Could we at least vote on it?

[Sly Ripper]

hmmmmmm... I like the idea, but it might be hard to define the limits of what is considered a false time.

 

This is the problem, if the current fastest time is 5 hours, someone can use this method to get a time of 4:55:00 and it looks legit.

[Nitro]

 

Alright, so let's just get rid of all the set up times for games that have been set up without deleting saves while we are at it, hey?

 

No, this is a terrible idea.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Nitro

[Dav9834]

2 years is a long time? ...I haven't touched Java since Java 1.2 in 1999.

 

It would still be cool. You should make the time, you'd get lots of likes from us. Isn't that worth it?

Lol ok you win the longest without touching java lol

Hmmm I didn't come up with the idea for the likes, I might still do something with flash, but it would take a while to make an unusable proof of concept app. Just not enough time in the world

[StrickenBiged]

I have a perverse respect for the guys who spend the time figuring out how many alt-saves, etc, they're going to need in order to achieve a ridiculously short time-to-plat. 

 

If that's what they enjoy doing, then more power to them. I'd say let them have that - they've put the time in so deserve to be on the leaderboard IMO, even if their time would be hard to replicate for anyone else.

 

Still, I can see the argument that a plat which is the result of an obvious glitch, such as the First Light times, or any other game that doesn't have auto-popping cross saves but has plat times of just a few seconds, could be removed. However, this would require attention from the admins, and may be a bigger task whitelisting or blacklisting games than we anticipate. 

[AlphaTrash]

Alright, so let's just get rid of all the set up times for games that have been set up without deleting saves while we are at it, hey?

 

No, this is a terrible idea.

 

Well shit you missed the point, if they didn't delete the trophies than it's completely legit. 

If you work within the confines of the game than it's fine. 

Deleting trophies to delete time spent playing is not within the confines of the game so it's not legit. 

 

For example you can get all level 8 karma trophies in fallout 3 in 5 minutes. 

By saving it before you level up, that's within the confine of the game. No one's deleting trophies to get it in 5 minutes. 

 

If your first trophy in injustice is level 100 and 5 minutes later you get ultimate battler, that's impossible within the confine of the game. 

There's a monumental difference. 

I have a perverse respect for the guys who spend the time figuring out how many alt-saves, etc, they're going to need in order to achieve a ridiculously short time-to-plat. 

 

If that's what they enjoy doing, then more power to them. I'd say let them have that - they've put the time in so deserve to be on the leaderboard IMO, even if their time would be hard to replicate for anyone else.

 

Still, I can see the argument that a plat which is the result of an obvious glitch, such as the First Light times, or any other game that doesn't have auto-popping cross saves but has plat times of just a few seconds, could be removed. However, this would require attention from the admins, and may be a bigger task whitelisting or blacklisting games than we anticipate. 

 

Have you ever tried this before? 

It's extremely easy and much easier than doing it legit. 

I'd rather plan and fake my time than do it legit. 

It's way harder doing it legit. 

[Gage]

Setting up times is fine, because you're still legitimately playing the game and doing things in the order it wants you to do them. Deleting your profile to get trophy pops to get a shorter time shouldn't be allowed for the leaderboard though, because like I said if you did that on a PS3 game you'd be flagged for it because it looks like hacking. Times people got from setting up times should still be all fine and good, but games with stuff earned in either an impossibly short amount of time or out of order due to profile manipulation should be hidden because it's not fair to people playing legitimately.

[FawltyPowers]

One definitive answer is ensuring relevant trophies are achieved in the correct sequence.

 

After that you could apply a minimum time gap between relevant trophies. As Sly mentioned you could have a minimum time gap of 5 hours but someone achieve it in 4 h 55 mins. For this example you could adjust it to 4 hours or 4.5 hours - basically a minimum time that is absolutely impossible, just make sure people don't know what it's set to and adjust accordingly based on experience over time.

 

Although you can still get people abuse the system it would just be a way of making it so that they have to jump through more hoops and with not knowing what a minimum time is would be less inclined to risk it as their whole purpose of doing it in the first place is to appear at the top of the leaderboard.

