Undead Wolf

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?   283 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it be changed?

    • It's outdated and should be changed (be sure to post if you have a better idea than mine)
      129
    • It's perfect the way it is now
      153

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228 posts in this topic

Sharing sentiments with others in this thread I'm tired of seeing more than 3+ trophy stacks per game (I chose three because of the three game systems: PS3/PS4/PS Vita).  I always check the New Trophy List section on the front page of this site to see new games that may be coming out that I would buy in the future... and instead I am sometimes viewing over 6 stacks of the same game!
 

I have thought for years that there needed to be either an overhaul or an updated system in place for trophies.  While I do think that updates need to be implemented to the trophy system (example would be re-implementing stricter guidelines for which games receive a platinum) I think what it comes down to is quality control, which unfortunately, seems to have gone out the window.  Unfortunately, almost every indie game that comes to the PS Store reminds me of Steam Greenlight.

I also don't understand how some of these EzPz games don't even need to be beaten in order to obtain their platinum.  These games should be 100%-types.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, diskdocx said:

Trophy system is fine. Only change I would make is to give every game a plat. 

 

Really this post is just a variation on the weekly EZPZ games suck argument. The trophy system is not devalued by short plats. This site probably skews it, but the top of the leaderboard would not change at all if you removed all the short games, as virtually everyone has them. The only people that would be positively or negatively effected are those that have only short plats - and you aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.


Furthermore, most games are significantly more rare on PSN than here on this site. My score would be much higher if you went off PSN rarity than PSNP rarity.

 

There are many ways already to track the trophy values, but will make little change overall to rankings for most individuals.

Yeah, every game may as well work within the same standard of having a plat at this point. It would be way less annoying that way. There's no longer a distinction. 100% used to be short PSN games with not a lot of content, now some 100% games have 100x more content than some games with plats. There have always been easy platinums. So you have to just judge platinums based on more information, rather than just it being a platinum. I wouldn't even say rarity necessarily as there are some pretty common ones that can be pretty difficult. You just need to look into the game itself. And I don't really see an issue with that personally.

The only 'overhaul', if you can call it that, for trophies is for Sony to rip off the achievement progress feature from Xbox One. That shit is amazing. Leaving it up to developers to put in a game themselves is not working at all. I don't want to have to hopelessly walk around to hit some annoying "walk a billion miles" trophy or whatever. Let me track the damn progress. D:<

 

18 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

Well, or one, they should allow you to delete games from your trophy list regardless of completion percentage, at the very least in cases of server shutdowns or glitched trophies. Failing that, hiding them from yourself the same way you can hide Z-grade PS+ game you're never going to play from your library is a livable middle ground.

 

PSNP should follow suit and remove vitrified trophies that are unobtainable from any subsite that displays unearned trophies... advisor, etc. At the very least it should be an option. Options affect nobody apart from Duke Amiel du H'ardcore and his gatekeeping "prestige gamer" ilk, who should just get off the bus already anyway.

That would be awesome for PSNP to remove things like the never released DLC from Burn Zombie Burn. Why track something that never actually existed?

 

Also that poll is terrible.

Edited by Elvick_
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Posted (edited)

Giving an ability to delete trophy lists, at will, while there's any remote possibility cheating exists, would be a complete blunder and make leaderboards even more completely useless than they are now.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, MMX20 said:

@Spaz But the thread you made pissed off a lot of people who love to get trophies and they were pretty upset with that. So maybe if you think before you act while making that thread, you should have been safe from the people who were pissed off with you on the thread you made.

 

Don't blame Spaz because other people decided to sink the conversation. I disagree with Spaz fundamentally on a lot of his trophy views. It doesn't mean he has no right to express them, and it doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading them. 

 

Anyway, I'm reading a lot about deleting trophy lists. Absolutely not, in my opinion. You didn't get the plat because of a closure? Keep the trophy list, but be reminded how much you dislike the developer. And yes - I am taking yet another shot at Squeenix.

