DLC Rarity Change

[Satoshi Ookami]

I think it's fine how it is. if the dlc trophy is common, then it must be easy to get. I don't really get why people care about average rarity anyway.

Are you serious with this comment or you're just trolling really badly?

 

I like that this suggestion is brought back.

While I do agree that both systems have their pros, the current system does NOT reflect actual difficulty of DLC trophies.

The example DrBloodmoney used is a very good one. 

 

If we take closertim's comment as a stance instead of trolling, then the DLC rarity we have now is misleading and not helpful at all.

If you see a Common trophy, you expect it to be easy, which with this system does not work at all.

Even if we bring back the PSN DLC rarity system, I don't believe every DLC trophy would suddenly become UR.

 

I mean... we don't change anything if some game become UR even though it's easy. My example would be Lone Survivor.

The Plat is already UR because of huge number of owners but is anything changed? Nope, because people decide not to pursue trophies for it.

So why can't DLCs be the same? People either decide to go for them or not.

Again, others already said it, completionists will buy them because they count towards Completion percentage and nothing would change for non-completionists.

So... all in all, completionists would have more UR trophies but... isn't that expected?

 

 

(Btw, this is probably the first thread with post that has over 20 likes =D)

Edited February 23, 2015 by Satoshi Ookami

[Doom]

At this point I don't really care about how you calculate the DLC trophies rarity.

But I'd surely prefer consistency in the data and that everything accounts for the same values in the same way.

[Monk746]

I'm unsure of the level of standards and expectations on this site, but what about implementing a formula that is unique per game to tweak out the DLC trophies rarity values only?

 

Something like:

Platinum achievers 12% - 100% achievers 8% -  average 66.7% between those two statistics. 0.08/0.12=0.667 (rounded up)

 

Then implement this base average percent into the percentage of each DLC trophy through multiplication

 

Trophy #1 goes from 96.8% to 64.6%

Trophy #2 goes from 92.3% to 61.6%

Trophy #3 goes from  73.4% to 49%

Trophy #4 goes from 48.6% to 32.4%

 

The actual values of course would go from accurate (among DLC owners only) to a possibility if everyone had the DLC.

Granted I am rather tired (3:30 AM here), and haven't put much more thought into this than what's listed above, but there has to be some way to keep ALL members and visitors alike happy... In general that is.

[alebrego]

 Either the DLC trophies don't count against you unless you buy it, and the trophy rarities only include people who bought the DLC [...]

I'd like this way...

 

Btw, i think rarity and difficulty should be two separated things.

Rarity tells you how many people played that game achieves that trophy.

Difficulty tells you how much pain-in-the.ass that could be.

Like someone told before, Aabs common trophies are way easier than other common trophies, but everybody knows that, and everybody should evaluate the difficul of a trophy just like the guide-feature does( Aabs= 1/10 , Metal Gear Rising=9/10).

[influjensbahr]

i didnt read it all, but sometimes the way it is now is just weird. for example, if a DLC has only 1 trophy, its rarity will always be 100%. look at "two worlds 2" - the dlc trophy has 100% achievers here, but the psn rarity sony gives is 0.5%

[BeautifulTorment]

OP is right. If you own the game, you should be counted as an owner. The old way was much better. Both ways to calculate it are inaccurate, so may as go with the one that people like more. DLC trophies are rare, plain and simple.

[damon8r351]

Yourgamercards.net used to count DLC trophy rarity by the number of people that owned the game not by people who owned the DLC, so DLC trophies were relatively rare. One of my rarest trophies there was the one from the Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood DLC where you 100%'d every mission. But who cares, because the site's defunct. Anyways, there's a solution to all of this, but nobody will like it because it requires you to be truthful on the Internet.

 

 

If there was a way where we could note on our profile whether we own a DLC or not, even if we haven't earned trophies for it yet, that would fix the rarity. You own the DLC, then you click the little box on your profile that says you do, whether you have trophies or not for it. You don't own it, don't click the box, and it fixes the percentage completed for the game for you. Being that it requires a person to be truthful in reporting, you can see the problem. It's a broken system no matter which way you do it, so choose a way to do it and stick with it. No flip-flopping around. I'm for keeping it the way it is because it's no more broken than any other way of doing it.

