Trophy Rarity Question

[Satoshi Ookami]

Go look at your at your JRPGs, people who play them know what they're getting into and actually plat them. They may be long and tiresome, but their average rarity is terrible in comparison to time and effort invested to obtain them. The stat in no way represent what you want.

 

This is a very valid point. Just adding that they aren't usually on Plus, so people who own them actually buy them so that gives them more reasons to actually finish it.

We can actually use this to describe many other obscure games.

But I also understand fisty's stature. I also care about the average rarity. Not because of anything, but simply because it's a stat.

It's natural we want our stats to look nice

Edited November 30, 2015 by Satoshi Ookami

[MMDE]

But I also understand fisty's stature. I also care about the average rarity. Not because of anything, but simply because it's a stat.

It's natural we want our stats to look nice

 

It's just too bad that to try improve it you'd have to mostly play games that people don't finish or get a lot of trophies for, which usually is pretty bad games.

[FawltyPowers]

But I also understand fisty's stature. I also care about the average rarity. Not because of anything, but simply because it's a stat.

It's natural we want our stats to look nice

 

A lot of people find the stat confusing and think that a lower percentage score is a better reflection of the games they play. It simply in the majority of situations is not the case.

 

Most games have a balance. There will be easy trophies that have very simple requirements or may even auto pop - for example earning a trophy for completing a level. Then there will be tougher trophies for example Complete the game without losing a life. The average of these trophies for most games comes out between 40% - 60% and that consequently is normally the average of most peoples’ profiles.

 

Some games give surprisingly lower results – for example Trine gets 38.10% and Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 gets 40.41%. Trine is regarded as an easy game to complete and NGS2 is regarded by most to be in the top 5 of the toughest games to complete.

 

How do you calculate what the average rarity will be? The only way of knowing is to download the trophy list for the game and average all the trophies. Compare that to your current Average Rarity and if it’s lower, then that game will lower the score.

 

Another way to lower your score is just to complete the rarest trophies in a game and leave the uncommon ones. This is normally difficult to do as you’re likely to get uncommon trophies on the way to rare trophies. One definite way to keep your score lower is to ignore DLC’s due to the rarity being calculated differently and giving the highest possible rarity score, in some cases 100%.

 

So the likelihood is that to keep your average rarity low will be to the detriment of your completion stat.

 

A far better stat in my opinion is to take the rarest trophy earned for each game and then give an average of those games.

 

How would you calculate this figure? Just look at a game and see what the rarest trophy will be, if you achieve it and it’s lower than your current score then your stat will be lowered. Uncommon trophies will be ignored. DLC’s will largely be ignored unless they are rarer than the main game.

 

Now if you were to earn the platinum for Trine you would get a score of 24.07%, for NGS2 you would get a score of 2.63%. This of course is only if you complete the games (for example if the rarest trophy you’d earned in NGS2 was Clear the Game on the Path of the Acolyte then your score would be 41.65%). So your incentive would be to aim for the rarest trophy, this in turn will push you towards a higher completion stat.

 

I’ve already written a post on this but not many people liked it. Of course it’s my opinion but I feel this statistic is far more beneficial than Average Rarity due to the reasons above.

 

At the end of the day though Rarity is not only subjective but also due to other factors written in previous posts and this in itself makes it difficult for most to come to a decision what they want to see.

 

Another simple idea that MMDE came up with is to just replace the stat with a total of Ultra Rare trophies. I think that stat on its own is better than Average Rarity.

[X_RaceKing_X]

Id be more proud of lots of my DLC trophies if it were to return to the way it was, or a better adjustment that the way it is now. Some are so dam hard! and they are oddly common

[dalailama1989]

I wish, that for some game editions, where all content is delivered from the beginning, the DLC-owners would be the same numbers as the game-owners.

I'm thinking about some PS4-remasters like The Last of us and the Uncharted-Collection. All addons are installed from the very beginning on version 1.00. No patch or download needed - you cannot not have them

[Mr-Of-TacTicZz]

Since my topic is closed i will post it here.

DLC rarity should be on all game ownerd and not DLC ownees.

Like for example DLC of Warframe , Rocket League , Minecraft... You all say they are common no its not because they are free and no money is involved.

Example: Minecraft ive seen 2000+ owners on DLC pack 2 and ( i forgot how many own the game) for example 666.666 game owners. So this site is kidding that all trophies are common rarity!!!! It should be very rare! And the TOP point of all the DLC is free!

[FawltyPowers]

This topic goes round in circles. There's plus and minus points to both sides.

 

The best solution (and I can't remember who said it) is to have an option in your profile to show rarity by either main game owners or by DLC owners.

[Conker]

so sick of this being talked about..............

 

it's been changed to how it is and it's staying that way, just DEAL WITH IT!, or if you don't like it make your own website with dlc rarity tracked how you like it.

