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Is the growing trend of making games episodic really a bad thing?


Wavergray

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For the pass few months, people in the gaming community have been getting really upset about the slowing growing trend of making AAA games episodic. The biggest example of this outrage right now is when Square Enix announced that both the Final Fantasy 7 Remake and the new Hitman reboot would be episodic, but is making any type of game episodic really a bad thing?

 

No, a game being episodic is not a bad thing, in fact it maybe one of the best things to happen to gaming in a long time.

 

Let us think about some game genres that could benefit from being made episodically.

 

RPGs: Now when you think about any type RPG what are some of the things that come to mind? 40-100 hours of gameplay, grinding for levels/money/items, a relatively open world to explore, tons of sidequests? An RPG being released episodically effects none of those things. An episodic RPG could easily be made that give you 1/3 or 1/4 of the story, 10 to 30 sidequests, a big chunk of the open world, and more than enough enemies to grind levels, money and items. A good example of how this would not hurt an RPG is Dragon Age Inquisition. Doesn't DA:I have like 10 or so open world like areas you can explore and are you not locked out of most of them until you finish certain parts of the story? If DA:I was split into a episodic game with 3 parts that had 3-4 areas, a 1/3 of the story, and a new batch of sidequests per episode with each episode released 3-4 months apart, would any of your feeling about the game change in anyway?

 

 

Mission based Exploratory Action/Adventure games: I'm not sure what the actual genre name for these types of games are called, but for this discussion think about games like the Assassin's Creed games, the inFAMOUS games, the Hitman games, and MGS 5. Now these types of game have a lot in common with RPGs when it comes to content, 20-70 hours of gameplay, a relatively open world to explore, and tons of sidequests. Plus most of the missions in games like this have multiple way you can finish a mission which adds to their replay value. And just like RPGs almost nothing is affected by having these games released episodically. I most of these types of games parts of the map are either lock away behind a story mission or the whole map is unlocked, but you are more or less punished for going to certain parts of the map to earlyand you can't do certain things there until later in the game. Now take any of those game and do what I just did to Dragon Age Inquisition. If any of those games were to be split into a episodic game with 3 parts that had 1-2 new areas unlocked, a 1/3 of the story, and a new batch of sidequests per episode with each episode released 3-4 months apart, would any of your feeling about the game change in anyway?

 

There are other game genres that could be made episodically and little to nothing would be lost. Sure there are some genres that should not be episodically like fighting games and the COD type of shooters, but even they could be split in some ways. With fighter you could easily just make it where someone can just buy a starter pack with story, arcade, training, and vs modes with the characters they want for $10 and let that person buy any other character they want for $3-$5 per character instead of forcing them to buy a new game for $60. COD type of shooters could easily be split into a $30 campaign mode and a $30 multiplayer mode. That way people who only like one of the modes can get the mode they want and save $30 and the people who like both can still have both for $60.

 

The other main thing I see when people talk about this topic is the price of each episode. People are always talking about how the game publishers are trying to rip people off by making them pay more for each episode instead of just releasing as a full game. I have always found this line of thinking to strange since there has yet to be a precedent of such a thing happening. Yes as currently stands, it is true that you will end up paying more if you buy each episode separately instead of buying the season pass, but that the price you chose to pay so you could try out the game instead of being stuck paying full price for a game you dislike playing. Plus if you do the math the cost of buying the first episode to see of you like the game than buying season pass off sale and the cost of buying all the episode separately is usually the same. Even the new Hitman game is more or less set up this way, You can pay $15 to try the first few levels and $10 for the next 5 episodes or you can take a risk and pay $60 upfront. If you buy the intro pack and like the game you will have loss $5, but if you dislike the game you have saved $45.

 

Now that I given you my thoughts on the topic, what are your thoughts? Is the growing trend of making games episodic really a bad thing? Do you my opinions are wrong or illogical?

Whatever your thoughts maybe, I welcome your perspective on this topic.

 

Edit:

Okay here are all of the points that were discussed in this topic.

