Djeheuty Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 RedMustang72 your argument really makes no sense to me, Tlou was a major success and it's perfectly normal many players achieved the trophies, but the real owners number will be much greater than that. You can't say it's common with reason just because the trophy has many achievers, on what basis? If you look at the other DLCs the owners are about 71000 and 20000, do you think 5900 is realistic for grounded mode? Jibril got the point with the elefant sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AARCT1C Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I agree, the rarity of DLC trophies should correspond with all owners of the game, not just those who own the DLC, just as they do when you check the rarity on your console. It would be nice for those people who have supported a game or company by purchasing DLC to be rewarded with some Very Rare/Ultra Rare trophies! It shouldn't affect people who don't have DLC at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto-Tomato Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) But the thing is, when you 'buy' a PS+ game, that PS+ game isn't added to your list until you actually download and play it. DLC, however, is added to your list as soon as you start the base game. This means that ALL base game owners do have the DLC on their list, and thus should be counted towards the rarity. Too...many...replies...help!!! The point I was trying to make, perhaps crudely, is fallible representation. Because I have a Plus sub therefore I own the base game regardless...it was a crude point though, I agree, but it was to compare the idea that I own the base game therefore I 'own' the dlc...when in fact I don't, like how I haven't downloaded the Plus games...I don't own them at that point. The Plus games with dlc, which we don't receive, are problematic further... I understand the argument, I really do, I just do see it as being accurate, it's not even in the same ballpark as players that have bought and actually played a dlc...regardless of the manner in which Sony deliver trophy sets. RedMustang72 your argument really makes no sense to me, Tlou was a major success and it's perfectly normal many players achieved the trophies, but the real owners number will be much greater than that. You can't say it's common with reason just because the trophy has many achievers, on what basis? If you look at the other DLCs the owners are about 71000 and 20000, do you think 5900 is realistic for grounded mode? Jibril got the point with the elefant sentence Based on the players that achieved the trophy...what else is more accurate? Base owners who don't even own the dlc and have never played it? Really? I laughed at the elephant, but if no-one else was counted then how do you know it wasn't accurate? What if mice were involved, or peanuts, they often come with the base elephant! Ah, the great mouse and peanut conundrum... Last one, getting that mob mentality vibe. I'd like to remind some though that I'm not saying the status quo isn't fallible, only that it is the most accurate we have, but if others see it differently then fair enough, but I do wonder why it was changed in the first place then...food for thought! Edited November 7, 2015 by RedMustang72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voleman79 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Edited July 28, 2018 by voleman79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuelito Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 New idea that I think would fix everything here - let me know what you think. Okay, so I guess why not throw in my idea of how it should probably be, trash or love this idea as much as you'd like but read it all so you get what I'm saying DLC rarity should be calculated on the basis of all owners of the base game like it used to be (like how it is on PSN), as that is literally accurate (it doesn't matter if you've bought the DLC or not, the way it is on PSN is that the DLC trophies are packaged with the base game, no matter if you own it or not, that's the way it is and we can't change that). With this in mind, DLC rarity categories should be classified differently from the base game trophy categories. So instead of 5% and below being Ultra Rare for a DLC trophy, 1% and below should be Ultra Rare for DLC, and so on (or whatever it should be - 0.75%, 0.50% and below is ultra rare, whatever). In the Trophy Log and trophy lists it will just say for example "1.50% Rare (DLC)" for a DLC trophy, if it were a trophy for a base game, it would as usual say "1.50% Ultra Rare" like it does now. This will instantly explain the difference. This would resolve the issue with people thinking they have "Too Many" Ultra Rare trophies with the old system as it would still be hard to get an Ultra Rare DLC trophy due to their shifted requirement. This would resolve the issue with people thinking they "don't have enough" ultra rare trophies due to a 100% DLC trophy actually being a hell of an experience and it now being an accurate percent. Now the "Average Rarity" percentage at the top of your profile is an accurate number. The 5 rarest trophies module on the right side of your profile would now show your 5 rarest base games trophies and 5 rarest DLC trophies in a "separate" section under that (if people wanted that), otherwise they would just be mixed with each other. In the end, I think the trophy log would be the only thing that people may have an issue with if they decided to specifically filter "Order (Rarity)" and "Direction (Ascending)", if they did that they would obviously get some DLC trophies ahead of base game trophies (because you're filtering by rarity percent), it might look weird, but it's still accurate as you're filtering by rarity percent. If you filter by Rarity (Rarity Category) above all that, it would show all trophies (DLC and non-DLC) in that category filtered by percent. It might look odd, but it's still all accurate along the lines with what you're filtering. I previously said months ago when Sly added the average rarity stat to profiles that he "shot himself in the foot" so to speak by doing that, I predicted threads like this and I wasn't wrong. Basically, return the DLC to rely on base game percents like it used to be but just shift the DLC percent categories (as the categories are what people care about). I really want to know what people think about this. Every other idea is "Yeah, but that messes this up" and so on, I can't think of what this would mess up, lol I don't know how you get the idea but it's amazing! This should be the way to go so no one can complain anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Ripper Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 But the thing is, when you 'buy' a PS+ game, that PS+ game isn't added to your list until you actually download and play it. DLC, however, is added to your list as soon as you start the base game. This means that ALL base game owners do have the DLC on their list, and thus should be counted towards the rarity. Only earned trophies are added to anyone's profile. Trophy lists are a whole, there's no indication if you've launched a game before or after the DLC trophies were added. