats from a QB with essentially only 1 actual season of playtime to determine their lifetime quality? lol, who's new now?!

 

An INT in the first half?  Yeah, not relevant to the argument.  Not saying it's good, it was definitely bad a bad one.  But we're talking about a 4th quarter meltdown.  Niners were up 20-10 with 5.. oh sorry, 9 mins left in the game.  Anything that happened in the first half was completely irrelevant in that situation.  Yes, he had a subpar overall SB.  So did Mahomes for the first 51 mins.  I've seen a lot of SBs, and the only consistent thing between them is the inconsistency.  Players, coaches, everyone... people freak out.  They make weird decisions they never would during the regular season.  SBs are hardly a marker for career success.

 

Never said I was in love with him.  You're projecting again.  I said I didn't see taking any other available QB over him leading to any major improvement.  You're free to disagree, which you have, albeit very childishly.  I said that Watson, who is a proven talent, might not fit within the organization, and looking at a handful of stats isn't going to make any valid argument for his case.  He has more yards?  Duh.  He's in a pass-heavy offense, and you said it yourself, the Niners are a run-heavy offense.  That's not a valid comparison, imo.  But feel free to continue to get bent out of shape over someone on the internet not agreeing with you.

[Zio_Sam87]

Niners or not, it seems Watson is very angry and more angrier every new week ?

[Conker]

The Atlanta Falcons have hired Titans OC Arthur Smith as coach https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/15/falcons-announce-arthur-smith-as-their-head-coach/

[slaaack1]

Will be interesting to see the Falcons with their new HC. I liked them back then when they had their SB run, maybe they can do it again (kinda, with a new QB maybe )

 

Btw, rumor has it that Bills OC could be the new Chargers HC, could be interesting aswell with Herbert. 

At least my Steelers kicked Fitchner out, I'm ready for something new and hopefully better (maybe with Rudolph or someone from FA).

Edited January 16, 2021 by slaaack1

[Zio_Sam87]

22 hours ago, djb5f said:

49ers will be interesting next year.  On paper, they should do well.  

 

They have a losing record under Kyle Shanahan at this point.  Yes, injuries have obviously been bad but remember, this is the NFL where injuries typically take out so many key players from nearly every team.  At some point, it is next man up.  If they miss the playoffs again in 2021, I don’t want to hear the injury excuse again.  And the SB season will be the outlier.

 

 

 

 

 

You have to consider that first two seasons were in full rebuild mode, thanks to the disaster made by owner and useless coaches like ratman-Tomsula (by the way, good job on firing him, I dind't knew he was in Dallas)... And the SB season was the only one with a non-backup QB on the field, just to remember how this league is highly qb-dependant.

Sure if next year they stay healthy and miss the playoffs I will be the first one disappointed.

[F1rstinFlight]

20 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

Yes, stats don't mean much.  Stats didn't help Brady's 18-0 Pats in 2007.  Stats didn't help Manning and the Broncos most prolific scoring offense in NFL history in 2013.  Unless you're comparing an obvious dud to an obvious star, like a QB with 5 TDs and 100 INTs to a QB with 100 TDs and 5 INTs, they don't mean much.  As I said, I've been a fan for a long time.  We use stats, sure, but they're entirely fallible.  And you're trying to use 3 years of stats from a QB with essentially only 1 actual season of playtime to determine their lifetime quality? lol, who's new now?!

 

An INT in the first half?  Yeah, not relevant to the argument.  Not saying it's good, it was definitely bad a bad one.  But we're talking about a 4th quarter meltdown.  Niners were up 20-10 with 5.. oh sorry, 9 mins left in the game.  Anything that happened in the first half was completely irrelevant in that situation.  Yes, he had a subpar overall SB.  So did Mahomes for the first 51 mins.  I've seen a lot of SBs, and the only consistent thing between them is the inconsistency.  Players, coaches, everyone... people freak out.  They make weird decisions they never would during the regular season.  SBs are hardly a marker for career success.

 

Never said I was in love with him.  You're projecting again.  I said I didn't see taking any other available QB over him leading to any major improvement.  You're free to disagree, which you have, albeit very childishly.  I said that Watson, who is a proven talent, might not fit within the organization, and looking at a handful of stats isn't going to make any valid argument for his case.  He has more yards?  Duh.  He's in a pass-heavy offense, and you said it yourself, the Niners are a run-heavy offense.  That's not a valid comparison, imo.  But feel free to continue to get bent out of shape over someone on the internet not agreeing with you.

Lol I’m not getting bent out of shape at all. I have no vested interest in what the 49ers do. I’m not a 49ers fan in any way and I don’t root for a team in the same division. Though I do have a lot of respect for Joe Montana and I feel he often unfairly gets left out of the GOAT conversations. I just find it funny that you’re a “longtime” 49ers fan but somehow think your team can’t do any better than Jimmy G. And you’re not sold on Shanahan as a head coach haha. You also keep spouting false information to bolster your arguments and it makes me wonder if you even watch the games. I’ll petition the front office to hire you as GM with your deep knowledge of NFL football and high-quality personnel evaluations. Then you can fire Shanahan and keep Jimmy G. That would be a great move for your franchise ?.

[F1rstinFlight]

@Matto_lsi

No hard feelings though bud. I’m obviously just trolling you at this point and I’ll let it go. Plus I’m in a great mood because my Packers have a home game for the NFC Championship Game for the first time in Aaron Rodgers’s career.