Some people brought up the point that episodic game wane in quality as they are released, their main evidence to this point are the Telltale games. If you only use the Telltale as an example than yes this would seem like a good point, but there are some problems with that line of thinking. The main one being that the reason for the Telltale games wane in quality can be attributed to the fact that Telltale decided to make 4 different episodic games at the same time instead of making them one at a time. Because of this they had many development problems, and the quality of each game suffered. Now if you look into the other episodic games besides the Telltale games you will see that the general consensus is that every episode of an episodic game has had the same level of quality per each episode. The games that are an example of this are: RE: Revelation 2, Sonic the Hedgehog 4, FF4: the after years, KH: coded, and the Half-Life 2 episodes. At this current point in time we cannot say for sure whether or not this is a good point, but the new Hitman game will be the first big test for both sides of this opinion.

The next few points that were brought up are more or less the same point. That episodic game destroyed immersion, story progression, and the pace in which a player can play the game. People who have this opinion have said they would rather the game just be released as a whole game instead of episodically. Again these seem like good points, but all of these problems disappear if these people do one logical thing. Just wait for all the episodes to be released and buy the game as if it was never released episodically. Not only does this turn this whole topic into a non-issue for these people, but they also gain beneficial options. Since the game would have technically been out for a while it is more likely to go one sale much faster than a traditionally released game, trophy and gameplay guides will already be available for them to use if the wish to use them, both written and video reviews will be available for them to use to see if the is the type of game they want, and the episodic games tend to get a disc version after all the episodes are released so if they like to have their game on a physical disc it will be available for them. In this thread I have yet to see an argument against this point that was not some kind of logical fallacy caused mainly by a person’s choices. At this current point in time the best thing for people who are worried about immersion, story progression, and pace is to just wait things out. For example, if a game is announced in 2015, releases episodes in 2016, and has a full release in 2017 what is the difference between that and if that same game had been announced in 2015 and had a full release in 2017? The answer is nothing besides time and how a player uses their time is up to them. So if some players would rather spend parts of 2016 playing that game instead of waiting until 2017 they should have that choice.

The next point was about the cost of a episodic game. Once again the arguments for this point confuse me, because for the last 10 or so years the only difference between buying each episode separately or buying it as a traditional game off-sale is around $5. Even the new Hitman which will be the first $60 episodic game is sticking to this rule. Where the fear of paying prices like $60 per episode came from I’ll never know (it was probably people like Jim Sterling), but there is current no evidence to support that line of thinking. Saying things like it could happen without having any kind of evidence makes no logical sense. I have not even seen circumstantial evidence that could support that line of thinking, so I’m not sure why people are so afraid of this happening. At this current point in time there is no evidence to support that line of thinking, so just stop worrying about it until it actually happens.

As for that $5, as far I can tell from my research on this point, it normally goes towards the paychecks of the developers, you know the people who are making the game you want to play, the same people who have bills to pay and families to feed just like you. It’s not like they have an endless stream of money to pull from and they won’t work for free because who would work for free? You know if you actually researched why a lot of interesting games end up cancelled it’s because they ran out of money, and a lot of the time they have to leave a game that are more than 50% completed on the cutting room floor. By making some of these games episodic the developers could get enough money to finish the game and the big bad publisher won’t pull the plug on the game because there is some interest shown in the game and that could mean more profit for them.

Every other point brought up in this thread is just matter of personal opinion that don’t really take into account the opinions of other people. Opinions on whether or not certain game genres could be turned into an episodic game will always vary from person to person. Opinions on demos/betas/early access/PS+ 60 minutes trials have little to nothing to do with episodic released since demos are usually 10-20 minutes piece of the start of the game and not multiple of hours content like an episode is, betas are usually just pre-order incentives or server stress tests, early access is already worse every way than episodic released could ever be, and PS+ 60 minutes trials are tied to PS+ which means you have to pay to use it. Online passes are gone and even if they were still here they wouldn’t affect episodic released since if you bought the first episode the pass would be with it.

