Game of Thrones - last season, episode comments - SPOILERS -

[TheLakota]

22 minutes ago, BG_painter said:

he claimed it was feminism before, don't you think that is a political claim?   feminism is a political activism movement of the extreme left nowadays...

 

Please read my initial post. I essentially said both were doing it; we need to drop the tribalist identitarian chest thumping. 

[sephiroth4424]

17 minutes ago, rolltideroll157 said:

Dear god this generation is annoying. Nitpicking or getting offended by everything. Just enjoy the greatest show ever made because I doubt we will have anything that even comes close to this show again in our lifetime.

Apparently you haven't seen Breaking Bad.

GoT started losing quality from the moment it caught up the books.

Like Tyrion 

[BG_painter]

Just now, sephiroth4424 said:

Apparently you haven't seen Breaking Bad.

GoT started losing quality from the moment it caught up the books.

Like Tyrion 

VERY TRUE.
I was not a member of the forum when I started watching GoT. I h8ed the series in season 2 and 3 for it being to different from the books, then i just stoped caring and comparing. Accepting it as a diferent media with different creators is just better. Sometimes i think George r r martin will not finish the series and will just let the shop be the end of it. :/

[rolltideroll157]

10 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Apparently you haven't seen Breaking Bad.

GoT started losing quality from the moment it caught up the books.

Like Tyrion 

I Have seen breaking bad and loved it but nothing even compares to game of thrones it’s in a league of its own.

[Dauersack]

1 hour ago, BG_painter said:

@Nighcisama I don't know, Nigh, are you really willing to be reasonable or to listen to what ppl are saying? You said that I am not willing to engage.... that i might not even be capable too.... but did you read my past posts? It actually counters all your points without AD HOMINEM.

Read what I said:

 

I think I should make myself a bit clearer then. I said I know you are able to have this kind of discussion, which means I respect you from other threads and posts in this forum and I know you are not a simpleton. I know you can have a real discussion because we actually had one before, so you not really engaging, in my opinion, would have been due to you choosing a bad hill to die on and not really having good arguments for your liking of this episode, so you just threw in a meme just to say something. I would have understood that because I myself like some things most people think are crap, and I can't always explain it rationally to them either. I did not really consider your mentioned reply to be aimed at me because, quite frankly, it is unusual to see you give that weak of a reply. You basically just say that Sansa is strong willed and sweet, which has nothing to do with the points I made about the episode, you said the Mormont scene was pure fanservice which does not help the fact it was over the top and a bit dumb, and then said how you want more Tyrion and jon. This barely adressed anything I said.

 

1 hour ago, BG_painter said:

You have all the right to be upset at the episode and to be raging on it, but that doesn't mean we have shitty opinions for liking it or for thinking it was okay or good. I posted a meme with an intention of making the conversation less "heavy". Some ppl find it funny, some don't.  All of the ppl here in the thread disagree with your opinion that it is feminism. All of the ppl of thread pointed their opinion regarding what you said as well. If you are going to accept or not, fine. I don't care, know1 does. We don't need to prove you anything, we don't need you to validate our opinion. Also I will post a very nice video, Liana Kerzner, a feminist, explaining why Arya is not a May Sue. I agree with some things she says in the video but she has valid points.  That is it.. I drop my case.

 

EDIT: Also i will ad, you sound like some troll o know of this forum. For a moment I thought he was using your acc. But nvm it

 

I already regret even mentioning the word feminism, because it seems to melt peoples brains to have a discussion about any other point made, but then again, If i had just criticized Arya normally, some dumbass like that one guy above having a stroke on his keyboard would probably have thrown in something to aim it in that direction, like me only bashing her because she is female, not because her whole characters actions and abilities are bullshit. Regarding the video, alright if you want to split hairs on how the term Mary Sue is used, then fine, I can admit that it is too specific of a term to accurately describe Arya. The woman in the video still misses the point by a mile though, and I will adress that in a reply to someone else because he makes the same wrong assumption.

57 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

I understand you calling out @Nighcisama for being upset a female killed NK with a dagger (gasp!!!), but why even bother fighting fire with fire by trying to make an obviously apolotical television series political?

Honest question, did you even read what I wrote? If yes, you kinda missed the point, so I will explain it as clear and simple as I can so that not even the most hardcore of white knights can interpret it in a wrong way without looking dumb. You ready? This goes to the woman in the video too because she said the same stuff.