 

It does sound like it could be a lot of maintenance though even though personally I'd love to see it.

 

 

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

I'd be all for this

 

But I'm a dirty cheater because I copied a save from one of my PS3's to another, so I can't see myself on these leaderboards anymores.

 

I kid, I kid, but I think something like this would be cool in theory, but lead to too many people complaining about being kicked off the thingy.

[MMDE]

One definitive answer is ensuring relevant trophies are achieved in the correct sequence.

 

After that you could apply a minimum time gap between relevant trophies. As Sly mentioned you could have a minimum time gap of 5 hours but someone achieve it in 4 h 55 mins. For this example you could adjust it to 4 hours or 4.5 hours - basically a minimum time that is absolutely impossible, just make sure people don't know what it's set to and adjust accordingly based on experience over time.

 

Although you can still get people abuse the system it would just be a way of making it so that they have to jump through more hoops and with not knowing what a minimum time is would be less inclined to risk it as their whole purpose of doing it in the first place is to appear at the top of the leaderboard.

 

It does sound like it could be a lot of maintenance though even though personally I'd love to see it.

 

What if I just then made sure to get like 1-5 minutes faster than best time? =o

 

A good cheater will always do this anyway!

Edited March 30, 2016 by MMDE

[FawltyPowers]

What if I just then made sure to get like 1-5 minutes faster than best time? =o

 

A good cheater will always do this anyway!

 

Completely agree and it's a swine. All you can have is an absolute minimum time that is impossible to better but that is so difficult to distinguish with any accuracy. You could have an expert on a game that achieves a trophy in 1 h 20 and then someone who just cheats the system with 1 h 19. There's no way of knowing which is which until times move into the realm of fantasy. As that's the only point you can really set the minimum without conflict it's most likely as you pointed out that a good cheater will always be at the top of the leaderboard which makes it all redundant (except for the exclusion of auto-popping).

 

The only thing that can be definitive is the order some trophies are achieved.

 

Cheaters have always been the bane of gaming.

[Doom]

Completely agree and it's a swine. All you can have is an absolute minimum time that is impossible to better but that is so difficult to distinguish with any accuracy. You could have an expert on a game that achieves a trophy in 1 h 20 and then someone who just cheats the system with 1 h 19. There's no way of knowing which is which until times move into the realm of fantasy. As that's the only point you can really set the minimum without conflict it's most likely as you pointed out that a good cheater will always be at the top of the leaderboard which makes it all redundant (except for the exclusion of auto-popping).

 

The only thing that can be definitive is the order some trophies are achieved.

 

Cheaters have always been the bane of gaming.

You are all already reasoning one step beyond a way more fundamental question.

Who in the hell is going to arbitrarily decide, for each and every game out there, the "minimum legit time" in which you can obtain the platinum/100%?

This point is already in the realm of sci-fi for me.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Doctor Doom

[thegirlruka]

I'm gonna bump this. There have been developments for both ps4 and vita that should allow flagging of their games. I'll link the threads below.

And remember:

If nothing else, the Infamous First Light times linked in the OP are completely illegitimate and times like that should be reportable.

Edited February 4, 2017 by kuuhaku

[DARKB1KE]

I thought you're unable to delete a trophy list if you went over 0% ?????

[madbuk]

3 hours ago, DARKB1KE said:

I thought you're unable to delete a trophy list if you went over 0% ?????

You can delete it if you haven't already synced it to the server.

[DARKB1KE]

5 minutes ago, madbuk said:

You can delete it if you haven't already synced it to the server.

Sounds like such a pain.  You'd have to play offline all the time to stop from auto-syncing. 

[skateak]

48 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

Sounds like such a pain.  You'd have to play offline all the time to stop from auto-syncing. 

Exactly 

[diskdocx]

18 hours ago, kuuhaku said:

I'm gonna bump this. There have been developments for both ps4 and vita that should allow flagging of their games. I'll link the threads below.