I may have missed one or two things, but this is basically what was discussed in this thread.

Edited by soultaker655
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Episodic release breaks the immersion and the story flow imo. For your example of DA:I (one of my favourite games), the story is already spread out far enough having the whole game, I can't imagine having to wait three months between any two story quests and remembering anything that I did in the quest before. Unlocking areas based on how the story progresses and your character gains more power and resources feels a lot more natural than having to buy new areas. 

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Yes.

You want to put out one fifth of your game now and put the rest out sporadically as the time comes? How about I pay you for one fifth of your game now and pay you sporadically until the rest of the episodes come. 

 

No.

You want to play some of the game now while we're still working on the game? Here, have part one, have some more later when we're done with it.

 

Yes.

If I wanted to wait months to see a story end I'd watch a TV show.

 

And so on. There's a bunch of positives and negatives to it, just like everything else out there. I'd be leaning toward it being a bad thing though. Here's my top five reasons, in no particular order.

1. Because waiting months on end for Telltale the developer to shit out the next episode with shit all updates while waiting, sucks dick.

2. Because why would I pay you for the full thing now, if I don't get the full thing now?

2.5. And don't give me the "you don't need to buy the season pass, you can buy each episode on their own" shtick, because in doing that I get punished and have to pay more.

3. Much like the "ship it now, patch it later" approach of literally nearly every developer lately some developers, the flexibility in timetabling can lead to bad things, look what happened when someone gave 3D Realms a shitload of money and let them spend a decade making Duke Nukem 4.

4. A lot of times, not all times, but a lot of times they end up stretching a story to make more money episodes, when it would have been a lot better as a 3 or 4 hour short and sweet game.

5. Resident Evil being the exception to this rule, but the episodic games are always trying too hard to be movies / shows. The gameplay in these games is almost always "walk here, interact with this, quicktime event, walk here, etc" FF7's remake is probably going to be the first big budget episodic game to shake that shit up, and really, as far as I can tell, they're just splitting up a full game into 3 parts to make more moneys. 

 

I need to go now because bus in 6 minutes bye.

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Doesn't bother me. I refuse to buy them one at a time, I just wait until the whole thing is out and on sale. If enough people did that, they'd stop releasing them one at a time and just release a full game, but as we see with "Day One DLC", people won't stop so they keep doing it. Don't like it, just do the talking with you wallet, but when the majority of the people keep eating it up, there's not much you can do.

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Interesting post. I, personally, disagree with you.

 

As of yet, most (I would safelly assume) episodic games have been done in a particularly way: as point and clicks, with a mechanic of choice, where certain actions you take affect the story and lead you to different path. (Life is Strange, The Wolf Among Us, Tales from the borderlands, and so many others). 

 

A problem that I have is that even though they have a very particular style, the quality is not always consistent. For example The Wolf Among Us, in my opinion had episodes that dragged out, and were not up to par with the rest of the game. So you might might end up buying a pretty bad game, and you paid for a full release. Besides with Hitman's example I've heard it is gonna launch with only the Prologue and Paris, so you are not gonna get much when it comes out, which showcases the biggest problem with episodic games: for how long will the developer support the game? Isn't it much easier to release in an incomplete state, add a few more maps and call it a day?

 

I'm not saying episodic is wrong, but it can have so many monetization, and quality problems that it casts doubt upon the model itself.

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I like some of the points you make with your point of view, and I agree with most. However, what was not mentioned is that you would have to download each episode, there are people who have no internet coverage so they want the whole package in one go. Shipping out each episode physically would increase costs and just doesn't make sense. There are also people who have slow internet and so they do not want to be waiting x amount of time to play parts of the game. I personally would be pleased if I could download a game without having either one of the multiplayer or single player components e.g. Evolve SP is pointless. This would then lead to problems for people collecting trophies as do they release a platinum for both SP and MP sections? I recall there was Killzone 3 MP released and this had it's own platinum so it could be done...

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I don't share the same opinion.

