The Ribbon System • Part 2

[XmodE_7]

I'm down nice feature, will bring a fresh new air to the website.

[Terra]

I’m all for this. However, 50% should be the limit for the rarity. Sure some games with a 60% platinum rarity make take effort but not as much compared to other games.

[Sofa King]

Ribbons aren't going to show you anything more than what looking through someone's profile will, they'd just make it more at a glance.

[AJ_Radio]

34 minutes ago, Sofa King said:

Ribbons aren't going to show you anything more than what looking through someone's profile will, they'd just make it more at a glance.

 

So what? 

 

I think a few changes would make the Ribbon system more credible. 

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to look at someone else’s ribbons. You can hide your account if you so choose.

[Cordawg411]

I think the mere fact that we are being ask to vote on the arbitrarily selected 50% or 75% tells you all you need to know about this system. I spent over 60 hours swinging around and enjoying the heck out of Spider-Man yet I "didn't put in any effort" because plenty of people enjoyed the game enough to earn all the trophies. The criteria for this ribbon simply don't make sense (gets even weirder for games with multi-region stacks), please do not implement this.

 

As for the other ribbons, I think you're on to something as they are not entirely subjective and add a quick summary of particular feats.

[PFinchen]

19 minutes ago, Cordawg411 said:

I think the mere fact that we are being ask to vote on the arbitrarily selected 50% or 75% tells you all you need to know about this system. I spent over 60 hours swinging around and enjoying the heck out of Spider-Man yet I "didn't put in any effort" because plenty of people enjoyed the game enough to earn all the trophies. The criteria for this ribbon simply don't make sense (gets even weirder for games with multi-region stacks), please do not implement this.

 

As for the other ribbons, I think you're on to something as they are not entirely subjective and add a quick summary of particular feats.

 

I mean, the rarity definitions imposed by both this site and by PSN themselves are effectively arbitrary, they are round-type numbers but that’s it. Landmark trophies are also arbitrary by that standard, the 4,000th trophy is only more relevant than the 4,001st trophy because one is a more round number than the other, yet I’ve rarely heard users lobbying to have those removed. 

[Cordawg411]

5 minutes ago, PFinchen said:

 

I mean, the rarity definitions imposed by both this site and by PSN themselves are effectively arbitrary, they are round-type numbers but that’s it. Landmark trophies are also arbitrary by that standard, the 4,000th trophy is only more relevant than the 4,001st trophy because one is a more round number than the other, yet I’ve rarely heard users lobbying to have those removed. 

The only part that's qualitative on PSN is the designation and usage of the words "Common," "Uncommon," "Rare," etc. These designations and cut-off points are relatively meaningless. Why? Because we have better data. Quantitive data. Data that is binary. Did user unlock trophy? Y/N. Data that tells you what % of players have unlocked this trophy and what % of PSNP users have unlocked this trophy?

 

I'm all for handing out a ribbon if you earned an UR platinum trophy as that is a cool feat. I'm all for handing out a ribbon to those who complete a game 100%. What I do not understand nor condone, is some arbitrary cutoff point that determines if I "put in effort" to play a game and earn the trophies for several reasons. 1) I'll call this the Spider-Man effect. The current platinum % is above 50% and yet the game took me well over 50 hours to earn all of the trophies. Under the proposed system threshold, I will not earn a ribbon of effort. 2) There are several games where the platinum % varies greatly between regions. Why should anyone earn a ribbon of effort simply because they bought a game from one region and not the other? 3) While I admit this probably doesn't happen all too often, there are certainly niche genres like a schmup where the enthusiasts of that genre are highly skilled and it won't be widely played. This would present a situation where the platinum % might be high because there is a specific audience of highly skilled people playing that game yet they won't earn a ribbon of effort?

 

In short, I am in favor of more statistics and ways to measure trophies. I am not in favor of making arbitrary assumptions that someone put in effort/didn't put in effort because 300 votes in a forum determined so.

 

PSS - Maybe my distaste for this ribbon of effort would be cured by renaming it/rebranding it? I really just don't like the rather dismissive "this game requires no effort" because platinum % is >50.

