Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?

[AJ_Radio]

1 minute ago, Gommes_ said:

 

Yes it is about fun. But it becomes a problem if some players avoid certain games because they are too hard or too long. Than your hobby of achieving platinums stands over actual gaming. Which is fine I guess but something I really don't understand. I also think that the word "achievement" means that you have to achive something (duh). Participation trophies devalued trophies within our bubble and I think it is necessary to talk about it. Commercialization is a big problem in many fields (hobbies, sports, movies, games, etc.) and is now a problem with this hobby. I don't wanna argue that the amount of shovel ware in the PS-Store is that huge because of developers providing a market for "trophy whores" but it probably has a little to do with it.

 

Dead Space 2 is a good example. I remember playing it on the 360 back in early 2011 being real impressed with the graphics and how tense it was. But Hard Core difficulty is something a lot of players would avoid because it is something they feel is too difficult.

 

All the bitching and moaning about the Mein Leben trophy in Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus pretty much tells the story. I was going to buy that game regardless of how difficult it was or how long it was going to take me to get through it. I'm a huge Wolfenstein fan and have been for as long as I remember, so even if I can't get Mein Leben due to my lack of commitment and skill, it wasn't going to bother me.

 

Participation trophies are debatable. I feel they are necessary for story progression, because it would be absolutely silly not to include some trophies for playing the story. But if you were to argue that you got said trophy without doing anything, then I can see your argument.

 

Commercialization is a whole nother topic however. Though I don't quite understand what you mean by it.

[Gommes_]

4 hours ago, Spaz said:

Commercialization is a whole nother topic however. Though I don't quite understand what you mean by it.

 

Commercialization is something companies do to attract a new audience (not saying you didn't know that ?). Look at soccer for instance. The hardcore fans are mad about the commercial changes, cause it drifts away from the actual sport. Inviting the most popular singer for a halftime show is something the audience does not want, at all. This is a move to lure other people to these events, who know nothing about the sport and just there for the show. This is perfectly fine but nothing the core audience wants. On top of that, the core audience made the sport great in the first place, so that companies have more and more money to acually invite these superstars.

 

This is the same I see with the rise of super easy and quick games. Some players want platinums even though they are not "good enough". Our hobby revolved around the extra mile you had to go in order to achieve trophies. Companies saw the potential to create "games" so no one feels excluded and to make profit by creating shovel ware. But achievements were never about inclusion, that's why they called "achievements".

 

So on paper a platinum in My Name is Mayo is the same as a platinum in Wolfenstein II. Now we have a new audience within our hobby who are in this game for different reasons and who never saw the appeal of fighting through tough games and get a "reward" in form of a trophy. I said it in another thread already but whatever: Our hobby is weird and trophies never meant anything, at least outside of our bubble. Within it means a lot and it is totally normal to criticize certain developments. And someone might call me elitist but when I am totally honest, yes I am exactly that. I don't want "trophy ******" being affiliated with our hobby. And yes, even I am aware that everybody defines that differently.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Gommes_

[AJ_Radio]

3 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

Commercialization is something companies do to attract a new audience (not saying you didn't know that ). Look at soccer for instance. The hardcore fans are mad about the commercial changes, cause it drifts away from the actual sport. Inviting the most popular singer for a halftime show is something the audience does not want, at all. This is a move to lure other people to these events, who know nothing about the sport and just there for the show. This is perfectly fine but nothing the core audience wants. On top of that, the core audience made the sport great in the first place, so that companies have more and more money to acually invite these superstars.

 

This is a problem with American Football. The halftime show at the Superbowl every February is one of the most polluted events I know.

 

They brought in Beyonce and Justin Timberlake. These two are national and world class superstars who are among the most successful of their time. Musically I don't see them to be all that great. But they are some of the most popular and them along with such acts as Taylor Swift and Rihanna try to attract more of a general audience, including people who otherwise would know nothing about the sport.

 

Turns out the Superbowl is the most popular televised event here in America. So obviously the commercials and the halftime show are going to be all about the show.

 

6 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

This is the same I see with the rise of super easy and quick games. Some players want platinums even though they are not "good enough". Our hobby revolved around the extra mile you had to do in order to achieve trophies. Companies saw the potential to create "games" so no one feels excluded and to make profit by creating shovel ware. But achievements were never about inclusion, that's why they called "achievements".

 

I think the issue is that us as people and a society have become a lot more lazy and less willing to put in the work compared to what we used to have to do.

 

Games used to be generally more difficult. 20 years ago I would go to my local Blockbuster and rent a Nintendo 64 game. Not only were those games more difficult but there was a chance I rented a shitty game, in which I was stuck with it. Plus with what is now considered to be outdated internet, we didn't have as many options.