 

Making a game episodic destroys the immersion.  An example is with Telltale: With all the games they need to handle at the same time,there will be a delay now and then (The Wolf Among Us), making the player forget part of the experience, even though they show the important parts of the last episode.

 

I refuse to buy a game that's not complete. Got really upset with Hitman being divided into episodes, i was thinking about pre-ordering it, but now i'm going to wait until they deliver the full game.

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Yeah great, like that the devs would find a way to make the first episode a tad longer, charge 60 bucks for it, and then charge me 15 bucks a pop to unlock the other 3/4....

And so you'll end up paying over a hundred bucks for the full experience... i do love getting screwed over :P

Oh but wait, doesn't this already happen??... Hello day one dlc...

Devs are not there to make your and my life happier. They are there to make money for large companies whilst delivering an entertainment service. And that's fine, but let's not give them a reason to rip us off...

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I would rather games that are actually meant to be episodic be episodic, like TellTale stuff. I can sort of understand why FFVII Remake is, but not really Hitman (though I haven't followed that one too much). I have a theory (with a mix of naivete) that devs do it so their playerbase don't get impatient, so they release what they can to appease them, instead of risking bad publicity. But that's just a theory. I think if FFVII got a full release I think it would be worth the wait, same with Hitman. I definitely don't think games like Dragon Age should be episodic, since one of the major points of those games is immersion. And like mentioned above, if I get to the stopping point and have to wait a few months for the next episode I'm bound to forget things and mess up by making a choice I didn't want to. If it all came down to it I would rather wait for the full game to be made. Leave the episodic stuff to TellTale and things like Life is Strange.

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how about this.... when we pay the $60 for the game... it has ALL the content that devs want to be in the game... AND THEN.. if they want to add more stuff that they think would be cool to include... don't fucking charge $10-$??... or $60+ if you're assholes who run Destiny... give us everything that's should be in the game... when it releases.. episodes are a turn mostly a turn off because I hate waiting... the Telltale games... ehh ya know.. whatever.. it's their thing.. also... butts

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yes it is for this is just another way for them to take our money, first it was the dlc taken right out of the game and made to be pro order dlc or buy new dlc and now it's this, I may sound like am a odd kind of person when I say this but I want all of the content that is on the game I buy day one not half of it ripped out and turned into episodes just so they can get even more money from us even though you put £50 or maybe £60 on the damn thing

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I see what you're saying and you make some solid points. The problem I have is that since I've been gaming for 15+ years I'm simply use to getting the full game when I pay for it. Then I have the choice if I want to no life the game completely or take my time and play it here and there. If I'm paying for the game I want to get the full game. 

 

That's still an option, though. You just have to wait until they release all of the episodes. They typically offer a "complete" package for one price. 

 

I think people hear "episodic" and immediately assume everything bad that they've seen in an episodic game is going to happen. Wait and see rather than immediately assuming the worst. I was pessimistic about Resident Evil Revelations 2, but it ended up working fairly well. It depends on the game and how they go about doing it.

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Paying for a game while the delevopers are still working on it is not a good thing, you're paying for an unfinished product. 

 

You're saying putting 100+ hours on a RPG at once is bad? I'd rather do that instead of coming back two months later and try to remember all the stats/builds/quests I have left to do.

 

As my last point, what happens when one of this games flops? You think if the first part of a game doesn't sell well, the developers will continue the release of episodes? They won't, they'll run and take your money with them. You'll end up with part 1 of a crappy game and there won't be a thing you'd do about it.

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Yes

end-credits-o.gif

 

OK I will give more of an answer.

 

My problem with it is this.

 

1. You can't release a game in physical format. I mean the only way would be to have the game released physical that comes with an unlock code that will download the titles as they come. This means you cannot resell the game. This is a major problem as developers will have found a way to eliminate Used Games completely.

 

Now they could release a physical copy after the game is released in full, but now you are waiting up to a year to play a game just because you chose to buy it physically vs digitally.

 

2. What if the game never finishes? It isn't unheard of for a developer to go out of business. So we get 3/5ths of a story but then they go bankrupt and I don't get to finish my game?
 