[Chocolat_GiddyUp]

I voted yes because it seems it would make all you dumb kids happy lolz.

 

Enjoy your ribbonz.

[B1rvine]

I think we should hold a another vote and get a Ribbon Part III.

 

Make a vote for the ribbon of rarity (whatever the one is at 5%) and vote for sub 1 vs 5%.

Make another vote for 50% or 25% for the ribbon of effort. 

 

 

[nyonmyan]

2 hours ago, Cordawg411 said:

I think the mere fact that we are being ask to vote on the arbitrarily selected 50% or 75% tells you all you need to know about this system. I spent over 60 hours swinging around and enjoying the heck out of Spider-Man yet I "didn't put in any effort" because plenty of people enjoyed the game enough to earn all the trophies. The criteria for this ribbon simply don't make sense (gets even weirder for games with multi-region stacks), please do not implement this.

https://psnprofiles.com/guide/7818-marvels-spider-man-trophy-guide

3/10 difficulty

http://www.powerpyx.com/marvels-spider-man-2018-trophy-guide-roadmap/

2.5/10 difficulty

https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/marvel-s-spider-man/329689-marvels-spider-man-trophy-guide-roadmap.html

3/10 difficulty

 

Yeah, that doesn't look like an "effort" game.

[Arcesius]

I voted against the implementation, not because I care (because it wouldn't affect me or my way of playing in any way whatsoever), but because I don't understand what it is trying to accomplish. 

 

• If the goal is to have leaderboards withouth easy games, fix the rarity leaderboard. 
• If the goal is to display one's accomplishments, implement a "game cabinet", not unlike the "trophy cabinet", and make milestones customizable. That way, everyone can display what they subjectively think is worth something (to them). This is a highly subjective matter anyways. 
• If the goal is to show the amount of UR, Rare, etc... platinums / 100% games at a glance, then just allow to customize the "rarest trophies" thing to show number of games per category (including 100%) instead of number of trophies. 
• If the main problem are the 6-stack 5-minute plats, then implement a leaderboard with merged stacks. I'm sure the "problem" wouldn't be this pronounced if every single game only counted once regardless of region. 

 

Implementing the ribbons as proposed above seems somewhat arbitrary, especially with the 50% cutoff. 

 

But the majority seems to be in favor of implementing the ribbons. In that case, I would also want to make it optional (I would personally probably enable them) and customizable. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Arcesius

[MisterGibraltar]

Voted no after weighted them out. While 100% ribbons are needed, ultra rares and sub 1% are cool, but I really dislike the ribbons of effort, as much as it outweigh the others.

 

I know it's bad analogy though it's like you put them trophies in a classroom. Consider more than 50% as grade F. You try to kick grade F kids and then pander to D kids (uncommon) to be as equal as says B (very rare). Then you brag to another teacher of a class next to you "Ha! What a loser. Your class has 35 F kids more than mine!" while your own class has like 2 C kids and the rest are Ds. No, trophies shouldn't work that way to begin with. You're just a jerk of a teacher. Trophy isn't like secondhand shoes where they'll degrade with more people wear them. You guys can branded those stacked-EZPZ-heavies profiles without the need of these ribbons before, why need it now?

 

If the 4th ribbon slot's really needed, I suggest switch ribbon of effort to customizable ribbon of choice (or some customizable milestones as above mentioned). Could be from genre, game series, or game company. Like "ribbon of JRPG", "ribbon of Assassin's Creed", "ribbon of Bandai Namco", or like "FIFA Grand Slam" as I saw from other topic. Otherwise I don't really see benefit of this ribbon of effort outside of ability to detect "EZPZ scum" at first glance.

[freddie1989]

1 hour ago, Arcesius said:

• If the main problem are the 6-stack 5-minute plats, then implement a leaderboard with merged stacks. I'm sure the "problem" wouldn't be this pronounced if every single game only counted once regardless of region. 

 

This line sticks out for me. Personally I think the 'effort' element of the ribbon idea is why I like it. We are all prone to an easy game here or there and most likely enjoy it BUT these stupid 5 minute plats are not fun the 1st time and nor are they the 6th time. They are purely a way of saying 'look at me' and I like that this gets rid of that nonsense. Just my uninteresting take on it.