 

Today I can take an off day from work, sit on my computer chair and literally buy around 10 - 20 easy as piss games that I know have extremely easy platinums. It would probably take me just one day or two to get through them all.

 

That's one reason why I think indie games that offer a bit of variety and some challenge give me the most satisfaction. AAA games have gotten a lot easier and while I still enjoy a lot of them, they don't allure me like they did back in the Playstation 3 era and earlier. I guess it's because I've gotten older and my tastes are gravitating more towards cooking and watching classic Sopranos and Breaking Bad reruns.

 

12 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

So on paper a platinum in My Name is Mayo is the same as a platinum in Wolfenstein II. Now we have a new audience within our hobby who are in this game for different reasons and who never saw the appeal of fighting through tough games and get a "reward" in form of a trophy. I said it in another thread already but whatever: Our hobby is weird and trophies never meant anything, at least outside of our bubble. Within it means a lot and it is totally normal to criticize certain developments. And someone might call me elitist but when I am totally honest, yes I am exactly that. I don't want "trophy ******" being affiliated with our hobby. And yes, even I am aware that everybody defines that differently.

 

I took My Name is Mayo to be some sort of joke and I still do. People were pretty upset over at PST.org.

 

The very notion that one trophy in Wolfenstein II is enough to make people not buy the game at all is sad and ridiculous.

[Spinosaurus Rex]

My thoughts, mostly common with other users here:

• Making common trophies (50%+ rarity) worth 0 points would be fine enough, it would completely shut down purpose of developing piss-easy games designed only for trivial plat. On PSNP it would be a bit harsh because many more games (especially longer ones like Marvel's Spider-Man) would net you no points, but it's not important right now.
• Instead of giving bronze/silver/gold for non-specified reason, Sony could give it based on rarity (gold for ultra rare <5%, silver for very rare 5-20%, bronze for rare 20-50% or something like that).
• Give every game a plat, and maybe even give additional trophy for completing game with dlc. VVVVVV, Trials Fusion or Sine Mora deserve to have a plat.
• Remove games with two different trophy lists based on region (merge NA, EU etc. lists), because exactly same game having different rarity (I was surprised to see that Hollow Knight EU version has twice more common platinum than NA version).

Edited April 10, 2019 by Spinosaurus Rex

[jonesey46]

12 hours ago, Mohd_AAAA said:

I have a few suggestions:

1. Stop trophy stacks all together, whether be it regional stacks, device stacks, or remastered/original stacks.

Exceptions:

A. If a game is completely different across devices (eg. Lego games between PS4/PS3 and Vita).

B. If a remastered version has seen a significant change compared to its original release.

C. If a game has different/cut content across regions.

 

2. Give every game a platinum trophy, with no exceptions. It will give uniformity to the trophy system.

 

3. Add a new icon to represent a completed DLC trophies in a game. Just like platinums should represent a complete base game trophy list. Another icon should be added to a players profile with a number of it's own to represent a complete DLC trophy list in a game. The plus icon in the default DLC trophy icon is a good choice.

 

4. Force developers to add an offline requirement to trophies with online requirement (eg. Mass Effect 3/Andromeda). This will stop trophies from being unobtainable due to server closure which is the most common cause for a trophy to be unobtainable.

Exceptions:

A. Online-only games.

 

Some of these will affect my trophy hunting (trophy stacking) but it ultimately will serve to make the trophy system better.

I pretty much agree with every one of your points.

 

Some people have mentioned deleting games from your list no matter the percentage which I don't think is a good idea at all, cause as someone pointed out, everyone would have perfect profiles diminishing the accomplishment of people that actually put the work in and maintain a 100% profile. However, I think deleting games that are <5% should be an option as it won't affect your profile/level much and it would be handy for people that start a game, get one trophy and realise they don't like it. If that happened I could finally delete ESO and PAIN off my profile!

[I need more BIOSHOCK]

That is actually a really boss idea!  Making the xp earnerd from the rarer the trophy higher would prove to be very interesting.

 

In all honesty I strongly doubt it will ever happen though as there would be way too much money to be lost in implementing it.

 

I've been a hardcore trophy hunter for around 8 years now and I'll not lie I'm also a massive trophy whore and love me a nice easy slutty plat and watching a whole lotta trophies rain down after a big massive grindy/hard game.  I know that there will lots out there that think, what a dick head littering his profile with that crap!  But lucky for me I've never given a shiny shite as to what anyone else thinks of me and never will.  I'll never understand why anyone gives such a massive shit about anyone elses profile other than their own in all honesty.