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuelito Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I just know that people like me that complete DLCs (84 so far) get F***ed and I would like rarity to change. BlindMango's seems to be the best method so far. But anyway it's not the biggest deal since we can just ignore the average rarity stat like I'm sadly doing :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMango Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I just know that people like me that complete DLCs (84 so far) get F***ed and I would like rarity to change. BlindMango's seems to be the best method so far. But anyway it's not the biggest deal since we can just ignore the average rarity stat like I'm sadly doing :/ Yeah, it's the same with me, I complete DLC's for most of my games, so I have always just ignored average rarity percentage, lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FawltyPowers Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) From reading a lot more posts the main issue seems to be agreeing what Rarity percentages actually represent. For 100% accuracy Sony would have to have a flag that shows whether DLC content has been installed, if it has the relevant trophies become “Unlocked”. This is not in place so it is not an option. Next if you install a game you install all trophies. If for example you get the platinum on Uncharted 3 your game completion is 52% regardless of whether you have purchased the DLC or not so from an accuracy point of view Main Game owners should be used across the main game and DLC’s. It’s true that a lot of people will never purchase the DLC but there are also a lot of Main Game owners who never really play the game either, it could have been free on the PS Store, an unwanted Christmas present, a game hired for the weekend, etc. So now comes the issue, is the rarity % for each trophy trying to show accuracy or trying to give a general overview of how challenging that trophy is? Using the original method of Main Game owners for all (as Sony now does) can give a lot of trophies a rarity of less than 1%. That is accurate in terms of the above but next to meaningless trying to judge how challenging trophies are. The current method of using DLC Owners based on the owner having achieved at least one trophy switches the rarity from leaning towards Ultra Rare to Common. This does give a slightly better idea of how challenging a trophy is because the statistics are showing people who have definitely played the DLC. The more trophies in a DLC, the better the statistics become but you have to look at DLC completely differently from Main Game because of the Owner numbers. Also Main Game owners can represent the type of people listed above whereas DLC owners lean more towards completionists, (a generalisation of course not the rule). Maybe BlindMango’s suggestion is the best answer after everything discussed. Use Main Game owners but reclassify Rarity brackets for DLC’s. This then gives the accuracy but also maintains a realism on the rarity classifications. In short it encompasses both issues. Finally for those that bring up the Average Rarity statistic on your profile, in a word don’t. Don’t worry about trying to lower it, the games you think will, won’t, and those you think won’t, will. Just look at it literally as an average of all your trophies and not a comparison tool against other people’s profiles. Edited November 11, 2015 by FawltyPowers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadiochao Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The average rarity stat seems to have caused so many arguments and personally I don't find it to be an interesting statistic at all. I'm not sure it was worth adding it, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The average rarity stat seems to have caused so many arguments and personally I don't find it to be an interesting statistic at all. I'm not sure it was worth adding it, to be honest.To be honest, the average rarity stat is a sham - if a profile had literally every single trophy it is possible to get on it the average rarity would be 50% give or take.So basically, the better you are are trophy hunting, the more avarage you look... Edited November 9, 2015 by DrBloodmoney 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 DLC rarity would still be an issue even without the average rarity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo_0113 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 To be honest, the average rarity stat is a sham - if a profile had literally every single trophy it is possible to get on it the average rarity would be 50% give or take. So basically, the better you are are trophy hunting, the more avarage you look... Exactly. Whats so bad about having 50% anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Ookami Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The average rarity stat seems to have caused so many arguments and personally I don't find it to be an interesting statistic at all. I'm not sure it was worth adding it, to be honest. It actually was not "added" but rather... "shown" =D That statistics was on the Statistics bar from the start (yea, even Sly forgot about it ), it's just it became visible on the profile so the everlasting DLC rarity problem appeared once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONUOsFan Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I speak of basing the difficulty off of the rarity - in this case, it's inaccurate. Bringing the PSN rarity system to PSNProfiles would be terrible and this is what I'm emphasizing upon with my Wolfenstein example In general, the more rare a trophy is, the more demanding it would be to attain So, by all means, let's twist a perfectly logical and straightforward mathematical calculation of one thing to make it represent something that will never have a firm and logical representation because it's different for everyone. People have different skill sets with different types of games, some games are more popular than others which automatically makes their rarities artificially low, the list goes on... Rarity is just that, and it will never be a fair representation of difficulty no matter how much people want it to. That being the case, leave the math alone, because at this point it doesn't represent rarity OR difficulty, so why even have the number there? If you really want to track something subjective like difficulty, you need a subjective way to do it: let everyone that earns a trophy give it a difficulty rating and aggregate the results. I don't know about the MGR trophies but I have looked at TLoU grounded mode dlc and I have to be blunt, I think some people are having a laugh at that one. 5902 players and 100% common...all 5902 players have achieved this trophy therefore it's accurate, regardless of how tough it is. If you want me to compound the point, in my region, EU, the same trophy (1st one) is 99.995 common...over a massive 17, 873 players!!! 