woggly4

[imho] This remake is a masterpiece, but here's why I'm still a little sad (spoilers inside)

20 posts in this topic

First of all: There are spoilers in this thread. But for readability reasons I will not use the spoiler tag. So be warned, if you never experienced Mafia 1 before!

 

 

I'm a huge fan of the Mafia series and Mafia 1 was one of my "childhood games" that made me love videogames with great stories. I always hoped I could be able to play it on the Playstation at some point. When they announced the remake I was hyped, but still a little afraid they could mess it up. However, after finishing it I can say: Not only the original release is a masterpiece, but the remake itself is as well! I really love the story extensions and few little details they've added here and there. They really found the sweet spot between new content and keeping the old. Sometimes they've changed the storyline pretty drastically in terms of background story or companions during missions but it actually makes sense, the story becomes more logical, richer in depth and it often explains why they're acting in a certain way.

 

But, and here's why I'm still a little sad: They could've taken over the spirit even more. I kind of dislike how videogames these days are structured. You will get a target and just run to the marker. I hate the marker in the remake because it's even visible in the classic mode. "Happy birthday" was my favorite mission on the original release because you had to figure out how to get on the boat in the first place. On the boat you had to figure out where the toilet is and how to get inside. In the remake you just get the target to find the skipper and the first crew member you speak to will grant you a marker leading towards him (seriously, the first?!). However, you can explore the boat and you will find a toilet that is "out of order" but if you just follow the marker you will miss that and if you don't know the original game there's no point to search for it if you already know where to go. I loved the mission back in the days because you had to find where to go and what to do, and that's also true for a few other missions. Now, this mission is just running to the marker.

 

In the brothel mission it started really nice that you had to figure out the room of the girl in question and I liked that you had to sneak behind the counter and read the note to find out. While reading I was like "woah, you need to remember the room number, great!" But after closing the prompt I already got a big fat marker in my sight, bummer! Why not making me search the room as every room displayed its number anyway?

 

On the other hand there is the cigar/diamonds mission (on a side note, this mission makes a lot more sense in the remake) were you actually had to find the correct spot. There were several spots you could check but only if you read the note you would know immediately where to search. It would've been cool if they would've designed more missions like this. I don't know why in today's videogames everything is explained and shown on screen. I want to explore it myself! I had a blast to find the first two secret cars by just looking at the postcard and finding the place on my own and I will enjoy finding the rest too for sure.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love this remake and the cutscenes after the shootout in the gallery hit me harder than the original and I see why Hangar13 designed the missions as they did to please everyone and not only Mafia veterans but it makes me a little sad because it could've been even better. Anyhow, I still think this remake is a masterpiece of a masterpiece. Well done, H13. Well done! And if they ever make a Mafia 4, and I hope they do, I hope they learn from this remaster. Thoughts?

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It is a great game, but original Sam was way better, remade Tommy and Paulie get a pass. Oh and old soundtrack missing, that's a bummer. 

Everything else is excellent. 

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As for the marker I don't find it intrusive, and on the boat you apparently got lucky - there are several crewmates and for me either 2nd or 3rd said that the Janitor was drinking in the engine room. And same as the Brothel room 208 I don't mind the game pointing you there once you've discovered it... Rather than writing it down or such - but Tommy read/heard and now knows where to go.

 

The areas where I find it failing are some general mechanics falling short even from M2 or M3. For example the AI is at best average, and especially on Classic the fact they don't recoil when shot is just bs. For example if you peak after a shotgunner fired and hit him 2-3 times (ludicrous not to kill) he won't even flinch and keep going possibly one-shoting you. Enemies generally behave as if on an ON/OFF switch i.e. alive (no matter how seriously suppressed and being actively shot) or dead. The wounded crawling and twitching on the ground from M3 was a 'nice' realistic touch in M3.

 

Driving gets a pass, there's a reason for 1930's car handling like trash but in some parts it's just overkill, half the reason the race mission is hard is due to excessively poor input controls.