 

If I could, I would take a shot at them in every single thread here.

 

36 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

That would be awesome for PSNP to remove things like the never released DLC from Burn Zombie Burn. Why track something that never actually existed?

 

That one example really annoys me to no end. It's annoying when a server closes, sure. It's annoying when a license expires. But to have trophies that exist for DLC that never did? Well, that just sticks in your craw.

Edited by starcrunch061
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Only thing I would change is the ability to delete whichever lists you felt like at whatever point in time, or at least the ability to hide them from yourself. I like my lists clean and organized and not full of games that I'll never go back to or weren't even played my be.

 

Otherwise, the trophy system works just fine.

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I like the trophy system as it is, but I would change some things like:

1. You get reworded from PSN for collecting trophies, like 1 bronze trophy=1c

                                                                                           1 silver trophy=10c

                                                                                           1 gold trophy=1$

                                                                                           1 platinum trophy=10$

 

2. No multiplayer trophies for games that are focused on single player, like Uncharted 2, 3 & 4, The Last Of Us, Batman: Arkham Origins, Driver San Francisco, Max Payne 3 (remember: Max Payne 1 & 2 DIDN'T have multiplayer). For all those games, multiplayer SUCKS!

 

3. When you buy a game (digital or disc) you can plat it 100% WITHOUT extra DLC (e.g. no trophies for extra DLC missions or stages). Remember Batman: Arkham Knight?

 

All in all that's my 2 cents.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, kenseizenkai said:

I like the trophy system as it is, but I would change some things like:

1. You get reworded from PSN for collecting trophies, like 1 bronze trophy=1c

                                                                                           1 silver trophy=10c

                                                                                           1 gold trophy=1$

                                                                                           1 platinum trophy=10$

 

 

Holy shit. No better way of introducing people to 30 min plats, ay?

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I would love if online trophies were not included for a platinum. You wouldn't have to remove them completely, I can think of three ways you could do it:

 

They could still count for 100% but without contributing to the plat (working essentially like DLC trophies do now, but without having to pay for them obviously). 

Sure, I would probably still end up doing them to get that 100% but at least if the servers went down or if something made it that they became unachievable, you could still play a game without thinking it's a waste because you won't be able to complete it.

 

Another idea (although I know this will never happen) would be to have a platinum for the offline game (the one we already have). And then a different kind of trophy for completing the online portion of the game. It could look like a platinum but be red for instance and have a different name. 

 

A third option (and my favourite of the three) is that you could just have two trophy lists for each game. One for the offline portion and one for the online portion. That way you could just do the offline portion of it and have 100% if that's what you wanted. Or vice versa if you just like to play online. Or go for both. The bottom line is you would have a choice. You wouldn't be stuck having to do both the offline and online if you didn't want to. And you wound't be stuck if something happened to the online servers. Like it has happened for so many games already.

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I really don't like the idea of including dlc trophies in the trophy list to lower the % but it's probably gonna remain that way forever since a lot of money is made out of it from 95-100% completionists.

 

A trophy tracker would be very useful especially for trophies that require performing a certain action many times eg.1000 kills.

 

I'd also love to see some sort of psn level up notification instead of getting a surprise when visiting the home screen. 

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43 minutes ago, Varhur said:

Holy shit. No better way of introducing people to 30 min plats, ay?

Well I was also thinking that indie games & free PSN+ games shouldn't have any trophies. That also crossed my mind. By the way, you don't have to be rude, I didn't come here to start a fight. It was just an idea.

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22 minutes ago, kenseizenkai said:

Well I was also thinking that indie games & free PSN+ games shouldn't have any trophies. That also crossed my mind. By the way, you don't have to be rude, I didn't come here to start a fight. It was just an idea.