Alright here it is, pay attention. Arya killing the night king is shit for mainly 2 big reasons, that she is female is not technically one of them, but I agree the fact she is a few inches away from being a female dwarf is not exactly helping the matter either.

1. She was not a chosen person to destroy the Night King. All the prophecies around Jon killing him or Dany being the queen of Fire, the counterpart to the Night kings ice, all for naught. I would have complained just as much if someone like Sam or Theon killed the night king, I mentioned that already. So, unlike the woman in the video assumed, I was not expecting Jon to kill the night king because "that is a mans job" but because you could write entire books about how he seemed destined for this task. I would have had no problem if Dany ended up playing a major role in his demise, but any other character than Jon (the prince who was promised), male or female, soloing the night king is crapping all over what was said before.

2. The way she did it. Superman flying into the night king and then stabbing him with a simple move like switching the dagger into another hand, all while no one around gave a fuck. If it was at least a team effort, like she helping other people like Theon, Clegane or even Jon so you have 3-4 talented fighters trying together and they eventually overcome the Night King and his impressive bunch of bodyguards, then I would not be as mad if Arya got the finishing blow. Instead, she just flew in and finished the night king like he was some scrub. I mentioned feminism because I could think of no other reason for the writers to just give that feat to an entirely unsuited character, and in such a stupid manner too, crapping on 8 seasons worth of buildup and thousands of years worth of this worlds prophecies. It seems to be a trend in the USA at the moment with all that captain marvel crap flooding around, woman comes in, has all the abilities and can save the day in an instant. With that going on I assumed it had something to do with it, because it sounded familiar. The fact that Arya had turned from a novice runt into the most efficient profi killer in the world in a few months mainly cleaning and practice fighting seemed worth mentioning, as well as the overall quality of the series noticeably decreasing the moment there is a big abundance of queens and female rulers.

 

But i agree that this subtopic is not going anywhere so I am willing to give up on it, if only to have the critters that get hung up on it crawl back into their holes. So since I am no longer allowed to talk about how insanely dumb it is to have Arya come in like a superhero and oneshot the night king, because women seem to be above getting called out for being written badly, is there anyone wanting to defend the idiotic battle strategies too?

 

29 minutes ago, Charizarzar said:

@Nighcisama I’m interested if you consider Jon a Marty-Stu for being battle ready after one ride on a dragon? 

I would, if he actually did anything of note this episode. Battle ready implies that he did more than hang on the dragon while mostly flying around aimlessly and switch the direction once or twice. You maybe could argue that the blood of the dragon dynasty had something to do with him being too comfortable for his second dragon ride, but you don't even have to because Jon was useless this episode, like literally useless. That being said, yeah generally speaking Jon is op and it is a bit lazy, always has been. He survived many things thanks to plot armor, and even the one thing he did not survive didn't stop him, he was a bit too talented at fighting and people flock to his cause too easily if you ask me. He went through a hell of a lot more training and actual fighting in his life than Arya though, he had actual losses in battle to learn from and he is a chosen person with a big prophecy behind him. Yet he still gets shit on by Arya in terms of skill and impact last episode, which is something people should take a moment to think about.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nighcisama

[TheLakota]

Not going to bother typing a response on my phone or I'll be on the toilet all night breaking your post down. 

 

Never done this before, but:

 

I'd like to invite you to have a discussion with me @Nighcisama on either Discord or PS4 party chat. Let me know if you're interested. 

 

[matigrosso91]

I think some people here are missing the fact that Benioff and Weiss used to know how the books will end. Martin himself told them, not only because the series go faster than he writes, but just in case he die before he finish it (literally). Besides a lot of diferences between books and the series, almost all the main events will be esencially the same. And again, we have three episodes left, we didn't even know how this will end! And yes, in the books there'll still be differences, because there are many characters or situations that could change and Martin could even make another ending, he's the creator of Westeros. But it's not like they're improvising, they've stablished how the series will end already at Season 3 (their words, not mine).

 

You don't like how Arya kills the NK? It's ok, it's on you. But go from there to call one of the biggest and greatest series ever made "fanfiction" it's a little to much. I'm finished with this dumb discussion. I truly enjoy the episode besides the evident flaws and i can only wish Sunday came as soon as possible.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

Wonder if we'll get a proper GoT game after the series is done.  I actually bought the RPG a while back but ended up just not playing it.