 

I've had several sound/visual glitches but most of this gets a pass due to it being a €30 remake. I'm satisfied with what came out and glad to have played it but for me it's a 7.5/10.

 

I too hope there will be full AAA Mafia 4 in the works for next-gen, hopefully the best so far and going back to the 1930/40's era.

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Don't know about the rest but the shooting in this game is appalling. It's so shit it kills the joy out of a great game.

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Game looks great though the story to me has been pretty uninteresting so far, then again I platted Mafia 2 on ps3 with the same feelings.

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:40 PM, Ptirle said:

It is a great game, but original Sam was way better, remade Tommy and Paulie get a pass. Oh and old soundtrack missing, that's a bummer. 

Everything else is excellent. 

As someone who has only played the remake, how was original Sam better?

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Posted (edited)

 

22 hours ago, ChunkyKong64 said:

As someone who has only played the remake, how was original Sam better?

Better in every aspect, voice, dialog, and looked older, dunno, new Sam is young and seems off somehow. 

Edited by Ptirle
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7 hours ago, Ptirle said:

 

Better in every aspect, voice, dialog, and looked older, dunno, new Sam is young and seems off somehow. 

Gotcha.

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I’ve never played the original Mafia. But i just think this game is mediocre at best to be honest. I’ve platinumed both Mafia 2 PS3 and Mafia 2 PS4. And although there are hardly any glitches in this Mafia, i enjoyed Mafia 2 more by an absolute mile. Better story, better missions, better dialogue. Just better everything except graphics. The only thing that let it down was the poor state it was in. But even then i still prefer it. 

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On 3/10/2020 at 2:08 PM, ChunkyKong64 said:

As someone who has only played the remake, how was original Sam better?

I've played both games and can tell you that this is not Sam. Looks-wise it may be a pass, though original Sam was more mature looking, but what really makes this Sam terrible is his character design. Original Sam was loyal to the family no matter what, he never asked Tommy to do what he does in the Corleone Hotel mission, he never ever questioned the Don despite being really a friend to both Tommy and Paulie. Sam's utmost loyalty to Salieri versus the friendship with Tommy and Paulie is what made the final mission even more tragic, this Sam is a pushover that is doing what he does out of fear, not loyalty. 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Falken-N7 said:

I've played both games and can tell you that this is not Sam. Looks-wise it may be a pass, though original Sam was more mature looking, but what really makes this Sam terrible is his character design. Original Sam was loyal to the family no matter what, he never asked Tommy to do what he does in the Corleone Hotel mission, he never ever questioned the Don despite being really a friend to both Tommy and Paulie. Sam's utmost loyalty to Salieri versus the friendship with Tommy and Paulie is what made the final mission even more tragic, this Sam is a pushover that is doing what he does out of fear, not loyalty. 

Thank you for the elaboration. Wonder why they made those changes. Maybe an artistic interpretation kind of thing?

Edited by ChunkyKong64
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On 5/10/2020 at 10:36 AM, ChunkyKong64 said:

Thank you for the elaboration. Wonder why they made those changes. Maybe an artistic interpretation kind of thing?

No idea, but it really disappointed me. It may very well be a misinterpretation of the original Sam by the guys at Hangar 13, it may be a political decision, it may be to make him look like a negative character to a new extent...dunno, but it really sucked. Too bad because I liked the game a lot

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On 27.9.2020 at 7:04 PM, woggly4 said:

First of all: There are spoilers in this thread. But for readability reasons I will not use the spoiler tag. So be warned, if you never experienced Mafia 1 before!