And remember:

If nothing else, the Infamous First Light times linked in the OP are completely illegitimate and times like that should be reportable.

 

While I'm not sure this entirely relates to the OP topic (which was one about deleting profiles to change trophy order to get impossibly low completion times), we definitely need a system to report PSVita hacking.

 

It's not a theoretical, it is reality. Maybe not widespread, but it is happening.

 

I know we don't name and shame here, so I will direct people to the Azkend 2 Vital leaderboard. AFAIK, this game isn't 100%able. Certainly not in 11 seconds.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/4526-azkend-2

 

Interestingly, the 2 users who did complete it, did so in exactly the same amount of time, and on exactly the same day at exactly the same time.

 

In fact, they have multiple games on their lists with the same completion times and dates and trophy stamps.

 

Not to mention a quick glance shows multiple impossible times - all the LEGO games for instance, that are completed in 5-6 hours, which is not possible, with chapter completions out of order.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/3099-lego-batman-3-beyond-gotham

 

There are 4 people on that list with the same completion times, trophy stamps etc.

 

These people have hacked those games. There is no other possible explanation. They should be removed (and banned), and we need a mechanism in place to report them.

[marvelboy10]

1 hour ago, diskdocx said:

 

While I'm not sure this entirely relates to the OP topic (which was one about deleting profiles to change trophy order to get impossibly low completion times), we definitely need a system to report PSVita hacking.

 

It's not a theoretical, it is reality. Maybe not widespread, but it is happening.

 

I know we don't name and shame here, so I will direct people to the Azkend 2 Vital leaderboard. AFAIK, this game isn't 100%able. Certainly not in 11 seconds.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/4526-azkend-2

 

Interestingly, the 2 users who did complete it, did so in exactly the same amount of time, and on exactly the same day at exactly the same time.

 

In fact, they have multiple games on their lists with the same completion times and dates and trophy stamps.

 

Not to mention a quick glance shows multiple impossible times - all the LEGO games for instance, that are completed in 5-6 hours, which is not possible, with chapter completions out of order.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/3099-lego-batman-3-beyond-gotham

 

There are 4 people on that list with the same completion times, trophy stamps etc.

 

These people have hacked those games. There is no other possible explanation. They should be removed (and banned), and we need a mechanism in place to report them.

 They all have the exact same time and this should not be allowed. I looked at their profile and they earned some trophies 5 seconds apart from each other when its impossible to do so.

Here are some other games where they have the same exact completion time.

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/5033-lego-star-wars-the-force-awakens

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/3809-amnesia-memories

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/3997-actual-sunlight

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/4268-lego-marvels-avengers

They all have the same exact time and earned each trophy in the same order.

 

Another thing I would like to point out is the Tales of Monkey Island and Sam and Max The devil's playhouse fastest achievers. If you look at the fastest achievers for Tales of Monkey island ep 4 for ex. https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/516-tales-of-monkey-island-chapter-4-the-trial-and-execution-of-guybrush-threepwood

You will notice the top 4 have less then a 30 minute completion rate for the episode. I looked at how they earned each trophy and I noticed they popped some of them 1 minute apart from each other when it should be much longer then that. Same goes for the other episodes and Sam and Max the devil's Playhouse episodes. I'm not saying they cheated but did they earn the trophies the right way?

 

Also liked to point out one more thing. the fastest achiever for Spongebob Squarepants Plankton's Robotic Revenge is 54 minutes and 3 seconds. 

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/2178-spongebob-squarepants-planktons-robotic-revenge I believe he cheated because he earned the upgrade trophies  seconds apart from each other which is impossible to do normally. Each trophy should take about an hour and a half to earn legit. Maybe a little faster but  seconds apart now that's just cheating. Again maybe they didn't but I still want to know did they earn the trophies the right way?

 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by marvelboy10

[thegirlruka]

3 hours ago, diskdocx said:

While I'm not sure this entirely relates to the OP topic (which was one about deleting profiles to change trophy order to get impossibly low completion times), we definitely need a system to report PSVita hacking.