 

#THX

[Mr-Of-TacTicZz]

Well that why psntrophyleaders have more different leaderboards! And make your own , how great id that ive tryed that and i never found how to get the scripts and stuff that gets all info from sony. Like trophies and stuff!

[patrickogorman19]

Well that why psntrophyleaders have more different leaderboards! And make your own , how great id that ive tryed that and i never found how to get the scripts and stuff that gets all info from sony. Like trophies and stuff!

 

It has a rarity system that is a lot  more accurate  than psnprofiles.Because it includes all game owners, not just the DLC owners.

[Satoshi Ookami]

Well that why psntrophyleaders have more different leaderboards! 

Because... this site is not PSTL?

 

You ignore the main point that people tried to convey.

Users decided that long ago. I don't know why (ignoring the fact that there would be a flow of URs) and how (considering most people are actually against the new rarity) but it happened.

We already tried to discuss it in one HUGE thread but it has been decided to leave it like this.

[thegirlruka]

Well that why psntrophyleaders have more different leaderboards!

I like the way truetrophies has it set up. They manually select whether each dlc pack is free or paid and all free dlc is counted from the base game owners. All paid dlc is calculated by the average of game owners and the individual dlc pack's owners. The thing that annoys me about the way they do it is that they set it up as a ratio instead of a percentage.

[Dragon-Archon]

I like the way truetrophies has it set up. They manually select whether each dlc pack is free or paid and all free dlc is counted from the base game owners. All paid dlc is calculated by the average of game owners and the individual dlc pack's owners. The thing that annoys me about the way they do it is that they set it up as a ratio instead of a percentage.

IMO that should be done here too (except for the ratio thing). Then there are DLC trophies that are basically an extended version of the main game's trophies (Such as Mirror's Edge and The Last of Us). For example getting 50 stars in time trials is ultra rare, but 75 and 90 stars is only uncommon.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Dragon-Archon

[starcrunch061]

Man - if I never see this topic appear here again, it will be too soon. I know people care about this, but...man. 

[crimsonidol38]

I like the way truetrophies has it set up. They manually select whether each dlc pack is free or paid and all free dlc is counted from the base game owners. All paid dlc is calculated by the average of game owners and the individual dlc pack's owners. The thing that annoys me about the way they do it is that they set it up as a ratio instead of a percentage.

 

Generally spoken this is a good idea as there's quite a bunch of games with "DLC"-trophies that aren't really DLC and are a mere patch (e.g. Shovel Knight) or on-disc content (Uncharted Remastered, Gravity Rush Remastered, Rise of the Tomb Raider). But there's a problem with at least one game that comes to my mind: Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

 

The game's DLC became free in the US-region sometime last year but in the EU-region you still have to pay money for it. So a basic "this DLC is free or paid" doesn't work. Instead if you want to reflect the DLC-owner amount the best way possible you should have to distinguish the DLC's price (free/paid) by region, too. And I don't want to even think about the fact when a DLC with trophies isn't available in one region...

[thegirlruka]

The game's DLC became free in the US-region sometime last year but in the EU-region you still have to pay money for it. So a basic "this DLC is free or paid" doesn't work. Instead if you want to reflect the DLC-owner amount the best way possible you should have to distinguish the DLC's price (free/paid) by region, too. And I don't want to even think about the fact when a DLC with trophies isn't available in one region...

That DLC would still be paid in my opinion. DLC that is free for a week and then paid would also be considered paid. If it isn't available to everyone for free then it's impossible to call it free DLC.

[DeepEyes7]

On the first pages somebody said that the rarity of DLC should be divided by the total amount of players that have at least one DLC trophy of any of the DLC packs for that game, not just one trophy in their respective DLC pack... I like that idea.

[Satoshi Ookami]

On the first pages somebody said that the rarity of DLC should be divided by the total amount of players that have at least one DLC trophy of any of the DLC packs for that game, not just one trophy in their respective DLC pack... I like that idea.

That would still not fix the issue since it would still be incorrect in games with one DLC pack.

 

And I don't particularly like this idea. There would be more complaints like 'I liked pack 2 but I don't want to buy packs 1, 3, 4 because reasons' so... it would be even more incorrect than now.

[DeepEyes7]

That would still not fix the issue since it would still be incorrect in games with one DLC pack.

 

And I don't particularly like this idea. There would be more complaints like 'I liked pack 2 but I don't want to buy packs 1, 3, 4 because reasons' so... it would be even more incorrect than now.

 

Yeah, you're right, and it's true that there won't be an accurate answer as long as it is impossible to know how many people really bought and play each DLC pack... But it's very discouraging to see a hard DLC trophy from a DLC pack with one trophy getting a 100% rarity. (and for people that like to have low rarity average is even worse to complete DLC's)

 

How it was before give some DLC trophies an extremely low rarity that wasn't fair, and the actual mode give some DLC trophies a nearly 100% rarity that isn't fair either... So why don't just take out the rarity of DLC trophies? That would be more fair.

