Microsoft exposed trying to kill PlayStation

[Rozalia1]

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/26/23774547/microsoft-sony-xbox-internal-emails-ftc-out-of-business

 

 

The above used to have a redacted email, but we now have gotten to see. Literally states they're in the position to spend Sony out of business. Considering the story is running through Tom Warren, who has been a Microsoft mouthpiece in this, and in the comment section of the site (and elsewhere) you can already see the defences sprouting up, it can be assumed that Microsoft is trying hard to damage control this. What is the defence? That Booty is once again just thought experimenting and that the start of his email shows that he some lone actor at Microsoft. Everyone else is against Booty's view. Microsoft are good guys! Here is the thing with such a claim. Day and date on gamepass is something everyone who gives it one single thought, and isn't a Xbox fanatic or shill, knows that it is just bad business. Guys at Microsoft know this more than anyone else as they have the numbers, so they've been getting annoyed and been wanting to reverse course. In comes Booty who tells them that such a thing should not happen as it will cause people to lose faith in game pass and kill their whole strategy, whose ultimate goal is destroying the competition and establishing a monopoly lets not forget. What is the current state of things? Day and date is still in effect. If Booty really was a minority in this is irrelevant, they've clearly gone with his suggestion. Microsoft has also been buying up massive amounts of the game industry, and has boasted they'll buy even more, which is clearly carrying out Booty's plan of "spending Sony out of business".

 

It should be clear to anyone who simply doesn't want to accept it be it because they're honest fans, or bought and paid for shills, that Microsoft aims to use their money to take control of gaming. It should also be clear at this point how seemingly easily fooled Microsoft's management seems to be by their Xbox division. It is well known that Spencer fooled them with the game pass monopoly dream. Greenberg is getting paid a fortune and the man does next to nothing. Booty meanwhile can convince them when they're wavering to not only stay on track, but invest even more into the money pit. Xbox management are completely incompetent on the matter of games, but they are certainly quality when it comes to scamming Microsoft... well, maybe not... might be as easy as just saying the word "monopoly" and Microsoft gives them whatever they want.

 

The below in the spoiler is what the body of this post used to be, before we got to see the email completely. I've kept it around as it shows Microsoft's ever shifting story on these emails in the updates.

 

Spoiler

 

Microsoft’s head of Xbox game studios, Matt Booty, told Microsoft’s chief financial officer for Xbox, Tim Stuart, that the goal of the Activision deal was to drive PlayStation out of business. Perhaps as part of the effort to convince Microsoft management to put down the money for the deal. It has taken this long to get seen because Microsoft has worked hard to keep it sealed and away from the public. Their flood of irrelevant documents also hasn't helped in finding this quicker because going through millions and millions of documents takes a long time. We can thank the people involved in what is called the "gamer's lawsuit" for getting this out. Gamers winning once again, and everyone laughed and said they were stupid for doing such a thing.

 

Anyway. Microsoft and their astroturfing has already started and will be making the case that obviously a top guy at Xbox wants to run PlayStation out of business. So does the guys at PlayStation to Xbox. Sure. The issue is when you do these buyouts like Activision, doing them with the goal of driving your competitor out of business is a big no no. Everyone of course knows that Microsoft wants to do that, but having it official is bad, hence their lies that this is about 'competing' and 'giving value to consumers'.

 

Fun fact: https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/12/23505078/xbox-phil-spencer-sony-growth-comments-activision-blizzard. Phil Spencer accused PlayStation of wanting to grow by making Xbox smaller, all while doing this deal as part of the goal of destroying PlayStation. Pure projection.

 

I know some, not those involved in astroturfing, talking real people, have really wanted to believe (thanks to Microsoft's massive PR efforts) that Microsoft has really changed and aren't like the Microsoft of old. This deal thus far has not shown that they've changed, and now with this it should be clear they haven't. "Embrace, extend, and extinguish". All their efforts be it in their gamepass, the buyouts, are in service of trying to destroy the competition so they can get their precious monopoly in gaming at last. They can't it seems get their monopoly by putting in good work, so they'll do as they've always done and simply spend their way to it.

 

UPDATE 1: Microsoft initially stated that such a email was not something to be seen and that they had no further comment on it. They now have commented: https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1671304215006773257?s=20. Whoever the representative is has told the reporter that they can't give any details, but the email is from 2019. A couple of things with that. First off considering Microsoft's conduct thus far and known love for PR it would not be shocking if this nameless representative is simply lying to the reporter (note, not a court of law), or more accurately 'telling the truth as far as they know it' which is a cute trick. Second, if the date truly is 2019 then that doesn't change anything regardless of what the green guys and Microsoft's agents are saying. 2019 already had Microsoft at work and they bought up 7 companies in the 2018-2019 period. ZeniMax was first announced in 2020, but from what I recall from the time period the word was that ZeniMax had been negotiating with several parties for a significant amount of time (wasn't rapid like with Activision) so possibly they may have come up in the above, again, if this faceless representative is telling the truth. Whatever the case, the fact remains that what is in the email is that Microsoft is seeking mergers with the aim of driving PlayStation out of the market. Keep in mind that if no such thing was attested to in the email then Microsoft's reaction would not have only been to deny it entirely (which they have yet to do), but they'd then likely seek to go after the "gamers" on top of that for essentially slandering them with a made up lie.