 

 

I'm a huge fan of the Mafia series and Mafia 1 was one of my "childhood games" that made me love videogames with great stories. I always hoped I could be able to play it on the Playstation at some point. When they announced the remake I was hyped, but still a little afraid they could mess it up. However, after finishing it I can say: Not only the original release is a masterpiece, but the remake itself is as well! I really love the story extensions and few little details they've added here and there. They really found the sweet spot between new content and keeping the old. Sometimes they've changed the storyline pretty drastically in terms of background story or companions during missions but it actually makes sense, the story becomes more logical, richer in depth and it often explains why they're acting in a certain way.

 

But, and here's why I'm still a little sad: They could've taken over the spirit even more. I kind of dislike how videogames these days are structured. You will get a target and just run to the marker. I hate the marker in the remake because it's even visible in the classic mode. "Happy birthday" was my favorite mission on the original release because you had to figure out how to get on the boat in the first place. On the boat you had to figure out where the toilet is and how to get inside. In the remake you just get the target to find the skipper and the first crew member you speak to will grant you a marker leading towards him (seriously, the first?!). However, you can explore the boat and you will find a toilet that is "out of order" but if you just follow the marker you will miss that and if you don't know the original game there's no point to search for it if you already know where to go. I loved the mission back in the days because you had to find where to go and what to do, and that's also true for a few other missions. Now, this mission is just running to the marker.

 

In the brothel mission it started really nice that you had to figure out the room of the girl in question and I liked that you had to sneak behind the counter and read the note to find out. While reading I was like "woah, you need to remember the room number, great!" But after closing the prompt I already got a big fat marker in my sight, bummer! Why not making me search the room as every room displayed its number anyway?

 

On the other hand there is the cigar/diamonds mission (on a side note, this mission makes a lot more sense in the remake) were you actually had to find the correct spot. There were several spots you could check but only if you read the note you would know immediately where to search. It would've been cool if they would've designed more missions like this. I don't know why in today's videogames everything is explained and shown on screen. I want to explore it myself! I had a blast to find the first two secret cars by just looking at the postcard and finding the place on my own and I will enjoy finding the rest too for sure.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love this remake and the cutscenes after the shootout in the gallery hit me harder than the original and I see why Hangar13 designed the missions as they did to please everyone and not only Mafia veterans but it makes me a little sad because it could've been even better. Anyhow, I still think this remake is a masterpiece of a masterpiece. Well done, H13. Well done! And if they ever make a Mafia 4, and I hope they do, I hope they learn from this remaster. Thoughts?

As a big fan of the original, i noticed that too, but it didn't affect me in any way, since i know you can't just do that kind of mission design anymore. People are way too frustrated these days and if this game gets the reputation of being old fashioned, the hardcore fans would be the only ones buying it.

 

Some changes to the narrative are the things, i struggled with. Every single character's personality is worse than they were in the original, except for salieri himself, sarah and maybe vincenzo. Tommy has high moral values and is clearly a victim. He'd never try to take revenge on morellos guys after they destroyed his cab. Sams changes were already pointed out a few posts earlier, but they even changed paulie. In this game it looks like he's kinda stupid. Also the friendship between paulie and tommy isn't as clear as it is in the original. The big pros of the remake are obviously the visuals, stealth mechanics and some level designs. Just for relaxation was one of my least favorite levels in the original. Now, when they turned it into a stealth level, i enjoyed it way more. There are a few levels or level sections though, which i prefer in the original:

- You could avoid the car chase in daily routine with shooting the tires of the escaping car. That's not possible here.

- The final cutscene of the whorehouse mission was really epic, now he looks kinda stupid, being blown out of the window.

- Visiting rich people was kinda tactical, because you could give orders to salvatore. Now he doesn't move at all, until you cleared the last area. You didn't even have to take out everyone in the original.

- Creme de la Creme had 2 different ending possibilites. The remake has basically a third one (none of the 2 existing ones), they extended the common one of the original.

- Moonlighting was cut too short. You don't even scout the bank before you start the heist.

 

And the biggest downgrade is the removal of tommy's monologues. He questioned himself every time, and that made him a better person than the new tommy. Also the final dialogue in the epilogue was way deeper than it is now.