3. I hate when I buy a season pass for a game but it still recaps every chapter to me because it is meant to be played over months. I bought the game when it was complete or I am replaying the game now that it is complete...WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME STUFF I LITERALLY JUST DID

 

Those are 3 reasons why I hate episodic games :)

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To be honest, I despise episodic games.

 

You ask if my feelings in an RPG would change for example? The answer is an absolute yes. Why? Simple: 3-4 months =/= 10-15 hours needed to progress through the story. Never.

 

Number 2. Why would I want to explore a world that is basically cut more than it is? You're basically taking out a lot of the "sandbox" concept to begin with. You're making a game that is meant to be somewhat open world turn into the most linear experience ever.

 

Exploration needs to be a charm. Perhaps some areas would be locked, but you (the player) know that after you complete certain stuff you're free to get at it. And you get the feeling of adventure that needs to be quenched asap, else it would just burn out most of the time.

 

What's worse is that I would have to wait a TON of time to get another part of the game ready. Pardon my language, but my first reaction would be "ah fucking finally! The new area is open!"

 

As a dude in youtube said once: Waiting is the BANE of exploration and adventure.

 

Perhaps some genres are kinda acceptable with being episodic. But the aspect itself is not a good thing for us, but for devs getting money, you do the math.

 

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I absolutely disagree with this.

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I would rather just buy one complete package than episodic.


- For one, I still buy physical copies. Some publishers have some weird habit of releasing what is essentially part one on disc, everything else as DLC. Really, what's the point in that? May as well download it all.

- I don't want to be told how much of a game I'm allowed to play and when I can get more. If I want to explore every nook and cranny and spend hours in one place, I will. If I want to blast on to the next area and see what happens next, I will. I don't want be told "you're stuck here for a few months until we decide to give you the next part".

- I play one game at a time. Start to finish. I'm not picking up a game multiple times when each 'episode' is released, trying to remind myself what happened previously and trying to 'get back into the swing of things'. If I drop a game part way through, that's probably the furthest I'll get. Episodic games are essentially games I'll probably never finish, because I moved onto other games after episode 1, games that give me a full package I can play till my hearts content, allowing me to maintain my interest for the duration.

- Episodic games usually end up more expensive than if they just put the whole thing in one package. It's essentially on par with cut content DLC and on disk DLC in terms of trying to snatch every penny they can from our wallets.

- They're an excuse to be lazy. Throw down for a season pass and it's even more reason. Why put in too much effort to the rest of the package when a majority of customers have already thrown down all the cash for something that's nowhere near finished.



Back on my first point, they can release the full package when the whole thing is released, but:
1) How long is that going to take? Probably 12 months at least.
2) It's not guaranteed to happen at all.



About OP's "it would be great for RPG's!" claim, as well as an extension of my second point:
I've been playing Fallout 4, so lets imagine that was episodic. You get access to the first two story missions and the first mission for each main faction. You explore every nook of a smaller chunk of the map you have access to, you get bored since you've done the 'main quests' and are sick of doing repetitive misc content. You stop playing for now until the next 'chapter' comes out.

Three or four...or five, maybe six months later, episode 2 comes out. What happened in the story so far again? What did the factions do? Where are the factions headquarters again? Where did I send my companions? Which settlement did I park my power armor at? Have I been here? Where did I store all my armor? Did I set up supply lines? Am I allied or enemy with that faction? Did I go back and get that item? Did this perk work with that item? Why haven't I used these skill points? Damn it, that's why I didn't used those skill points...How long will it take me to get 4 more skill points? Where did I buy this item? Why are the BoS shooting at me? Was I saving these caps for something? You know what, screw this, I'll just play Witcher 3, I remember where I am with that.

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Nope, I'm another one who's going to have to disagree on this. Although it might work for some games, I suppose, I really think it would be better to just release the whole thing all at once. Who wants to be waiting around and hoping that part 2 finally shows up? That would kill any desire I had to play, and then it would just sit there unfinished.