[Tianna_Mortis]

40 minutes ago, matigrosso91 said:

I think some people here are missing the fact that Benioff and Weiss used to know how the books will end. Martin himself told them, not only because the series go faster than he writes, but just in case he die before he finish it (literally). Besides a lot of diferences between books and the series, almost all the main events will be esencially the same. And again, we have three episodes left, we didn't even know how this will end! And yes, in the books there'll still be differences, because there are many characters or situations that could change and Martin could even make another ending, he's the creator of Westeros. But it's not like they're improvising, they've stablished how the series will end already at Season 3 (their words, not mine).

 

You don't like how Arya kills the NK? It's ok, it's on you. But go from there to call one of the biggest and greatest series ever made "fanfiction" it's a little to much. I'm finished with this dumb discussion. I truly enjoy the episode besides the evident flaws and i can only wish Sunday came as soon as possible.

 

That's what has made me laugh about this whole discussion. Martin sat the writers down and went over his notes about the story is going to end, both as a whole and for each character. For all we know. Arya killing the NK was his plan all along just because he seems to have a flare for knowing what will piss people off (haven't read the books, but if the show is any indication). Whether or not this was before or after the rumored rewrite of the ending due to someone on the internet figuring out the correct ending, who knows. The only thing Mart has ever expressed unhappiness with is that this is the final season, but has also stated he understands why. So, we can assume he is happy with the way things are turning out, or at least isn't unhappy enough to raise a stink about it like many authors have done in the past.

[MooseSketts]

I am thoroughly disappointed.

 

@Nighcisama I don't know how current feminism (feminism-now) is in Germany, but in the United States it isn't good which is why some people get "melted brains".  That aside, I think you either missed or have forgotten the character developments of some of the characters you mentioned - in this instance Arya - and how she does fit her role.  This discussion, and previous ones from past seasons, have been civil and if you had "criticized Arya normally" I don't think anyone here would have attacked you.  I think the reason some people are not engaging you directly and coming off abrasive is because politics (feminism) got brought up into the conversation.  In addition, it would seem you are refusing to at least understand where other people are coming from with their opinions when they clearly do not agree with yours.

[sepheroithisgod]

When I watched the episode, I was really into it. I knew there were problems, but ignored. Then after thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that the episode is a trainwreck when you remove the hype.

1st and foremost, the military strategies implemented were straight up terrible. Why would you send the Dothraki into the darkness against forces that were reported to outnumber you? The simple answer, to remove the horses from the episode. No seriously, horses cost a lot of money and make filming more difficult. They killed them for this reason. Instead, the Dothraki should have been behind lit trenches with flaming bows. The walls of Winterfell should have been full to the brim in general. The number of traps set up was inadequate, but even the military strategy wasn't the worst part.

2ndly, Arya killing the Night King in the manner she did made no sense. Watch the scene before it happens. You can clearly see the Night King walk away from his lieutenants and zombies. There is an army behind him. There are multiple feet between the Night Kings back and this army. It is a big empty void of space with just snow in between. It is not possible for Arya to appear out of thin air and try to stealth kill the Night King.

3rdly Jon got sidelined this episode. His entire story arc has been about fighting the threat beyond the wall from the very beginning. He has clashed multiple time with the undead forces, yet, he did absolutely nothing this episode(yes, there is a case that he brought everyone together) except ride a dragon and walk into a clear ambush. 

4th We literally learned absolutely nothing about the Night King. Not his motives, not the weird relationship he has with Bran, Nada.

I could go on, but it is what it is. Maybe if the books ever get released we can the real war.

[damon8r351]

I don't watch the show. I was reading the books back in the 90s when I stumbled upon A Clash of Kings in a bookstore and said, Hey this looks interesting. I also don't read this thread.

 

Anyway, I was listening to people talking about Game of Thrones, it seems like the show never adequately explained who The Night King was, and what his motivations were. People were arguing about what his (its?) deal was, and I was confused because this was obliquely explained in the books if you understand foreshadowing. At one point in A Storm of Swords (?), Bran recalls a story told to him about The Night's King. He was the 13th Lord Commander of the Wall, living thousands of years before the present day of the books, and was heavily implied to be a Stark. He fell in love with a woman that sounds like one of The Others from the description given. Afterwards, he declared himself a king and ruled with an iron fist from the Nightfort, one of the strongholds at the Wall. He corrupted the Night's Watch and horrific atrocities were committed until he was brought down by the King of Winterfell and the King-Beyond-The-Wall. It was discovered that he was making sacrifices to the Others. This is also the reason why, whenever the strongholds at the Wall are mentioned, it's pointed out that none of them have defensive walls. They wanted to make sure that if the Watch got compromised like that again, it would be easy for armies coming from the south to restore order.