You took that as rude? Weird.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Undead Wolf said:

Without a solid reason? I disagree. I think it's perfectly valid to want a system that values platinum trophies differently depending on the game. I mean how is it right that a platinum in My Name is Mayo gives you the same amount of EXP as a platinum in Super Meat Boy? And for the last part of your post, the changes I mentioned doesn't benefit people who play more games than someone else. Actually, it's quite the opposite. It encourages people to spend more time with fewer games instead of buying a ton of cheap shovelware.

 

This is what I mean when I said that you want to bias the trophy system. As it is now, the trophy system has one purpose - the trophies are not designed to show something - difficulty, game time etc - in relation to other games. All a platinum trophy shows is that you did everything the developer thought was noteworthy in a specific game. Trophies show off progress in a specific game. Difficulty, rarity and leaderboards are interests that lie outside of the trophy system, on supplementary pages like PSNP or PSNTL. And I am sorry, I have not heard a solid reason why the game-progress-system should be replaced by a biased system that relies on subjective opinions like 'too easy', 'UR or death' or 'nobody should develop or play a game like that'.

 

So yes, I think exactly that every platinum should be worth the same, as it indicates the same thing: The game is finished. That is a measurable fact rather than indistinct opinions, with (by the way) many of which I strongly disagree. The sugeestion to bias the system will be a potpourri of people who think they are entitled to tell other people what games are 'worth' something.

 

As a sidenote, taken just from this thread: People attack shovelware as 'money for trophies', and then there was a suggestion for a leaderboard-type that only counts 100% games. That's basically the same thing: spend money for trophies by buying DLC. The term 'elitism' that others used are not that unjustified as people who feel attacked by it say.

Edited by Rally-Vincent---
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They need to change the base on what they consider bronze and gold 

 

I have a few trophies that with the total effort it need it, it was bronze what clearly need to be gold 

 

same goes for the gold some gold trophies pop with zero effort and they don’t need to be gold 

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Yes it needs an overhaul so we can get those cheaters out of the system. Trophies are becoming more and more like steam achievements, and you know how much those suck?

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I'd just like that tracker that tracker that Xbox has that shows how close you are to achieving the goal for the achievement.

Also no reason for different region games to have different trophy lists if they're basically the same game.

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The never ending list of easy complete shit platinums is actually ruining the sport of trophy hunting.  This isn't why you started doing this to see if you could stack storm boy and mayo across all the platforms.  Trophies shouldn't be included with games sold for under a certain price at launch.  That would do away with these shit companies making easy games to exploit dollars from trophy whores.   Nobody cares if you're in the top 100  because in order to do that you had to platinum 600 hundred plus shit games some of them 4 times.  You won't find the best trophy lists in the top 100, just saying.  Probably not even going to find them in the top 1000.  I see these lists with over 200 platinums on them and if they have ten good platinums they're lucky.  I know a few people that mix in good with bad but honestly you don't notice the good amongst all the shit. I so wish only AAA games had trophies.  It would make it more fun for those of us that don't want to waste time or money playing shit.  It's a money exploit is all it is.  

54 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said:

I've seen a lot of people say they like the current system but wish Sony cared more about quality control and had better standards when it comes to which games are allowed platinum trophies. I agree that this would be the best solution, but I don't see them going back to the way things used to be. Besides, are things too far gone at this point? I mean just think about how many easy, sub 1 hour plats there are now. Even if Sony did start to care about preserving the value of trophies once again, that doesn't change the fact that tens, maybe even over a hundred of these games are available on the store now if you take into consideration all the different stacks. The suggestion I made in the OP is a way for the trophy system to gain value once again without requiring Sony to take action against these developers who are out to make a quick buck from trophy whores.

 

As for my suggestion about having the EXP value given from a trophy depend on the rarity, I've thought about how that could be expanded upon. First of all, it would require a "fix" to the current PSN rarity. As people have rightly pointed out, most platinums on PSN are considered rare even when they're actually quite easy due to all the non-trophy hunters and people who play a game for an hour or so before stopping. It's just a thought, but maybe people who only have something like 20% or less of the trophies in a game wouldn't count in the overall equation. Maybe then the PSN rarity would be a little more accurate as it would only take into account people who were serious about playing the game.