Edited February 23, 2015 by damon8r351

[weeztha]

Like I've said before. If you own the game the you should be counted for any dlc trophies the game has. Not every game makes you pay for dlc's for 100% either. Like mirrors edge. So why separate ownership of dlc's from core games? Doesn't make much sense to me. Also if you play any pinball game or PAIN those dlc trophies are not easy to get and yet some are 100% common! There are plenty of other games like this as well.

If I own the game then I'm buying its dlc's if trophies are involved cause I always go for 100% anyways.

Yeah it's a bit frustrating to me to have dlc trophies that were a pain in the ass to get only to be rated as common but oh well I'm over it. Everyone has an opinion and this is mine.

[starcrunch061]

Don't count DLC for rarity. It would absolutely ruin any point in rarity. I agree with others that rarity is tricky, but allowing DLC to count for rarity would just completely ruin ANY meaning whatsoever. I would guess conservatively that 95% of DLC would be ultra rare, and wouldn't be surprised if that number was literally 100%.

 

Do what you want for completion percentage. Certainly, Sony does - I see those DLC trophies on all of my lists. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. But don't change rarity, unless you have a way of registering every person that has played the DLC (as opposed merely to those who have completed one trophy of DLC).

[daftprophet]

Yeah, I feel that it should be changed back, but I'm not too bothered by it.   

 

 

 

 

That's part of the problem. You can't tell how easy something is to get because of the rarity. 

 

Take Sonic Adventure for example. All the DLC trophies are common, so they must be easy right? Absolutely not. They're all incredibly difficult to get. There's even one that's identical to one in the main game, which is get all 130 emblems. In the main game, it's 3.29%, but the DLC version is 90.72%. They have the exact same requirements, one just requires that you own the DLC. 
https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/384-Sonic-Adventure/

 

Also, people care about average rarity for the same reason they care about any other stat, because they do. Different stats appeal to different people. Personally, I think it can be a fairly easy way to judge the kind of trophy hunter someone is. Since anyone can have a high completion percentage and plat count playing easy games. Tons of people artificially increase these stats by hiding games, or having alt accounts for harder games. I see the average rarity as a clearer picture of a person's skill, since you can't do anything to juke the average rarity. Even if you only add certain games with rare trophies, you still have to be good enough to earn them.

 

 

I think that's the problem.  You don't know my life!  You shouldn't judge people by their cover, son.

Edited February 23, 2015 by daftprophet

[ExHaseo]

 

Don't count DLC for rarity. It would absolutely ruin any point in rarity. I agree with others that rarity is tricky, but allowing DLC to count for rarity would just completely ruin ANY meaning whatsoever. I would guess conservatively that 95% of DLC would be ultra rare, and wouldn't be surprised if that number was literally 100%.

 

Do what you want for completion percentage. Certainly, Sony does - I see those DLC trophies on all of my lists. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. But don't change rarity, unless you have a way of registering every person that has played the DLC (as opposed merely to those who have completed one trophy of DLC).

 

Please read the whole thread next time. I've already made an argument as to why the current values don't make sense, and why having the rarities separate doesn't make sense. Here it is.

 

This is why I said that DLC trophies should count for every stat, or none of the stats. Splitting it like this, adds unnecessary confusion, and doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

If you go along with the frame of mind that DLC is just another part of the game, and is needed for 100%, just like any other trophy, then the DLC trophies ARE Ultra Rare.

Going along with this mindset. To me, changing their rarity just because fewer people have the DLC, is like if all the online trophies in games that needed an online pass, were suddenly changed to reflect the number of people who have obtained an online trophy. But that doesn't happen, because it doesn't make any sense to. Both situations are essentially the same. Some people opted to either buy the game new, or buy the online pass. Others decided to buy the game used, and decided not to buy the online pass.

 

I'll put it like this. Two people play inFamous. One person plays through only one time and does the evil route. They opted not to play twice for both trophies, it was their choice. Someone else comes along, and they do two playthroughs, one for each side. The good side trophy is now rarer, because out of these two people, one decided not to play through twice. I don't see why the situation should be any different for DLC. One person decides to buy the DLC and get a trophy, another decides not to. So the rarity for the trophy should reflect that. This is all given the frame of mind that DLC is just another part of the game, and is needed for 100%.

 

Going along with the frame of mind that DLC is separate from the game, then they shouldn't be calculated into any of your stats unless you buy it. Just like how a game isn't calculated into your stats unless you buy it.