 

UPDATE 2: Microsoft has now given details: https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1671534671266562050?s=20. The content in the email was a "thought experiment". Again, they do not deny that Booty talked of buying out companies to ultimately kill PlayStation, he was just thinking it out loud I suppose. It is also just mere coincidence that Microsoft has been carrying out what the "thought experiment" says they should do. Something also worth pointing out is... why does it specifically mention the infamous 10 year deals? If it was in 2019 as the mystery representative said then why not just say it was before the Activision deal? The implication to me is this formless representative is not being honest.

 

UPDATE 3: The "thought experiment" is now instead an "old strategy". https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1671924523946450944?s=20. Just lie after lie which exposes the previous lies as lies.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Rozalia1
Update to the story

[MidnightDragon]

Not surprised at all. If you genuinely thought they weren't out to bring down PlayStation eventually, you're a damn fool or an XBox fanboy. A zebra never changes its stripes after all. This proves all their PR fluff is bullshit, which you knew if you weren't a total MS sheep. They just made the quiet part out loud. Hopefully the group suing to make this public is successful. The damage control MS would be forced to do is insane and I'm sure the regulators won't be too pleased about it. That being said, I don't think Activision and Bethesda alone would be enough to kill off PlayStation, but there's a lot of things MS could still do and they know it. Either way, this is far from over. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[AJ_-_808]

Redaction is kindof bs. Should be forced to reveal

[MidnightDragon]

1 minute ago, AJ_-_808 said:

Redaction is kindof bs. Should be forced to reveal

The people filing the suit are probably also trying to get that made public.

 

And have you ever noticed those loudly accusing someone of doing something wrong is usually actually doing it themselves?

[HoorayForTyler]

Their first mistake was thinking they could even get close to doing that in the first place. 

[Silocia]

It doesnt matter what Xbox do I wont ever be going back to them.

 

I moved away because of their absolute disaster Xbox one reveal. Phil then spent 10 years crying about how Playstation didnt want to play with Xbox and constantly flaming the console wars while also stating its a silly notion and it shouldnt be a thing. They buy studios just to kill them when they dont instantly perform instead of investing and guiding studios and then possibly buying them out at a later date and now buy two massive studios while crying about how much of a victim they are WHILE then locking out Bethesda titles from Sony again after 10 years complaining Sony were doing the same thing. 

 

I know I wont get to play Starfield or possibly any other Bethesda title but I'd rather that be the case than give those scum bags any money.

[majob]

4 minutes ago, HoorayForTyler said:

Their first mistake was thinking they could even get close to doing that in the first place. 

Microsoft buying Activision would actually give them the tools to do so because Call of Duty is by far one of the most popular games in the world and being able to monopolize that IP as a platform holder gives MS a massive advantage. That's why they constantly refused concessions asking them to sell the IP, they knew what they were doing

[Viper]

I'm sorry...am I supposed to be surprised? 

 

I said this exact thing when Microsoft purchased Zenimax...it was painfully obvious, the Activision purchase only solidified that. You don't spend that kind of money on a studio just to play nice, which is also why it was so worrying about what PlayStation was losing in these purchases because you knew good and well we weren't going to be playing these games, no matter how much Phil Spencer was to use corporate jargon to make it seem like these games would come to PlayStation as well. But of course it started its own precedent with Sony buying up studios as well so they can stay on track. Sony knew what was going on. 

[majob]

Honestly, the real question is does this news have ANY legal impact on the acquisition case?

[MidnightDragon]

1 minute ago, majob said:

Honestly, the real question is does this news have ANY legal impact on the acquisition case?

Not a lawyer, so honestly don't know. It's possible it might be brought up in the preliminary injunction case, but don't know.

Edited June 20, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[Rozalia1]

28 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

Not surprised at all. If you genuinely thought they weren't out to bring down PlayStation, you're a damn fool or an XBox fanboy. A zebra never changes its stripes after all. They just made the quiet part out loud. Hopefully the group suing to make this public is successful. The damage control MS would be forced to do is insane and I'm sure the regulators won't be too pleased about it. That being said, I don't think Activision and Bethesda alone would be enough to kill off PlayStation, but there's a lot of things MS could still do and they know it. Either way, this is far from over. 