 

Don't get me wrong. I still enjoyed this remake. It's a really good job by hangar 13, and the result in total didn't disappoint at all. I would rate this game a 8,5-9/10 but the original is the only game in the world i would still rate 10/10

Edited by westersburg
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This game is no masterpiece at all. Its a buggy mess for me. Lots of sound problems, frame drops and even game breaking bugs. It needs a lot of updates. Even Mafia 3 ran better for me (after updates).  

 

Only the story is nice actually. 

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@Alex_Gorbatschow For real? Didn't encounter any major problems on my playthrough. Are you sure you're talking about Mafia 1? 😅

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3 hours ago, woggly4 said:

@Alex_Gorbatschow For real? Didn't encounter any major problems on my playthrough. Are you sure you're talking about Mafia 1? 1f605.png

 

i swear i had more bugs than in mafia 3. For now im stucked in "happy birthday" chapter and i cant move my charachter. I cant even restart this chapter because Hanger 13 was too stupid too implement a "restart chapter" function in the menu. Only when you fail the mission you can do that , but how should I if i cant even move my character??? This is the last time I bought a game less then one month after release. For me this remake is a failure in its current state.

Edited by Alex_Gorbatschow
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Did you try chapter select from the main menu? However, that's pretty weird. As said, I didn't encounter any bugs. Maybe they made things worse with the newest patch? I played through the game before the free ride extension patch.

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13 minutes ago, woggly4 said:

Did you try chapter select from the main menu? However, that's pretty weird. As said, I didn't encounter any bugs. Maybe they made things worse with the newest patch? I played through the game before the free ride extension patch.

 

this could be possible. I found many people on reddit who have the same issue. They said replaying previous chapter doesnt work. I also dont want to lose progress because I started on classic difficulty and hated the damned race. I fear that replaying can break the trophy on this run for me.

Edited by Alex_Gorbatschow
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Yeah I noticed that too but it only bothered me once in that mission where you are inside a big yellow circle and you need to find and steal a customs truck. I was like cool let's start searching, 5 seconds later a big marker appeared. I got a little annoyed.

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:04 PM, woggly4 said:

"I don't know why in today's videogames everything is explained and shown on screen."

 

 


1. Because developers are heavily influenced in decisions by Management that want everything accessible to the casual gamer. In the past...the developers essentially were the management...so they were completely free to make design decisions in the way an artist would make design decisions...and not in the way a corporate business would make design decisions. The relationship between the two is really, really magical sometimes. If in balance..the business side can temper the art sides lean towards being too eccentric and the art side can step in an override the businesses lean towards making everything cookie cutter and financially predictable. The current market is weighed much too heavily in the direction of decisions based on short-term financial gain and unrealistic time constraints for profit. They are literally killing their own ability for long term profits in exchange for short term gains.

2. There are WAY too many people making decisions. Games do the absolute best when they have 1 to 3 people with a SOLID vision before a single computer turns on to start working on it. Games with vision are usually conceived of by great story tellers. Great story tellers have a gift to create an atmosphere where not a whole lot has to be spelled out in the most boring and rookie way possible. Great story tellers have the ability to pack in vast amounts of information in one or two words...and a lot of the time...with no words at all. They have the ability to create motivation in the player to the extent where it is absolutely clear what it is that they must do...and want to do...in order to complete the objective..without pulling them aside and saying "You do this..then do this..then we give you a nice little trophy after you've done the things we told you exactly how to do". Then its the developers job to provide the tools to follow that motivation to its conclusion. Teams of people in a boardroom making decisions is a recipe for the most bland and trite mechanics we see in gaming. Whenever you have people making a game...and in their meetings...most exchanges start out with "Well...the data suggests that players....."....your game is going to suck.

3. Unrealistic time constraints for the sake of short term profit. Want to kill a great idea? Put it in the hands of a bonus incentivized board member with zero experience in development and put him in front of a potential investor. 

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