 

They should be one way or the other. Like I said, the way they are now, it just punishes both sides and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[starcrunch061]

 

 

 

Please read the whole thread next time. I've already made an argument as to why the current values don't make sense, and why having the rarities separate doesn't make sense. Here it is.

 

 

 

 

Oh, my sincerest apologies. Apparently, the new rule is: differing viewpoint = unread thread

 

Your logic (though you apparently see it as unassailable) finds no purchase with me.

I for one think it's fine the way it is. 

 

Did you also answer this guy? After all, he also disagrees. How dare he?!? And, adding the next guy's opinion:

 

 

Please no. That would be horrible!

 

Rare trophies should be rare because they are hard to get not because people just never bought the DLC. If people don't have the DLC then there is no possible way for them to get the trophies, they aren't part of the 100% possible, they should NOT count for the rarity.

 

Better be careful! The TC has already made a universal argument that over-trumps any other discourse!

 

So let me repeat: I see NOTHING wrong with counting DLC for some stats, and not for others. It might not be the best system, but it's certainly not a bad one, and in no way introduces as much confusion as you suggest.

Edited February 23, 2015 by starcrunch061

[Ka-Pi96]

Please no. That would be horrible!

 

Rare trophies should be rare because they are hard to get not because people just never bought the DLC. If people don't have the DLC then there is no possible way for them to get the trophies, they aren't part of the 100% possible, they should NOT count for the rarity.

[Doom]

Please no. That would be horrible!

 

Rare trophies should be rare because they are hard to get not because people just never bought the DLC. If people don't have the DLC then there is no possible way for them to get the trophies, they aren't part of the 100% possible, they should NOT count for the rarity.

But as they are now almost no DLC trophy is rare because usually DLC is bought only by dedicated trophy hunters that will get the trophies no matter what.

Take Mirror's Edge for example.

The trophy Still Counting requires you to get 50 stars in time trials.

But in the DLC "Pure Time Trials" it goes beyond that and it requires you to achieve 75 stars with To Explore Strange New Worlds and 90 with Superstar

Still Counting is 4.84% rare.

To Explore Strange New Worlds is 30.13% rare.

Superstar is 27.33% rare.

 

It makes no sense on the difficulty side.

Edited February 23, 2015 by DocDoomII

[Xxleonardo97xX]

1. DLC should only count IF you have at least 1 earned trophy for that DLC (if you bought it) otherwise it wouldn't be fair to have super easy trophies as Ultra Rares, because they just aren't.

 

2. DLC increases your completion rate and decreases average rarity. IMO you can't have both, you either are beneficted in one or another.

 

3. DLC's are like games so the rarity should (and it is) be calculated by dividing the number of achiever ONLY by the number of DLC owners.

   

It's like a game, rarity=achievers/owners, no sense to increase the number of DLC owners (to a fake number really) just for completionists have two good stats.     

[Ka-Pi96]

But as they are now almost no DLC trophy is rare because usually DLC is bought only by dedicated trophy hunters that will get the trophies no matter what.

I think that is preferable to every single DLC trophy being <1% rarity or something stupid like that.

[STFUxDxD]

Please no. That would be horrible!

 

Rare trophies should be rare because they are hard to get not because people just never bought the DLC. If people don't have the DLC then there is no possible way for them to get the trophies, they aren't part of the 100% possible, they should NOT count for the rarity.

 

No. Rare trophies should be rare because fewer people have them.

[Xxleonardo97xX]

No. Rare trophies should be rare because fewer people have them.

 

It's ''fewer'' because the ones who pay DLC's to get trophies are in minority, if they buy games/DLC's just to get trophies then they should be given the rarity that people who bought the same software to get trophies.

[Shana Alter]

1. DLC should only count IF you have at least 1 earned trophy for that DLC (if you bought it) otherwise it wouldn't be fair to have super easy trophies as Ultra Rares, because they just aren't.

 

2. DLC increases your completion rate and decreases average rarity. IMO you can't have both, you either are beneficted in one or another.

 

3. DLC's are like games so the rarity should (and it is) be calculated by dividing the number of achiever ONLY by the number of DLC owners.

   

It's like a game, rarity=achievers/owners, no sense to increase the number of DLC owners (to a fake number really) just for completionists have two good stats.     

1. The DLC should count as you have the option to play it if you choose not to that is your own decision and in doing so you are indeed making those trophies rarer in that game.
2.  
3. So if someone played Star Ocean for a few hours got no trophies they shouldn't count, in my opinion if it is on your profile the game/DLC should count to lowering/increasing your completion and towards the rarity. 