[ZenRhino]

A couple of further thoughts :

 

1) I think I read somewhere from Mango that this feature wont show on our Trophy Cards, just on the top bar when someone actually clicks on your page?

 

If that's the case, then why not just have the information in the side bar? It leaves the top bar uncluttered and you could fit a lot more useful information in the side bar unit.

 

2) A lot of people seem quite upset at the name 'Ribbon of Effort'...I actually get that as it does imply there there is zero effort in anything above 50%. I assume even the often mentioned Rata games must require some effort, even if it is reading a guide!

 

Rather than the names suggested so far, how about using ribbons that follow the normal colouring conventions used in games?

 

Ultra Rare - Gold

Very Rare - Purple

Rare- Blue

Uncommon & Common - White

 

I've lumped Uncommon & Common together. I wouldn't like to see Common coloured grey...Spider-man is not vendor trash!  Also, I think doing it this way doesn't isolate anybody who plays the games they enjoy whatever the difficulty, yet it gives people the chance to show off those really special platinums below 20% rarity.

 

3) I think the divisiveness of the ribbon system, as evidenced in the thread, make it essential that there is an opt-out function.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by ZenRhino

[Maxie_M0us3]

Shouldn’t we have the default 50% cutout for the Ribbon of Effort, but then it’s manually set exceptions due to how lengthy it takes? For example Spider-Man, it takes many hours to complete it, but though an easy and common rarity within PSNP. I don’t know how we may find the perfect cut-out balance. How about 60% or lower to earn a Ribbon of Effort? Or may should be change the ribbon’s name and meaning?

 

Remember, earning a commun platinum doesn’t seem that the game is bad. It’s all subjective.

Edited August 6, 2019 by MaxieM0us3

[Sofa King]

7 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

So what? 

 

I think a few changes would make the Ribbon system more credible. 

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to look at someone else’s ribbons. You can hide your account if you so choose.

I've already said I'm all for the ribbon system, my point is that they don't represent anything that's not already visible on your profile so I don't get the backlash over them. 

[thefourfoldroot]

Seems to be so many people who care about what others may or may not think about them! This proposal is just an easy "at a glance" way of showing information already included in a profile. I'd find it helpful to have it on my trophy card. I also like increasing number so going for 100% completion on games would be far more rewarding to me than it is now, and having a ribbon showing any mildly rare plats I have would be nice. I couldn't care less about what others think of my relatively poor haul, nor do I care about what other people have. If people's only complaint is that other people may judge then 1) they already can and 2) people need to get over themselves honestly. It's also completely voluntary.

 

I do like the idea of some more customisable cabinets. Honestly, if there was more functionality I'd be more than happy to pay for membership. Some of the suggestions though sound like they'd be a lot of work, especially such things as merging stacks.

Edited August 6, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[Cordawg411]

6 hours ago, nyonmyan said:

https://psnprofiles.com/guide/7818-marvels-spider-man-trophy-guide

3/10 difficulty

http://www.powerpyx.com/marvels-spider-man-2018-trophy-guide-roadmap/

2.5/10 difficulty

https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/marvel-s-spider-man/329689-marvels-spider-man-trophy-guide-roadmap.html

3/10 difficulty

 

Yeah, that doesn't look like an "effort" game.

Thank you for clearly proving that "effort" is entirely subjective.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Cordawg411
typo

[nyonmyan]

9 minutes ago, Cordawg411 said:

Thank you for clearly proving that "effort" is entirely subjective.

True, it is subjective!

 

50% Ribbon is a great idea, but its current name is rather misleading.

[Maxie_M0us3]

4 hours ago, nyonmyan said:

50% Ribbon is a great idea, but its current name is rather misleading.

 

How would you call it?

[Cassylvania]

It does seem like a lot of problems would be solved if you were simply awarded a ribbon for each rarity (e.g. Ribbon on Commonality, Ribbon of Uncommonality, Ribbon of Rarity, and Ribbon of Ultra Rarity). Those names aren't great, but I did like that one idea someone suggested of awarding a bronze ribbon for common platinums, silver for uncommon, gold for rare, and platinum for ultra rare. That accomplishes the same thing as the proposed system, without intentionally excluding games for arbitrary reasons.

