Earning Trophies on 3rd Party, Independently Revived PSN Game Servers

[Sergen]

I'm looking for the opinions of people who use this website regarding this matter. Most specifically the owner of the website: @Sly Ripper. 

 

So... I've recently seen that there is a person who was capable of independently restoring the online servers for Bulletstorm, a game that was shut down in 2014. Here is a thread on PlayStationtrophies.org where it was being discussed: https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/bulletstorm/323404-anarchy-anyone.html

 

Now, nobody on this website has currently been flagged and said in their dispute "I connected to a revived server for this game" and the person on PlayStationtrophies who made that thread has confirmed that simply connecting to a DNS server that has been made for that game can allow people online. 

 

Currently, it seems like anyone who goes online for Bulletstorm with the revived server still needs to fulfil the requirements for the trophies legitimately and the exploit they use simply tricks the game into thinking it is communicating with Gamespy's servers which have no communication to the PSN Servers. 

 

I did try to look through the ToS of PSN to see if inputting DNS addresses into your console was prohibited in any way and nothing came up with a ctrl + F and search for "DNS", meaning that for someone to simply use a publicly available DNS code and connect to a server that someone else has revived would not be a bannable offence on PSN. 

 

The only rule that currently constitutes a flag on this website regarding online gameplay is "Joining hacked multiplayer lobbies that auto-unlock trophies", but not "playing online on a game that was once shut down and earning the trophies through legitimate play". While I do think white-listing should be applied for games with a modded lobby that auto-pop trophies, a lot of the argument I've seen for not white-listing it is the fact that someone could ask a modder to do it and that you also need to have come into contact with a modder. When you connect to PSN and use a revived server, you would only need to use a DNS code if someone else did all the work getting the game back up and running and you don't need to meet that person or come into contact with them, the information could be publicly available. 

 

Personally, I do not think people should be flagged if they play a game in any way and still earn the trophies legitimately. People have used exploits for various games that require you to change DNS settings to exploit a trophy, the most notable example being Aliens vs Predator which allows people to get the XP based trophies within seconds with various changes to internet settings. I've also seen on the trophy guide for Dissidia Final Fantasy NT the promoted method for achieving the A++ trophies easily is to change the MTU setting to create a bad connection which gets you paired up with AI instead of a human player, this is an exploit of internet connection to gain a trophy, just like if someone were to input specific DNS codes to play a game online. 

 

Thousands, if not millions of people use Google's public DNS to connect to PSN and improve their connection speed and the Google DNS is run with external software, but nobody has ever been flagged for declaring that they use Google's public DNS to play online. 

 

Previously, xLinkKai was declared as "not cheating" if it was used to earn trophies and that is a software that you must download in order to play games online through the LAN option with people worldwide: 

I want this to be discussed before people start being flagged for this, because you can't really go back on thousands of flags. I do think a fair way of implementing it would be that anyone who earns trophies on a revived server also has to record a video or take a picture/screenshot of some of the trophies unlocking, to at least show they had been playing the online for the game legitimately. 

 

Edit: A lengthy discussion ensued because of this thread and here was the decision by the owner of this website 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Sergen

[NathanielJohn]

1 minute ago, Sergen said:

I did try to look through the ToS of PSN to see if inputting DNS addresses into your console was prohibited in any way and nothing came up with a ctrl + F and search for "DNS", meaning that for someone to simply use a publicly available DNS code and connect to a server that someone else has revived would not be a bannable offence on PSN. 

 

I mean, if they didn't want to let people use custom DNS, they just wouldn't have put that feature in their console.

 

This has become an "issue" with Demon's Souls as well, and it kind of blows my mind that it is even up for discussion. It breathes new life into games that people otherwise couldn't play. It doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage in the game, nor does it make trophies easier than they should be. This should be an absolutely great thing, and I honestly don't know what the point of the leaderboard rules are anymore if this isn't allowed.

[Elvick_]

There was a thread that had this discussion about it in it. Forget what it was, or if it was specifically about this subject. But some people thought it was cheating, something I don't understand at all.

If you legitimately do the task the game asks of you to earn the trophy, it's legitimate. Just because you have to access a 'dummy server' to get online... who cares? If you'd asked me before that thread if people would support that, I'd have said it'd be trophy hunters dream. And a gamers dream come true... because servers shutting down is crappy. And trophies you can't ever access again as a result kind of ruin the system of trophies IMO.