[DrBloodmoney]

Nethier option is perfect, so thereare only two choices:

1. Do what the site currently does, which makes people who dont bother to play dlc havebetter looking profiles at the expense of making dedicated comletionists look worse.

2. Do what other sites do and make the rarity stat reflect the same as the game completion stats, making dedicated completionists profiles correct but make the people who neglect dlc's profiles look worse.

With either option one group or the other is going to look worse off than the other - i just cant for the life of me understand why a trophy hunters site would choose to make the lazier group look better at the expense of the group who puts in more work.

[alebrego]

MGS2 platinum:

PS3 Version: Very Rare

PSVita Version: Ultra Rare

 

Rarity is not a measure for difficulty, but for spread.

Deal with it or ask for a difficult-rating-poll system 

[ExHaseo]

Oh, my sincerest apologies. Apparently, the new rule is: differing viewpoint = unread thread

 

Your logic (though you apparently see it as unassailable) finds no purchase with me.

 

Did you also answer this guy? After all, he also disagrees. How dare he?!? And, adding the next guy's opinion:

 

 

 

Better be careful! The TC has already made a universal argument that over-trumps any other discourse!

 

So let me repeat: I see NOTHING wrong with counting DLC for some stats, and not for others. It might not be the best system, but it's certainly not a bad one, and in no way introduces as much confusion as you suggest.

 

I was addressing everyone. I just quoted yours, because you seemed like you might actually be capable of discussion, I was apparently wrong.

 

Also, the reason I assumed you hadn't read the thread, is because you didn't address any of the points I had made. You simply restated what I had already said, except you didn't give any reasons as to why you thought my points were invalid.

 

1. DLC should only count IF you have at least 1 earned trophy for that DLC (if you bought it) otherwise it wouldn't be fair to have super easy trophies as Ultra Rares, because they just aren't.

 

2. DLC increases your completion rate and decreases average rarity. IMO you can't have both, you either are beneficted in one or another.

 

3. DLC's are like games so the rarity should (and it is) be calculated by dividing the number of achiever ONLY by the number of DLC owners.

   

It's like a game, rarity=achievers/owners, no sense to increase the number of DLC owners (to a fake number really) just for completionists have two good stats.     

 

1. By that logic, any game with an easy UR shouldn't count. Battle Fantasia, Jet Set Radio, and a bunch of Move games have easy UR trophies. I guess we should change the rarities for those too. I mean, the people that spent the money on those games and the Move, then got the trophies obviously didn't do anything to earn them.

 

2. That doesn't make any sense. Why can't people have both? Why should people be limited one way or the other? Just because you don't want them to? Because you're jealous that they have the money to buy DLC and you don't? Just because you think it's funny? Why?

 

3. If DLC is treated like any other game, then they should be treated like every other game. People who don't buy the DLC shouldn't have the trophies added to their unearned trophies. That doesn't happen with any other game, so if DLC is just like any other game, why does it make sense for it to be treated differently in some aspects?

 

I've already addressed this last point many times, and I'm too lazy to do it again.

[Apex Predator]

This discussion again? This was Subject of the month back when it was switched from the way the OP described to what it is now... most people want to see it go back to the old way, but Sly hates us all and enjoys watching us suffer.. of course he won't change it

[Jakeisquite16]

The problem I personally have with DLC being so low is that it would only be rare because people didn't buy the dlc. So in effect you're giving those who buy the dlc an advantage in rarity simply because they bought the dlc and I don't think that's fair to give someone an such a big advantage just because they buy the dlc or give someone a disadvantage rarity wise because they can't afford all of the dlc in a game.

[Tekyumeeee]

I'm okay with DLC trophies not counting against you if you don't own the DLC. But even though they do, I don't want DLC trophies to go back to the old system of factoring in all game owners for their rarity percentages. It just throws off your spread of rarity trophies. It makes getting "rare" trophies too easy. I didn't like that some of my most rare trophies were just DLC trophies and they were only rare because most people can't even earn them because they don't have the DLC.

 

Basically, I'm fine with how it is right now. I'm not too hell-bent about my completion percentage, but having DLC trophies not count against that stat would be okay with me. But either way, I'm for keeping the rarity percent of DLC trophies the way it is by only counting the people who actually own the DLC. It just makes much more sense to me.