 

The side bar module makes more sense than the already cluttered top bar.

 

And, really, all those side bars should be customizable, since this topic clearly shows that not everybody values trophies the same. Let the users use that area to show off what they want people to see on their profiles "at a glance."

[nyonmyan]

 

12 hours ago, MaxieM0us3 said:

 

How would you call it?

50 -cent Ribbon

 

Spoiler

 

[AJ_Radio]

13 hours ago, Cassylvania said:

It does seem like a lot of problems would be solved if you were simply awarded a ribbon for each rarity (e.g. Ribbon on Commonality, Ribbon of Uncommonality, Ribbon of Rarity, and Ribbon of Ultra Rarity). Those names aren't great, but I did like that one idea someone suggested of awarding a bronze ribbon for common platinums, silver for uncommon, gold for rare, and platinum for ultra rare. That accomplishes the same thing as the proposed system, without intentionally excluding games for arbitrary reasons.

 

The side bar module makes more sense than the already cluttered top bar.

 

And, really, all those side bars should be customizable, since this topic clearly shows that not everybody values trophies the same. Let the users use that area to show off what they want people to see on their profiles "at a glance."

 

I think the issue a lot of people here have and why they're downvoting this system is because it may create an air of entitlement.

 

Someone who is hardcore and goes after a lot of challenging games and platinums will probably have a lot more ribbons than someone who casually trophy hunts, generally going after easy going AAA games like Marvel's Spider-Man and Days Gone. I prefer a mixture of both, playing a few challenging games to get more satisfaction out of them and playing some more easy going stuff to relax.

 

Personally I don't think there should be ribbons for common platinums that fall anywhere from 50 to 75 percent rarity. In Marvel's Spider-Man's case yes, I think that deserves a ribbon of some sort because it takes around 25 - 30 hours to platinum the game, plus a good 10 - 20 hours to get all the DLC finished (including New Game Plus on Ultimate difficulty). A few point and click games that fall under the 50 to 75 percent threshold that can be completed in under five hours I don't think deserves anything. Because with a walkthrough guide in hand anybody can get the trophies and platinum.

 

This helps distinguish the platinums that fall under Ultra Rare and so forth from the amount of Ultra Rare trophies a trophy profile has. Someone with say 500 Ultra Rare trophies could have 30 - 50 games with an Ultra Rare platinum. I'm definitely in support of that and it helps mark the achievements we have accomplished.

 

I also think that if someone doesn't want to see the ribbons, there is an option on their profile to turn off the ribbons and they can just see the standard stats and trophies. But to outright say I'm quitting over the Ribbon system being implemented is outright stupid and ridiculous.

[mekktor]

13 hours ago, Cassylvania said:

It does seem like a lot of problems would be solved if you were simply awarded a ribbon for each rarity (e.g. Ribbon on Commonality, Ribbon of Uncommonality, Ribbon of Rarity, and Ribbon of Ultra Rarity). Those names aren't great, but I did like that one idea someone suggested of awarding a bronze ribbon for common platinums, silver for uncommon, gold for rare, and platinum for ultra rare. That accomplishes the same thing as the proposed system, without intentionally excluding games for arbitrary reasons.

 

I have hated pretty much everything about the original ribbons idea and what it stands for, but I could get behind something like this 100%. This alternative idea gives pretty much the same information (more even) but without singling out a certain types of games (or gamers) as being unworthy, and like you said, arbitrarily.

 

Well ok, not quite 100%. I'm not a fan of those names. How about just calling them bronze/silver/gold/platinum ribbons? Maybe that would be too confusing, I don't know.

[thefourfoldroot]

If people feel less uncomfortable have ribbons for each platinum rarity that's fine too. It's a shame it's necessary as plats were supposed to denote a certain level of difficulty or industry anyway, but I do feel we are at the point where this site adding such a thing is helpful. I know I can just go into each of my games and hunt down the plat rarity, but it's s faff. I don't see how people could object to this without having to object to the bronze, silver, gold and plat trophy demarcation too.

Edited August 7, 2019 by thefourfoldroot