 

Knowing this, it's a pretty fair assumption to make that the show intended this same Night's King to have somehow escaped death and returned thousands of years later to fulfill the standard Dark Lord fantasy trope, which is really fucking cheesy. I really hope the books didn't go through all this rigamarole just to pull some crappy Dark Lord From Behind The Wall crap.

Edited May 2, 2019 by damon8r351

[matigrosso91]

59 minutes ago, damon8r351 said:

I don't watch the show. I was reading the books back in the 90s when I stumbled upon A Clash of Kings in a bookstore and said, Hey this looks interesting. I also don't read this thread.

 

Anyway, I was listening to people talking about Game of Thrones, it seems like the show never adequately explained who The Night King was, and what his motivations were. People were arguing about what his (its?) deal was, and I was confused because this was obliquely explained in the books if you understand foreshadowing. At one point in A Storm of Swords (?), Bran recalls a story told to him about The Night's King. He was the 13th Lord Commander of the Wall, living thousands of years before the present day of the books, and was heavily implied to be a Stark. He fell in love with a woman that sounds like one of The Others from the description given. Afterwards, he declared himself a king and ruled with an iron fist from the Nightfort, one of the strongholds at the Wall. He corrupted the Night's Watch and horrific atrocities were committed until he was brought down by the King of Winterfell and the King-Beyond-The-Wall. It was discovered that he was making sacrifices to the Others. This is also the reason why, whenever the strongholds at the Wall are mentioned, it's pointed out that none of them have defensive walls. They wanted to make sure that if the Watch got compromised like that again, it would be easy for armies coming from the south to restore order.

 

Knowing this, it's a pretty fair assumption to make that the show intended this same Night's King to have somehow escaped death and returned thousands of years later to fulfill the standard Dark Lord fantasy trope, which is really fucking cheesy. I really hope the books didn't go through all this rigamarole just to pull some crappy Dark Lord From Behind The Wall crap.

 

 

Actually, they showed the Night King creation, and also said (including Martin himself) that the NK and that Night's King are not the same. But it's alwayns nice remember stories from the books. Martin really should publish at least Winds of Winter.

[iGGTheEnd]

I cant believe people are pissed about Jon Snow not killing the knight king and I am even more surprised that people didn't expect it.  If you have watched this show for 8 season how on earth do you think the most obvious thing would happen,  this show constantly throws curve balls.  I am surprised Jon was even brought back to life because it was so obvious that they would I thought that they would stray away from that.

[damon8r351]

30 minutes ago, matigrosso91 said:

 

 

Actually, they showed the Night King creation, and also said (including Martin himself) that the NK and that Night's King are not the same. But it's alwayns nice remember stories from the books. Martin really should publish at least Winds of Winter.

 

Such as this one: Aegon I and his sister-wife Visenya were once attacked on the streets of King's Landing by Dornish assassins. After the attackers were subdued, Aegon argued that his guards were still sufficient to ensure his safety. Visenya drew Dark Sister (which is a fantastic name for a sword), cut Aegon on the cheek, and said "Your guards are slow and lazy." And thus the idea for the seven knights of the Kingsguard was born.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

I watched a short vid on the NK's death again on an article, love reading about theories, and there's 2 things I didn't notice the first time around.

 

1. I didn't notice Jon Snow yelling "Go" while facing the zombdragon. I thought he just yelled.

2. The general's hair blew forward as if something was running by.

 

^the article, combined with the little details, suggests that Jon knew Arya was trying to get by and he was going to sacrifice himself to make sure she was able to pass by undetected. The general's hair and whooshing effect could have been Arya hauling ass lol. The writers could definitively tell the viewers the little details we're looking for though.

[Gibbo_0113]

1 hour ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

I watched a short vid on the NK's death again on an article, love reading about theories, and there's 2 things I didn't notice the first time around.

 

1. I didn't notice Jon Snow yelling "Go" while facing the zombdragon. I thought he just yelled.

2. The general's hair blew forward as if something was running by.

 

^the article, combined with the little details, suggests that Jon knew Arya was trying to get by and he was going to sacrifice himself to make sure she was able to pass by undetected. The general's hair and whooshing effect could have been Arya hauling ass lol. The writers could definitively tell the viewers the little details we're looking for though.