 

At the end of the day gaming is something I have loved since I was 5 and has and always will be my main hobby.  There is no denying how the start of the trophy/achievment feature changed everything in gaming forever.  When I first got my PS3 all those years ago I had no idea what the hell all these little random ding boxes evern were that kept popping up and didn't care, It took me a few months to even bother getting online.  As time went on and I realised what these trophies were I got round to earning my very first plat on a game I enjoyed a whole hell of a lot, Alice Madness returns.  And that is when the addiction began for me................  And now here we are!  One big happy...... For the most part!  Family lol.

 

Can't we all just GETAAAAAAALONG!!!!

[xZoneHunter]

Just fix the rarity board here on PSNP. 

 

I dont think Sony should revise their systeem to appease a small section of trophy Hunters. We have PSNP and a bunch of other sites dedicated to show us trophy data based on various metrics. 

 

The tools are there, you just need to use them. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by xZoneHunter

[jaehyun1009]

Not necessarily pertaining to trophies, but I do think there needs to be some kind of quality control on the PSN (actually in this industry as a whole) to keep out shovelware garbage games.

 

Orc Slayer, Life of Black Tiger, and My name is Mayo to name a few. Many of these low quality games try to entice people with easy platinums as well, sometimes with trophies being the sole reason such garbage gets pushed out. (I'm looking at you, 1000 Top Rated)

Edited April 10, 2019 by jaehyun1009

[ryoonz]

Not really but I would love to have some sort of tracking (number of enemy killed) like Xbox

[DEI2EK]

People who fast forward through VNs without taking the effort to actually read them are the worst

[Gibbo_0113]

16 hours ago, diskdocx said:

- and you aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.

 

Well the way things are heading that is certainly a possibility. Thats the main concern when you see these types of threads.  

 

Restrictions on how many stacks a game can have and whether or not (very) short games have a plat and 1200 points would help improve the system and add some value back into it. It will never be like it used to but hopefully it will get better 

[ArmoredSnowman]

16 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

Well, or one, they should allow you to delete games from your trophy list regardless of completion percentage,

Would be nice. Hate hiding shut down games, or games I have no intention of ever playing (or can't plat...) like GTA V, Midnight Club LA, BO2. :/ 

16 hours ago, Hakoom said:

yes it is and it should have some updates

 

they need to 1st increase the level cap

Agreed. PSNP/PSNTL shows proof that there's quite a few level 100+ achievers out there, so it makes no sense that PSN doesn't get rid of the level cap already. People like you and others should be able to know their real level without having to update a leaderboard site each time. 

16 hours ago, Hakoom said:

yes it is and it should have some updates

 

they need to 1st increase the level cap

Agreed. PSNP/PSNTL shows proof that there's quite a few level 100+ achievers out there, so it makes no sense that PSN doesn't get rid of the level cap already. People like you and others should be able to know their real level without having to update a leaderboard site each time. 

[starcrunch061]

Some good ideas in the OP, but I like the system as it is. 

[majob]

The only thing I'd like to see is a progress tracker like XBOX does. Aside from that nothing should change

[killerlightning]

I think overall the way trophies are is fine but I would like to see them add one thing.  That thing is a diamond trophy worth 100 points for any game that is not a platinum.  I feel even if it is not a platinum game that you should get an extra bonus too for finishing all the trophies that are offered within that game.

[Alantor32]

@Spaz But the thread you made pissed off a lot of people who love to get trophies and they were pretty upset with that. So maybe if you think before you act while making that thread, you should have been safe from the people who were pissed off with you on the thread you made.

 

Anyway, Undead_Wolf has some good ideas on a trophy system overhaul despite me thinking the trophy system is fine as it is, but some ideas on improving it is also good.

[Toma_Gabriel]

I'm just dreaming of a trophy tracker in game like this:

 

 

[SkyMason]

The only real change IMO should be changing the weighting of the points system based on rarity, i.e. 2% rarity = 98 points, 98% rarity = 2 points (obviously not exactly like this, but something along those lines). Other than that, don't really care that much tbh, I just mainly look at trophies as a way to manage my backlog

[Conor]

No more online trophies unless the game is online only. So many PS3 games had crappy tacked-on multiplayer with some piddly trophies to go with it. Anything that wasn't CoD pretty much died within a few weeks save for lifers that make getting them legit impossible, or the servers have closed completely and thus the plats are unobtainable.

 

I realise that many will think that's not a good idea but whatever

[Ravers]

I love the trophy system! Before buying a game, the first thing I check is its trophy list. The only things I would change in the system is:

• We should have a way to delete trophy lists that aren't 0%;
• Developers/Sony should find a way to avoid multiple trophy lists for the same game but different platforms;

As some of you already said, there are trophies that are unattainable at the moment, and an incomplete trophy list, really bugs a lot of people (me included). So we should have a way to delete trophy lists that aren't 0%.