 

I just get annoyed when people act like they know what they’re talking about but make flawed arguments. Like in your last post you made a false equivalency between teams stats and an individual player’s stats by bringing up the ‘07 Patriots and ‘13 Broncos offenses. What you’re failing to mention are the stats of the opposing defenses they faced in the Super Bowl. But what did those seasons do for Tom Brady and Peyton Manning? I don’t know maybe help cement them as two of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. 

 

And you’re hung up on one comparison I made between Deshaun’s stats and Jimmy G’s stats (even though they’ve played a similar number of games regardless of your point about number of total seasons). But you either failed to read or notice that in my next post I compared Jimmy G’s stats to quarterbacks who have played in very similar run-heavy schemes and had significantly better stats than Jimmy G could ever dream of putting up (Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Aaron Rodgers). 

[Zio_Sam87]

So BUF and GB won... I can see a BUF-KC game, but not sure who will win between Tom and Drew ?

[acasser]

I don't forsee Kansas City having huge problems with Cleveland.  The game will probably be closer than I think it ought to be, but I also believe we'll see that Buffalo-KC game next weekend.

 

As for the other?  My head says New Orleans.  I think the Saints are a better, more complete team; I also see the Saints having their last hurrah before age and the salary cap tear them to shreds next season when Drew Brees is doing television and half that roster is playing in other cities because New Orleans is $100 million over the cap.  But City Tampa is playing well these days and there's usually an upset in this round.  The Buccaneers should have another shot next season, assuming they remain healthy and Tom Brady doesn't step into Peyton Manning's noodle-armed machine the way Manning did in his final year.

 

I think the Saints are more likely to win, but I wouldn't be shocked to see an upset here.

[djb5f]

I think the Chiefs win in a close one (another one-score win, that is all they know how to do). No idea why Kansas City is favored by 10 when they beat no one this season by that much outside a few overmatched teams at the beginning.  KC is 1-7 against the spread in their last 8 games.  Of course, maybe that means they are due?

 

I think the Saints win pretty comfortably.  Not the best games this weekend for competitiveness but next week would be a doozy with the riff raff out and only the 1 and 2 seeds left.

[skidmarkgn]

Crossing my fingers for a Bills/Saints superbowl this year.

[grimydawg___]

Yay.  Good no call on the helmet to helmet......

[MidnightDragon]

It sucks Mahomes got a concussion. Hopefully he’s OK soon. I don’t know if he’ll be OK for next Sunday. If not, hopefully Henne can get the job done. 

[Conker]

Chiefs survive losing Mahomes to concussion to defeat the Browns and host tthe Bills next week, some big plays from backup qb Chad Henne to seal win, now we wait and see if Mahomes isavailable next week

[djb5f]

As expected Chiefs win in a one-possession game.  That has amazingly been the case in each of Kansas City’s last 8 wins!

 

What was not expected was doing it without Mahomes for a good portion of it.  Hopefully he is back for Buffalo.  Henne won’t win that one.

 

 

[skidmarkgn]

9 minutes ago, djb5f said:

As expected Chiefs win in a one-possession game.  That has amazingly been the case in each of Kansas City’s last 8 wins!

 

What was not expected was doing it without Mahomes for a good portion of it.  Hopefully he is back for Buffalo.  Henne won’t win that one.

 

 

 

KC's kinda got a "circling the drain" feeling to me.  Like you said, every game is staying close, even against subpar teams, and I don't think any of the 4 teams left in the playoffs would allow them off the hook after making those late game mistakes (the gift pick Henne threw in the endzone and the 3rd down sack) the way Cleveland did today.  I have all the respect in the world for KC but I'm not sure they can pull off the types of wins they've been getting lately 2 more times.

[Conker]

Well the Bucs advance after defeating the saints in what might be Drew Brees last game which wasn't a good one for him 

 

Conferene Championships 

Bucs at Packers 3:05 ET FOX

Bills at Chiefs 6:40 ET CBS

[skidmarkgn]

Tom Brady in another conference championship while Drew Brees's (potntially) final game is a 3 interception playoff disaster in a stadium with next to no fans.  If that isn't proof that us fans can't have nice things then I don't know what is.

[Zio_Sam87]

As I thought a 2-0 record in regular season means nothing during playoff... And NO was always more a whining team than a winning team. This was their last chance at winning something, they will be buried by salary cap next year.

 

So... considering no one has ever hosted a superbowl, GB is in a good spot. And once again I'm not sure who will win BUF-KC as Buffalo played very well during the season.

[Conker]

The Chargers are hiring LA Rams dc Brandon Staley https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30733020/los-angeles-chargers-hire-rams-brandon-staley-coach

 

The Detroit Lions are gonna hire saints assistant head coach Dan Campbell https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30732841/sources-detroit-lions-expected-hire-new-orleans-saints-assistant-head-coach-dan-campbell

[acasser]

6 hours ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

As I thought a 2-0 record in regular season means nothing during playoff...

 

Except that history says it does.

 

Because this is the 22nd time in NFL history that there was a Playoff game between teams that met twice in the regular season with one side going 2-0 against the other.  And even with New Orleans' loss yesterday, the team that went 2-0 in the regular season is 14-8 in the Playoff matchup.

 

It didn't come to fruition yesterday.  But when the team that went 2-0 in the regular season wins roughly two-thirds of the Playoff matchups, and the sample size has gotten this large, mathematics tells you that it's probably a relevant finding on some level and that there is an inherent bias.  Sure, 14-8 could just be a lucky "streak" of coin flips, but mathematical chances are that there's an enduring advantage baked into the system in favor of the team that had won the previous two matchups.