17, 871 achievers from 17, 873 players...how in any stretch is that not common? Are you serious right now? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simula67 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I'm cool with Mango's suggestion. I couldn't care less about the rarity categorization of a trophy, but that's just me. I just want a percentage that is accurate. Another part of this that I didn't see brought up yet are ultimate or GOTY editions of games, where all of the DLC is included. (There are plenty of examples of this, like Shadows of Mordor or TLOU Remastered) In these cases, every single owner of that game has access to the DLC trophies for free, which means that those trophies should be calculated using the original method, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto-Tomato Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Are you serious right now? That's a bit cheeky...considering. -.- Working with the framework (an earlier post) of known data then it's entirely accurate, regardless if we know there'll be others who aren't registered as making attempts, however if you'd like to add those people then feel free to pluck a number out of thin air, or are you privy to info the rest of us are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONUOsFan Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 That's a bit cheeky...considering. -.- Working with the framework (an earlier post) of known data then it's entirely accurate, regardless if we know there'll be others who aren't registered as making attempts, however if you'd like to add those people then feel free to pluck a number out of thin air, or are you privy to info the rest of us are not? I think you're missing my entire point. I don't want to pluck anything out of thin air, but that's exactly what we're doing now. Let rarity be rarity, and let it be accurate. Quit trying to use it to represent difficulty and for God's sake, please quit caring about how many ultra rare trophies SOMEONE ELSE has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto-Tomato Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I think you're missing my entire point. I don't want to pluck anything out of thin air, but that's exactly what we're doing now. Let rarity be rarity, and let it be accurate. Quit trying to use it to represent difficulty and for God's sake, please quit caring about how many ultra rare trophies SOMEONE ELSE has. For the love of... Have you actually read anything I've written? I'm negating the rarity = difficulty argument, and have no concern whatsoever regarding who has what trophies ffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people, honestly... Edit: In case it passed you by, which at this point wouldn't surprise me, I liked your post because I agreed with it...that'll teach me eh? Edited November 9, 2015 by RedMustang72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONUOsFan Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 For the love of... Have you actually read anything I've written? I'm negating the rarity = difficulty argument, and have no concern whatsoever regarding who has what trophies ffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people, honestly... Edit: In case it passed you by, which at this point wouldn't surprise me, I liked your post because I agreed with it...that'll teach me eh? Ok, then you can just ignore the second half of my post, which just goes for everyone else that helped start this mess in the first place by doing exactly that (worrying about comparing rarity stats and having rarity = difficulty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto-Tomato Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ok, then you can just ignore the second half of my post, which just goes for everyone else that helped start this mess in the first place by doing exactly that (worrying about comparing rarity stats and having rarity = difficulty). Are you trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONUOsFan Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Are you trolling? I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is that we're even having this discussion to begin with, all because some people got all twisted up about other people having too many ultra rare trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto-Tomato Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is that we're even having this discussion to begin with, all because some people got all twisted up about other people having too many ultra rare trophies. Yes, and if you'd cared to actually read the various (too many) posts I've made on this thread you'd realise I'm saying the same thing, that the current method is the best we have and to leave it be. But hey, feel free to misread some more thing's I write. On the off-chance that someone wants to quote anything I've said from this point on...I'd very politely ask not to do so, just disregard anything I've written. I've been clear that I don't mind any change to the system, only that I didn't see it as needing a change, that no matter how fallible it currently is, in my view it's the best option we have. Now that my head is sufficiently spinning I'd like to go somewhere and lay down and be left out of this thread. Many thanks, and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONUOsFan Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Yes, and if you'd cared to actually read the various (too many) posts I've made on this thread you'd realise I'm saying the same thing, that the current method is the best we have and to leave it be.Unfortunately, that's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. See, I did read your posts. I just don't agree with them Edited November 9, 2015 by ONUOsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisty123 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is that we're even having this discussion to begin with, all because some people got all twisted up about other people having too many ultra rare trophies. Um,,, the very first post of this topic was not about how many ultra trophies members have. It may have been the focus in past topics but was not planning on being for this one. This was raised as the current method is raising the average rarity of a whole profile way more than what it should be. While I like having rare trophies to some degree I could care less if I have 100 ultra rare or 1000 I play a game because I enjoy it not becasue it could be classed as a hard or rare trophy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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