But now, I'd say some people really just don't want people to earn trophies they have that nobody else can get due to server closure. That's what it seems like to me at least. Nobody outright has said that, but I can't think of any other real reason to legitimately find issue with it. And the only arguments were false comparisons to auto-unlocking trophies through hacked servers, not using dummy servers to EARN the trophies in the same way you always had to. That require the same time to earn, that require the same skill where applicable.

I see it as a clear cut, non-issue that should be embraced as a great positive solution to a growing problem.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Elvick_

[ProfBambam55]

if experience has taught us anything it would be this : link the independent server(s) data in the affected game's trophy guide and all is well...then everyone has an even chance, right?...

 

personally, I have no qualms with anyone who earns trophies on a private server...i think the people who create them are brilliant and should be praised... 

[Potent_Delusions]

Absolutely 100% should be allowed. You are fulfilling the trophy requirements legitimately, just on a fan revived server that has come about as the result of the publisher not caring anymore and having shut the server.

 

As you have said, there are multiple games using DNS tricks to acquire trophies, these methods are permitted on all trophy websites and this is no different. You are using DNS settings...that is it. You are fulfilling the requirements as if on the normal server. i.e the Bulletstorm server: you are doing the trophies as any legit person did before July 2014, just on a fan revived server, it''s that simple. No cheating involved.

 

I find it nigh on farcical that anyone could even possibly be against this. It's a step in the right direction for trophy hunters to overcome server closures; something which banes most, if not all, trophy hunters. It's the trophy hunters stand against unobtainability. I hope all trophy hunters will show their support in this thread because I think this is the way forward, it's fantastic to see people using their time on such a favor for the community on the unobtainables front.

[ExHaseo]

I don't really see how it's much of an issue. They're earning the trophies legit. No auto-popping or hacking involved. So, I don't see an issue. I'm actually pretty stoked about old games getting fan servers, so that people can go back and play them. I'm hoping it happens with more games, especially with PS3 and Vita online support being potentially pulled next year.

[charlijaen]

On TrueAchievements it is not allowed to earn Halo 2 (GFWL PC) achievements through the revived servers.

I don't really think this can be allowed here either.

Maybe if you record yourself all the time they can allow it here

[Sergen]

15 minutes ago, charlijaen said:

On TrueAchievements it is not allowed to earn Halo 2 (GFWL PC) achievements through the revived servers.

I don't really think this can be allowed here either.

 

This is a completely different website and Xbox Live/Games for Windows Live are different and would have different Ts & Cs compared to PSN. Games for Windows Live as an overall service was shut down by Microsoft. As far as PSN is concerned, nothing in the ToS prohibits doing what is mentioned in the opening thread and people on this website also use the excuse of something being "against the ToS of PSN" for flagging people. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sergen

[xZoneHunter]

Interesting stuff. Would be pretty nice if allowed. 

[ProfBambam55]

8 minutes ago, charlijaen said:

On TrueAchievements....

let's face it here...trueachievements is an inferior website...

[charlijaen]

13 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

let's face it here...trueachievements is an inferior website...

@Sergen

 

Sorry, I was just pointing out an example. 

I will refrain from mentioning MS or Xbox

[Fing3rButt3r3]

Sounds great if it's 101% legitimate that no hacks is possible. But if there is a chance then this will just open up so much more possibilities for hackers.

[Sergen]

5 minutes ago, Fing3rButt3r3 said:

Sounds great if it's 101% legitimate that no hacks is possible. But if there is a chance then this will just open up so much more possibilities for hackers.

 

Anyone who wants to hack the trophies will more than likely be taking into consideration the date that the servers closed and edit the time stamps to be within that time frame. I've never personally seen a dispute for a flagged game where the person hacked trophies for a date after the server shutdown, but made the gaps for the trophies look legitimate. As far as it goes, it's just adding to a long list of network exploits people can apply to help aid them earning trophies. No other network related exploits for trophies like adding a DNS code to the console has ever been flagged before, so why should this be flagged? 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sergen

[Evil_Joker88]

i don't think anyone should be flagged if he/she plays a game online on a replacement server... as said above there are several exploits/glitches allowed or even encouraged in trophy guides, boosting mulitplayer trophies in general, that playing a game online as it was intended to is fine i say

[det_gittes]

Sorry for the ignorant question but are these revived servers only possible on PS3 or PS4 too?

[Sergen]

3 minutes ago, det_gittes said:

Sorry for the ignorant question but are these revived servers only possible on PS3 or PS4 too?

 

The only server someone has proven to work so far with independently run servers is Bulletstorm on PS3, but you never know. It has taken years for anyone to really do anything like this for PSN. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future people find ways to bring back PS4 servers independently. 