 

It likely wouldn't be enough, but part of the "strategy" as this says. As we know, Microsoft boasted previously that they were going to do more buyouts after Activision. To me the plan they have, which was made before they got the shock that the FTC/CMA are really daring to try and change how antitrust has functioned for a long time, was to buy up all of the major western publishers. That to me is why Microsoft has argued so strongly the matter of them being a small % of the overall gaming market which factors in consoles, PC, and mobiles. If I recall correctly with Activision they'd be 11%. 40-50% tends to be where you start hitting problems so they'd be able to just keep buying towards that amount.

 

23 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

The people filing the suit are probably also trying to get that made public.

 

And have you ever noticed those loudly accusing someone of doing something wrong is usually actually doing it themselves?

 

Smart to attempt to do so because Microsoft may well desist just to not have it completely in writing their latest attempt to run someone out of business with their sheer wealth.

 

It is called projection. It is also a tactic certain political figures use which involves attacking the enemy where you yourself are weak to muddy things up. Xbox obviously is trying to grow by making PlayStation smaller, so accuse PlayStation of wanting to grow by making Xbox smaller with your PR machine. With that such a thing is now out there about PlayStation and if someone brings up Xbox clearly doing that then it becomes 'both do it', which is better than simply Xbox doing it. Spencer has done this sort of tactic against PlayStation on a number of things such as: diversity of games when Xbox has historically been the most vanilla platform genre wise. On crossplay when Xbox was who blocked it off for a long time.

 

16 minutes ago, majob said:

Microsoft buying Activision would actually give them the tools to do so because Call of Duty is by far one of the most popular games in the world and being able to monopolize that IP as a platform holder gives MS a massive advantage. That's why they constantly refused concessions asking them to sell the IP, they knew what they were doing

 

The best part of all of that was them lying that King was the reason they were doing the buyout. The CMA told them they could have the deal go through if they got just King. Microsoft rejected it.

 

19 minutes ago, Silocia said:

It doesnt matter what Xbox do I wont ever be going back to them.

 

I moved away because of their absolute disaster Xbox one reveal. Phil then spent 10 years crying about how Playstation didnt want to play with Xbox and constantly flaming the console wars while also stating its a silly notion and it shouldnt be a thing. They buy studios just to kill them when they dont instantly perform instead of investing and guiding studios and then possibly buying them out at a later date and now buy two massive studios while crying about how much of a victim they are WHILE then locking out Bethesda titles from Sony again after 10 years complaining Sony were doing the same thing. 

 

I know I wont get to play Starfield or possibly any other Bethesda title but I'd rather that be the case than give those scum bags any money.

 

Agreed. The extreme level of console warring they do is annoying, but worse than that is all the gaslighting they do as you say. 

 

12 minutes ago, Viper said:

I'm sorry...am I supposed to be surprised? 

 

I said this exact thing when Microsoft purchased Zenimax...it was painfully obvious, the Activision purchase only solidified that. You don't spend that kind of money on a studio just to play nice, which is also why it was so worrying about what PlayStation was losing in these purchases because you knew good and well we weren't going to be playing these games, no matter how much Phil Spencer was to use corporate jargon to make it seem like these games would come to PlayStation as well. But of course it started its own precedent with Sony buying up studios as well so they can stay on track. Sony knew what was going on. 

 

No of course not. Anyone not pretending otherwise knew that this was the goal all along. Up to this point however 'where is your evidence of this'. Now we have from Microsoft's own chicken lips that they're doing this deal (and obviously all their other ones, past and future) are about driving PlayStation out of business.

 

1 minute ago, majob said:

Honestly, the real question is does this news have ANY legal impact on the acquisition case?

 

Preliminary injunction I believe should allow it. The CAT case is murky to me. Normally no as new evidence can't be presented, but Microsoft made the case to allow them to present brief evidence. The CMA can then I believe present stuff themselves, but I believe it'd have to relate to what Microsoft is putting forward. Ultimately though, if the CAT does side with the CMA then the CMA can then just cite this as further evidence of why there needs to be a block.

[Viper]

3 minutes ago, majob said:

Honestly, the real question is does this news have ANY legal impact on the acquisition case?

It can definitely be used to strengthen the case against Microsoft. I can sit here all day talking about how I already knew this was their plan...but to have actual proof in writing is pretty damning, especially to being used as evidence as coercion for creating a monopoly. 

[FullMetalSarok]

I had no insider knowledge but it just felt so obvious to me that this was the motive all along for the recent Bethesda acquisition and attempted Activision acquisition. 
any reasoning and press interviews were clearly just Microsoft blowing smoke. On a base level all that I could keep thinking was that virtually every single one of those games were already available on Microsoft consoles to begin with, it wasn’t a move to benefit Microsoft just to harm the opposition 

[MidnightDragon]

Still can't wait to see how Microsoft's spin doctors try to paint this in a positive light.