 

Interesting theory. How close was Jon to the tree though? Believable distance?

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

1 minute ago, Gibbo_0113 said:

Interesting theory. How close was Jon to the tree though? Believable distance?

 

Don't know. I would say it was fairly close considering the NK was basically 30-50 feet from Bran and Theon from what seemed like part of the castle. (at least that's the distance it looked like when they showed a zoomed out view before Theon's death charge) If Arya was where Jon was before he took cover behind the rock then at full speed it would be stretching it a bit, but the NK did the retarded villain thing and took his time making taking any sort of action except to intercept Arya mid-air.

 

There are other theories out there regarding the death of the NK and if Bran had something to do with it, but we'll have to see in the next 3 episodes.

 

 

[Hakoom]

when arya left the room she was locked in with the hound and the witch ( not today ) part

there was just 1 entry correct? and that entry was sealed by the hound and had zombies behind it

 

my guess is arya used a window to exit and moved along the castle top ground and jumped in at the night king from there

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

1 minute ago, Hakoom said:

when arya left the room she was locked in with the hound and the witch ( not today ) part

there was just 1 entry correct? and that entry was sealed by the hound and had zombies behind it

 

my guess is arya used a window to exit and moved along the castle top ground and jumped in at the night king from there

 

That's one thing about the scene that bugged me. My very first impression was that because it's Arya's home she knew some secret way out, and let's be honest old time-y castles like that are riddled with secret passage ways, but the Hound and Red Woman just stood there like she poofed into thin air lol. In the end it makes more sense that she found an exit because the other 2 were just fine. 

[Hakoom]

3 minutes ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

 

That's one thing about the scene that bugged me. My very first impression was that because it's Arya's home she knew some secret way out, and let's be honest old time-y castles like that are riddled with secret passage ways, but the Hound and Red Woman just stood there like she poofed into thin air lol. In the end it makes more sense that she found an exit because the other 2 were just fine. 

 

the other 2 where just locked up in the room behind that door he sealed with a bookshelf or a chair

there has to be some secret path or from the window

my guess is the window for sure thats the only way you can pass the NK security is the high ground

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

4 minutes ago, Hakoom said:

the other 2 where just locked up in the room behind that door he sealed with a bookshelf or a chair

there has to be some secret path or from the window

my guess is the window for sure thats the only way you can pass the NK security is the high ground

 

Up until the tree scene at least. I still stand by the fact that the army was on stand down orders by the NK so reacting to Arya wasn't going to happen.

Doesn't explain Jon yelling "go" though.  Maybe he spotted Arya up high and figured the dragon would too given its height. 

 

Speculation makes things fun lol.  

[hsn963]

Meanwhile, Fuhrer  is not very pleased with the episode:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Hakoom]

39 minutes ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

 

Up until the tree scene at least. I still stand by the fact that the army was on stand down orders by the NK so reacting to Arya wasn't going to happen.

Doesn't explain Jon yelling "go" though.  Maybe he spotted Arya up high and figured the dragon would too given its height. 

 

Speculation makes things fun lol.  

 

that is also true the zombies wont move until given the command.. but the generals move by there own will i think 

 

regarding the "go" part i rewatched it and i cant say for sure.. the subtitles say "yells"

we will see if this is explained in the next ep or not

[BG_painter]

9 hours ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

I watched a short vid on the NK's death again on an article, love reading about theories, and there's 2 things I didn't notice the first time around.

 

1. I didn't notice Jon Snow yelling "Go" while facing the zombdragon. I thought he just yelled.

2. The general's hair blew forward as if something was running by.

 

^the article, combined with the little details, suggests that Jon knew Arya was trying to get by and he was going to sacrifice himself to make sure she was able to pass by undetected. The general's hair and whooshing effect could have been Arya hauling ass lol. The writers could definitively tell the viewers the little details we're looking for though.

1. I didn't hear that either ?

 

Regarding the article, I know you like video game references, I read something like this in utube:

 

If GoT was a multiplayer session:
The Hound: had all max stats, lv 99, AFK the whole game, comes back resumes gameplay while insulting every1 on the mic.
Arya: Speedrun the whole session, lv 50, double jump wall glitch, cheese the boss in a one-hit kill.