[Satoshi Ookami]

How it was before give some DLC trophies an extremely low rarity that wasn't fair, and the actual mode give some DLC trophies a nearly 100% rarity that isn't fair either... So why don't just take out the rarity of DLC trophies? That would be more fair.

I think splitting the DLC rarity would be the best option.

 

I believe Mango or someone suggested having old way of counting (owners/overall amount) and adjusting the rarity.

 

Something like

<0.5 = UR

0.5 - 1.5 = VR

1.5 - 3 = R

3 - 5 = U

>5 = C

[DeepEyes7]

I think splitting the DLC rarity would be the best option.

 

I believe Mango or someone suggested having old way of counting (owners/overall amount) and adjusting the rarity.

 

Something like

<0.5 = UR

0.5 - 1.5 = VR

1.5 - 3 = R

3 - 5 = U

>5 = C

 

I see, that sounds nice =)

[BlindMango]

I think splitting the DLC rarity would be the best option.

 

I believe Mango or someone suggested having old way of counting (owners/overall amount) and adjusting the rarity.

 

Something like

<0.5 = UR

0.5 - 1.5 = VR

1.5 - 3 = R

3 - 5 = U

>5 = C

 

Yeah! I think it would probably be the best sort of solution, here's that post.

[DeepEyes7]

New idea that I think would fix everything here - let me know what you think.

 

Okay, so I guess why not throw in my idea of how it should probably be, trash or love this idea as much as you'd like but read it all so you get what I'm saying   

 

DLC rarity should be calculated on the basis of all owners of the base game like it used to be (like how it is on PSN), as that is literally accurate (it doesn't matter if you've bought the DLC or not, the way it is on PSN is that the DLC trophies are packaged with the base game, no matter if you own it or not, that's the way it is and we can't change that). With this in mind, DLC rarity categories should be classified differently from the base game trophy categories. So instead of 5% and below being Ultra Rare for a DLC trophy, 1% and below should be Ultra Rare for DLC, and so on (or whatever it should be - 0.75%, 0.50% and below is ultra rare, whatever).

• In the Trophy Log and trophy lists it will just say for example "1.50% Rare (DLC)" for a DLC trophy, if it were a trophy for a base game, it would as usual say "1.50% Ultra Rare" like it does now. This will instantly explain the difference.
• This would resolve the issue with people thinking they have "Too Many" Ultra Rare trophies with the old system as it would still be hard to get an Ultra Rare DLC trophy due to their shifted requirement.
• This would resolve the issue with people thinking they "don't have enough" ultra rare trophies due to a 100% DLC trophy actually being a hell of an experience and it now being an accurate percent.
• Now the "Average Rarity" percentage at the top of your profile is an accurate number.
• The 5 rarest trophies module on the right side of your profile would now show your 5 rarest base games trophies and 5 rarest DLC trophies in a "separate" section under that (if people wanted that), otherwise they would just be mixed with each other.
• In the end, I think the trophy log would be the only thing that people may have an issue with if they decided to specifically filter "Order (Rarity)" and "Direction (Ascending)", if they did that they would obviously get some DLC trophies ahead of base game trophies (because you're filtering by rarity percent), it might look weird, but it's still accurate as you're filtering by rarity percent. If you filter by Rarity (Rarity Category) above all that, it would show all trophies (DLC and non-DLC) in that category filtered by percent. It might look odd, but it's still all accurate along the lines with what you're filtering.

I previously said months ago when Sly added the average rarity stat to profiles that he "shot himself in the foot" so to speak by doing that, I predicted threads like this and I wasn't wrong. 

 

Basically, return the DLC to rely on base game percents like it used to be but just shift the DLC percent categories (as the categories are what people care about). I really want to know what people think about this. Every other idea is "Yeah, but that messes this up" and so on, I can't think of what this would mess up, lol

 

[ProfBambam55]

I don't understand the rarity at all...just started paying attention to this statistic recently thanks to one of this site's forum games...I have the PSN app on my phone and noticed that the stats on this site are completely different to Sony's in many cases for both base game and dlc trophies...can't help but wonder, why not just follow Sony's lead?...I am not trying to start a debate as I don't really care about rarity, just post an observation from the point of view of simple logic...as long as everyone is being rated the same then who cares, right?...

[Satoshi Ookami]

I don't understand the rarity at all...just started paying attention to this statistic recently thanks to one of this site's forum games...I have the PSN app on my phone and noticed that the stats on this site are completely different to Sony's in many cases for both base game and dlc trophies...can't help but wonder, why not just follow Sony's lead?...I am not trying to start a debate as I don't really care about rarity, just post an observation from the point of view of simple logic...as long as everyone is being rated the same then who cares, right?...

Because almost all Plats are UR. That would devalue any rarity.