 

However, people have been reviving PS2 and PC servers for a very long time.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sergen

[det_gittes]

1 minute ago, Sergen said:

 

The only server someone has proven to work so far with independently run servers is Bulletstorm on PS3, but you never know. It has taken years for anyone to really do anything like this for PSN. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future people find ways to bring back PS4 servers independently. 

OK, thanks! Here's hoping to a Dead Star fan revived server, then

[Guest]

Ahhh!! I recently reported someone for Bulletstorm (ps3) online trophies because they were after the server closed date (its my first time reporting someone..was a request)...I guess he may had used one of these DNS things.?  Oops.

Edited March 14, 2018 by ERGOPROXY-DECAY
He is off the leaderboard now..

[BeautifulTorment]

I woulf love to see this done for Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising and I would also be interested in seeing how it affects games whosr servers contain save data (Crysis 2). If it starts you over from scratch that'd offer me a potential fix for my long-glitched Modern Art trophy that is tied to data saved server side. Does anyone know how we vould start looking into this stuff?

[Masamune]

Even though I'm an offline gamer, personally I think it's a great idea. The biggest flaw of online trophies is that eventually most of them become unobtainable, & that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of in trophy hunting.  So no, I think it's completely legit & people shouldn't be flagged for it. Of course, I guess the tricky part would be actually proving you did them legit in the revived server, & didn't just hack them...  

[joskeabzu]

1 hour ago, NathanielJohn said:

 

I mean, if they didn't want to let people use custom DNS, they just wouldn't have put that feature in their console.

 

Without a "DNS" you simply cannot connect to any other server or website for reference without knowing it's exact IP address. DNS translate IP addresses into domains. A "Domain Name Server" contains information about the domain-name, attached with an IP adress, so that your PC/console/etc. can use that information to connect to that IP address. It's like how websites works, if you type in www.PSNProfiles.com the "DNS" will look up it's IP address and will return that information to your device, letting you connect to that website. 

The only issue that these servers could have is that what they're doing is illegal, by using modified software or even reverse-engineering the software that could lead to an infringement of the rights of the IP(intellectual property) holder being the publisher/developer. In which case they could issue a take-down request if they so wish. However regular users shouldn't worry about it as they aren't doing anything wrong.

Edited March 14, 2018 by joskeabzu

[NathanielJohn]

14 minutes ago, joskeabzu said:

 

Without a "DNS" you simply cannot connect to any other server or website for reference without knowing it's exact IP address. DNS translate IP addresses into domains. A "Domain Name Server" contains information about the domain-name, attached with an IP adress, so that your PC/console/etc. can use that information to connect to that IP address. It's like how websites works, if you type in www.PSNProfiles.com the "DNS" will look up it's IP address and will return that information to your device, letting you connect to that website.

 

I'm well aware of what DNS is. Yes, your PS4 obviously needs to be able to access DNS to use the internet, but that is not the same thing as Sony putting in a feature that lets you use custom DNS. There are devices that force you to use the domain name servers provided by your ISP.

 

The fact that Sony put in a custom DNS feature in the first place shows that they are OK with people using custom DNS.

Edited March 14, 2018 by NathanielJohn

[joskeabzu]

33 minutes ago, BeautifulTorment said:

I woulf love to see this done for Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising and I would also be interested in seeing how it affects games whosr servers contain save data (Crysis 2). If it starts you over from scratch that'd offer me a potential fix for my long-glitched Modern Art trophy that is tied to data saved server side. Does anyone know how we vould start looking into this stuff?

 

If the data is stored on a another server and by using a "DNS" you simply would loose all progress as that savedata is not available on that "new" server. So you would have to start from scratch.

[TerraTanium]

I think that using a revived server is fair game and shouldn't be flagged. The trophies were earned legit it's the same area as boosting IMO.

[joskeabzu]

32 minutes ago, NathanielJohn said:

 

I'm well aware of what DNS is. Yes, your PS4 obviously needs to be able to access DNS to use the internet, but that is not the same thing as Sony putting in a feature that lets you use custom DNS.

 

The reason could be as simple as a DNS that is currently down or you could not simply connect to it or is overloaded, others reasons could be that it's either blocked by your country/ISP or for whatever other reason there is. Not having that feature where you cannot setup a custom DNS is just bad overall. Also if they wouldn't put that in, your PS4 wouldn't even be able to connect to PSN... As the OS on the PS4 will require that information automatically or manually.

Also putting in " a feature, that you call it", but not allowing it sounds incredible dumb.

Edited March 14, 2018 by joskeabzu
typo