 

Regarding the multiple trophy lists for the same game: I think developers should do something like the Final Fantasy X HD trophy list, where the same game, has the same trophy list, for all the platforms. I mean, if I complete the game on the PS3, why should I have a different trophy list on the PS4 or PS Vita if it is exactly the same game, thus the same challenges?

[Stardroid]

I like to idea of giving 50% + trophies a zero value. It would mean a reduction in people buying cheap plat games just for the sake of it, simultaneously destroying these games for the aids they are

Edited April 10, 2019 by STARLOVE

[MooseSketts]

Sharing sentiments with others in this thread I'm tired of seeing more than 3+ trophy stacks per game (I chose three because of the three game systems: PS3/PS4/PS Vita).  I always check the New Trophy List section on the front page of this site to see new games that may be coming out that I would buy in the future... and instead I am sometimes viewing over 6 stacks of the same game!
 

I have thought for years that there needed to be either an overhaul or an updated system in place for trophies.  While I do think that updates need to be implemented to the trophy system (example would be re-implementing stricter guidelines for which games receive a platinum) I think what it comes down to is quality control, which unfortunately, seems to have gone out the window.  Unfortunately, almost every indie game that comes to the PS Store reminds me of Steam Greenlight.

I also don't understand how some of these EzPz games don't even need to be beaten in order to obtain their platinum.  These games should be 100%-types.

[Elvick_]

18 hours ago, diskdocx said:

Trophy system is fine. Only change I would make is to give every game a plat. 

 

Really this post is just a variation on the weekly EZPZ games suck argument. The trophy system is not devalued by short plats. This site probably skews it, but the top of the leaderboard would not change at all if you removed all the short games, as virtually everyone has them. The only people that would be positively or negatively effected are those that have only short plats - and you aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.

Furthermore, most games are significantly more rare on PSN than here on this site. My score would be much higher if you went off PSN rarity than PSNP rarity.

 

There are many ways already to track the trophy values, but will make little change overall to rankings for most individuals.

Yeah, every game may as well work within the same standard of having a plat at this point. It would be way less annoying that way. There's no longer a distinction. 100% used to be short PSN games with not a lot of content, now some 100% games have 100x more content than some games with plats. There have always been easy platinums. So you have to just judge platinums based on more information, rather than just it being a platinum. I wouldn't even say rarity necessarily as there are some pretty common ones that can be pretty difficult. You just need to look into the game itself. And I don't really see an issue with that personally.

The only 'overhaul', if you can call it that, for trophies is for Sony to rip off the achievement progress feature from Xbox One. That shit is amazing. Leaving it up to developers to put in a game themselves is not working at all. I don't want to have to hopelessly walk around to hit some annoying "walk a billion miles" trophy or whatever. Let me track the damn progress. D:<

 

18 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

Well, or one, they should allow you to delete games from your trophy list regardless of completion percentage, at the very least in cases of server shutdowns or glitched trophies. Failing that, hiding them from yourself the same way you can hide Z-grade PS+ game you're never going to play from your library is a livable middle ground.

 

PSNP should follow suit and remove vitrified trophies that are unobtainable from any subsite that displays unearned trophies... advisor, etc. At the very least it should be an option. Options affect nobody apart from Duke Amiel du H'ardcore and his gatekeeping "prestige gamer" ilk, who should just get off the bus already anyway.

That would be awesome for PSNP to remove things like the never released DLC from Burn Zombie Burn. Why track something that never actually existed?

 

Also that poll is terrible.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Elvick_

[B1rvine]

Giving an ability to delete trophy lists, at will, while there's any remote possibility cheating exists, would be a complete blunder and make leaderboards even more completely useless than they are now.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by B1rvine

[starcrunch061]

2 hours ago, MMX20 said:

@Spaz But the thread you made pissed off a lot of people who love to get trophies and they were pretty upset with that. So maybe if you think before you act while making that thread, you should have been safe from the people who were pissed off with you on the thread you made.

 

Don't blame Spaz because other people decided to sink the conversation. I disagree with Spaz fundamentally on a lot of his trophy views. It doesn't mean he has no right to express them, and it doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading them. 

 

Anyway, I'm reading a lot about deleting trophy lists. Absolutely not, in my opinion. You didn't get the plat because of a closure? Keep the trophy list, but be reminded how much you dislike the developer. And yes - I am taking yet another shot at Squeenix.

 

If I could, I would take a shot at them in every single thread here.

 

36 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

That would be awesome for PSNP to remove things like the never released DLC from Burn Zombie Burn. Why track something that never actually existed?

 

That one example really annoys me to no end. It's annoying when a server closes, sure. It's annoying when a license expires. But to have trophies that exist for DLC that never did? Well, that just sticks in your craw.

Edited April 10, 2019 by starcrunch061