This was the only non-locked thread about flagging games so I posted here rather than making a new thread.

[TheYuriG]

On 28/03/2016 at 4:13 PM, ArmoredSquirreXD said:

 

Slowest achievers would be intense. People would literally wait years on end to get plat just to be top spot. 

It happens on mypst.com.br, people CRAVE to be the slowest, there is even a name for that: turtle ? 

On 28/03/2016 at 4:42 PM, Gage said:

I do think they should at the very least be hidden from the 100% club fastest achievers. Considering if you did the profile deletion trick on a ps3 game you would be actually flagged for it. And while the list swap thing was something that happened to people without them making it happen the times resulting from it are illegitimate as well and shouldn't be held above people who legitimately earn the trophies quickly.

I do also know there is a way in place already to hide people from the 100% club of a game without flagging them, as I know of at least one person who's had it done with FF14.

Then the 100% club for mousecraft would need to be killed

On 28/03/2016 at 5:00 PM, Cleggworth said:

That's the fun in games for some people. They didn't cheat to get fastest time so they should stay. They probably put in a lot of planning and work into getting those times.

Not really. I could 100% destiny in a new account and never sync then restart the account and get the 100% in less than a minute. I would have all ROI trophies what would prove me not being a hacker. 

[Gage]

11 hours ago, TheYuriG said:

It happens on mypst.com.br, people CRAVE to be the slowest, there is even a name for that: turtle ? 

Then the 100% club for mousecraft would need to be killed

Not really. I could 100% destiny in a new account and never sync then restart the account and get the 100% in less than a minute. I would have all ROI trophies what would prove me not being a hacker. 

Why are you quoting posts from 10 months ago.

 

I agree if we're going along with hiding the glitched people then nuke the Mousecraft 100% club.  And I you did that with Destiny it wouldn't be a legitimate time should be hidden.

[TheYuriG]

9 minutes ago, Gage said:

Why are you quoting posts from 10 months ago.

 

I agree if we're going along with hiding the glitched people then nuke the Mousecraft 100% club.  And I you did that with Destiny it wouldn't be a legitimate time should be hidden.

So you agree injustice should be removed? I thought you didn't 

 

And blame @kuuhaku for the necro, he was the one to link this thread somewhere else

[Gage]

25 minutes ago, TheYuriG said:

So you agree injustice should be removed? I thought you didn't 

 

And blame @kuuhaku for the necro, he was the one to link this thread somewhere else

I don't know where you're seeing that I wouldn't.  I do think that one injustice time should be removed  because it's very obvious he screwed his time in some manner,  though it's not as obvious as some other save deletion stuff or the 10 second list switch times.  

[Barriebar17]

Great to see this discussed at least, cause it has been something that bothers me for quite a while now. From a trophy hunters perspective, these times provide false info on how fast it could be done. And while personally I don't aim to be the fastest completion wise, I can imagine people who got the fastest time in a game like Injustice feel screwed over BIG time!

 

Also I think this is only a discussion, because of the fact the ps4 has not been labeled as 'hacked' yet. What if it does get hacked officially? Are we just gonna say all trophies obtained before the hack, with absurd completion times are legit, and all others are not? Cause if that's the case that's the end of the discussion and you could start right now and just say all trophies after for example March 1st 2017 with unrealistic times should be hidden from the leaderboard...

 

I agree though, whichever way you go, it will be a flawed system. But at least it takes away the incentive for those messing around with their own savedata, to stop doing that. Or makes it so that they aim for a completion time just a little under #1 which to me is already a step forwards. Since we won't be fooled thinking this could be done that fast, while its just not possible playing and syncing the normal way.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Barriebar17

[TheYuriG]

9 minutes ago, Gage said:

I don't know where you're seeing that I wouldn't.  I do think that one injustice time should be removed  because it's very obvious he screwed his time in some manner,  though it's not as obvious as some other save deletion stuff or the 10 second list switch times.  

Nevermind, i replied to you talking about clegg. Second time today *sigh* for you it was only the Mousecraft mention and that was it