[HoorayForTyler]

23 minutes ago, majob said:

Microsoft buying Activision would actually give them the tools to do so because Call of Duty is by far one of the most popular games in the world and being able to monopolize that IP as a platform holder gives MS a massive advantage. That's why they constantly refused concessions asking them to sell the IP, they knew what they were doing

That makes a lot of sense, but enough to kill PlayStation? I don’t think so. Too many great aspects about the PlayStation to put it in a position of failure. The day Xbox overtakes PlayStation is the same day Sony comes out guns blazing with new innovations.

 

I will say that Xbox is kind of already playing a unique hand with Bethesda exclusivity. It’s beyond tragic that we can’t play Starfield on release, for example. We might not be able to play it ever tbh. It’s within the rights of studios to get exclusivity deals with entertainment companies, but at the end of the day we’re the ones who suffer because of it. 
 

One thing’s for sure though…I’ll never switch to Xbox. I’ve had a 360 and One X, and to put it bluntly, they felt inferior to PlayStation in every way.

[MidnightDragon]

11 minutes ago, HoorayForTyler said:

That makes a lot of sense, but enough to kill PlayStation? I don’t think so. Too many great aspects about the PlayStation to put it in a position of failure. The day Xbox overtakes PlayStation is the same day Sony comes out guns blazing with new innovations.

 

I will say that Xbox is kind of already playing a unique hand with Bethesda exclusivity. It’s beyond tragic that we can’t play Starfield on release, for example. We might not be able to play it ever tbh. It’s within the rights of studios to get exclusivity deals with entertainment companies, but at the end of the day we’re the ones who suffer because of it. 
 

One thing’s for sure though…I’ll never switch to Xbox. I’ve had a 360 and One X, and to put it bluntly, they felt inferior to PlayStation in every way.

I doubt it would kill them entirely, but it would weaken them. It would take more. And not going back to XBox either. Still, as much trouble as this acquisition has caused MS, I wouldn't be surprised if they hit the brakes for a short time. As for me, I don't really care enough about Activision stuff except maybe Spyro, but once there's a new Spyro, then we can talk. Just worried about the future repercussions.

Edited June 20, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[dieselmanchild]

Microsoft lost the war when they hired a guy called Matt Booty to run Xbox Game Studios.

[foxische]

Legal documents would call Sony Interactive Entertainment instead of Sony PlayStation. I’d take the internet yellow pages with a grain of salt, thought the reasoning can still be valid 

[sepheroithisgod]

In other news, the sky is blue.

[LastMinuteSavior]

And yet, look who came crawling back.

 

The entire Bethesda catalog back on PS Plus and the Activision games still on the PS Store.

 

 

Bitchbox.

 

[majob]

52 minutes ago, HoorayForTyler said:

That makes a lot of sense, but enough to kill PlayStation? I don’t think so. Too many great aspects about the PlayStation to put it in a position of failure. The day Xbox overtakes PlayStation is the same day Sony comes out guns blazing with new innovations.

Quite honestly it's feasible. COD is a huge link in the playstation chain, the revenue they get from the sales and MTX are what help fund their own game development. MS taking that away not only removes that revenue but also pushes more consumers to their platform, people that primarily only play COD and they exist, and that's a massive blow to Sony. Being forced to innovate when your bread and butter is third-party software and not first party software like Nintendo wouldn't work out as well as people think.

21 minutes ago, LastMinuteSavior said:

And yet, look who came crawling back.

 

The entire Bethesda catalog back on PS Plus and the Activision games still on the PS Store.

 

 

Bitchbox.

 

Those are only grandfathered games, not any future Bethesda titles

[LastMinuteSavior]

6 minutes ago, majob said:

...not any future Bethesda titles

 

Their loss.

 

Lets see how long shareholders will allow that business strategy to continue.

 

[majob]

Just now, LastMinuteSavior said:

 

Their loss.

 

Lets see how long shareholders will allow that business strategy to continue.

 

They won't care. MS can eat the financial loss with a smile on their face if it means more market share

[MidnightDragon]

23 minutes ago, majob said:

Quite honestly it's feasible. COD is a huge link in the playstation chain, the revenue they get from the sales and MTX are what help fund their own game development. MS taking that away not only removes that revenue but also pushes more consumers to their platform, people that primarily only play COD and they exist, and that's a massive blow to Sony. Being forced to innovate when your bread and butter is third-party software and not first party software like Nintendo wouldn't work out as well as people think.

Those are only grandfathered games, not any future Bethesda titles

Maybe, but if I had a dollar for every time someone predicted the demise of any of the big three, would be rich. Only time will tell.

Edited June 20, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[SnowxSakura]

It's pretty telling that not a single xbox subreddit is talking about this document at all