 

Or, I guess another option is waiting until they release all the episodes and then buying the game, but what if I don't want to wait over another year before I play it?

 

And then there's the whole paying more money part to it as well. Overall, I just really don't think episodic games are a good thing in any genre.

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Episodic games aren't necessarily a bad thing, what I have a problem is that "AAA" publishers are now starting to use them as a way to further rip us consumers off. They keep finding ways to cut up content and then sell it in an attempt to squeeze as much money as they can out of us. We've already had to endure online passes, season passes, preorder bonuses, day 1 DLC and this new episodic trend is just the latest in a long line of total BS anti-consumer practices that need to go away. If we can have games like The Witcher 3 as one cohesive product, publishers can't give the excuse that some of these games are "too big" to be just one game. I'm looking at you FFVII Remake. You think those episodes are gonna have anywhere near the amount of content as it should for how much it's gonna be priced? Hells to the no it won't.

 

Anyway, Jim "Fucking" Sterling explains this way better than I ever could...

 

Edited by Undead Wolf
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Then you can call me old school, but when I buy a game, I'd rather have the entire game. Not get a little bit and have to wait for the rest. Or have to wait longer for them to finish all the episodes so I can buy the package. I tolerate DLC. At least I can play the game without having the DLC.

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It really depends on what type of game I'm playing.

 

For example, Nekopara Vol. 1. Do I care about the plot? Not really, plot barely exist in the game. Was the game fun? Sure, I enjoyed the silly comedy it offered. Do I hate it for being episodic? No, it gave what I wanted at an adequate price point and seeing a continuation of the plot barely matters.

 

So ignoring series where plot isn't a big point, let's go to FF. Would you call sequals being in some way episodic. You can sort of say FF13 is an episodic series consisting of 3 games. Do we hate it for being that way? I am not sure. We might be hating it for plenty of different reasons, but at least inbetween each game, they took some time to try to fix the gameplay.... for better or worse. FF7 remake can be the same way, but whether or not they'll do it is up to SE.

Sort of hard to judge SE since she tends to stay calm and collect while saying "not interested" to everything.

 

In short, I think it is too early to judge FF7 remake. I admit I don't trust SE to do some amazing, but episodic is not bad by itself.

 

(For those saying it is troubling to wait for the next part, how do you watch episodic movies like Star Wars or LotR)

Edited by bladesoframen
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RPGs: Now when you think about any type RPG what are some of the things that come to mind? 40-100 hours of gameplay, grinding for levels/money/items, a relatively open world to explore, tons of sidequests? An RPG being released episodically effects none of those things. An episodic RPG could easily be made that give you 1/3 or 1/4 of the story, 10 to 30 sidequests, a big chunk of the open world, and more than enough enemies to grind levels, money and items. A good example of how this would not hurt an RPG is Dragon Age Inquisition. Doesn't DA:I have like 10 or so open world like areas you can explore and are you not locked out of most of them until you finish certain parts of the story? If DA:I was split into a episodic game with 3 parts that had 3-4 areas, a 1/3 of the story, and a new batch of sidequests per episode with each episode released 3-4 months apart, would any of your feeling about the game change in anyway?

 

Never been into DA, but only played DAO. In DAO you could select some locations from the world map and visit them. A lot of locations got closed off as you progressed. I really didn't like this, neither was I too big fan of the map and the "random encounters". What would have made the experience even worse was if I could only do some few levels, and then had to wait on a new game where in the new game all the old locations were locked again.

 

A big issue with RPGs and episodic is how the stats carry over. What if you haven't played previous episode? This would just annoy me.

 

In any case, this is devs wanting more money... no thanks. Seriously, there's very little positive in it for the player.

but episodic is not bad by itself.

 

(For those saying it is troubling to wait for the next part, how do you watch episodic movies like Star Wars or LotR)

 

Waiting isn't the only issue. Besides, you're comparing a movie series with 3 full length movies with a single game split into several episodes to get more money.

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