 

Secondly, I propose some kind of tiered system that a game can fall into depending on the rarity of its platinum. What I mean by this is that all games with an ultra rare platinum would have a set amount of EXP assigned to each trophy, very rare would have different EXP values, and so on. For example...

 

Games with an 'ultra rare' platinum:

:platinum: = 360 points

:gold: = 180 points

:silver: = 60 points

:bronze: = 30 points

 

Games with a 'common' platinum:

:platinum: = 60 points

:gold: = 30 points

:silver: = 10 points

:bronze: = 5 points

 

So essentially every game comes with a platinum as standard but the trophies in that game are valued depending on how rare the platinum is. I hope that makes sense to everyone.

This concept is a good idea but the point value from common to ultra rare needs to be even wider than it is considering some common games can be completed in seconds.  Common games should be worth a very very small amount or even more perfect is to not award points at all for common games.  

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49 minutes ago, Blood-Stalker1 said:

They need to change the base on what they consider bronze and gold 

 

I have a few trophies that with the total effort it need it, it was bronze what clearly need to be gold 

 

same goes for the gold some gold trophies pop with zero effort and they don’t need to be gold 

This is why I only really care about platinum trophies to be honest 

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Sony just needs to allow us to delete any trophies we want from our list. They're MY trophies, i should be able to do what I want with them.

 

I have a collection of baseball cards and guess what? I can throw any of them I want into the trash. I have a collection of digital video games.... and guess what? I can delete which ever games I want.

 

But for some reason, Sony doesn't have logical common sense when it comes to trophies.

 

I already know all the arguments for and against the idea and I always come out on top knowing it makes perfect sense and is doable to allow us to delete any trophies we want.

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I would like Sony to launch one common leaderboards that would complement the psnprofiles or other similar leaderboards. Problematic are of course cheaters, but I believe Sony is capable of organising moderators alike psnprofiles for cheater elimination. This way we know what is the real rank among all PSN users as well as how many people are really playing specified title.

 

Secondly I also support strongly the idea of having tracker showing the progress in each of the trophies, alike in the XBOX achievements. In too many games I had to struggle a lot now knowing how far I am in the process of collecting certain trophy.

 

And thirdly I would appreciate some kind of special offers, gadgets or other kind of recognition for achieving specific levels in PSN. Alike free of charge code for digital game or PSPlus yearly subscripion for user that reached level 20 and new console (of course phisical one, not downloadable (-:) not for user that reached level 50. That's just an example.

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People keep worrying about cheaters on leaderboards, when they real problem is "gamers" who play easy games for trophies just to climb faster. Of course they don't want a rarity points system, they would hit the bottom of it just as fast as they climbed the current system.

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Why do you care so much about what people play, if someone cares about stacking POWGI games, then it's on him, if he's bragging with 1000 plats with 80% of them being less than 2 hours, it's his problem on being dickwad. You just want to change everything to the "true gamer" bias. Yes, i won't idolise someone like that, but i don't see why if someone is silent about it, he should be called trophy whore.

 

If anything, make rarer platinums give you more points and/or remove stacks. No idea how stacks work in terms of making them and why (except for those double-platting the game).

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Posted (edited)

I wish they'd just scrap the trophy levels, rarity, and points entirely, and make trophies and descriptions only visible after you've earned them yourself. Make them fun surprises instead of goals to boost to reach because you know about them in advance.

 

In place of individual trophy rarity, an average amount earned value for the game as a whole, without ever revealing to the players how many a game has in total (so no more platinums to boot).

 

When viewing another player’s profile, it will only show images of the earned trophies per game, no descriptions unless you have also earned them and no total number to fetch for leaderboard sites.

Edited by crauuecrauue
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