Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

[FawltyPowers]

White listing the handful of trophies mentioned by the OP is the right way to go.

 

These trophies have been earned just by playing the game.

 

People should not be penalised for this.

[daftprophet]

3 hours ago, Nitro said:

Not true. Deleting profiles do exist for this reason. If you keep your savefile, you will be find. For example:

Say you need 2 trophies for platinum in Black Ops 2: Reach Max rank and also complete all challenges in campaign. Then a hacker pops the platinum in a random game of MP. You can simply backup your save to a USB or PS+ Cloud Save, then delete your profile and download the save again and you can continue to play like nothing happened. 

You don't have to sync the illegitimate trophies to your profile, if you do that is on you. (Not implying you hack, just using "you" as an example) 

You're kidding, right? Most people aren't aware of this process. You cannot assume everyone knows exactly what to do if this occurs. Just saying. 

[Rowdi]

2 hours ago, DaivRules said:

 

You ask us to have concern for some peoples feelings for one reason but to be callous to other peoples feelings in the next sentence. LOL! 

 

Obviously our suggestion was extreme and completely over-reaching to find a solution. Once we find the unacceptable extremes to the solution of the problem, we can work our way back to middle-ground.

I never asked you to be callous. I only stated my own feelings about people's naivety in thinking it's ok to play in a public lobby on a game that's known to have hacked lobbies.

[B1rvine]

--

Edited July 3, 2021 by B1rvine

[KRATOS_31090]

Any game that has an online multiplayer the hacker can autopop trophies for everyone on PS3. All the hacker has to do is edit the sprx menu for the specific game that triggers the autopop. We would have to whitelist every online game.

[DaivRules]

20 minutes ago, Rowdi said:

I never asked you to be callous. I only stated my own feelings about people's naivety in thinking it's ok to play in a public lobby on a game that's known to have hacked lobbies.

 

Not everyone knows about trophies, hacked lobbies or illegitimate time stamps before they even start console gaming. Many people don't even pay attention to trophies until years after they've been playing games. Perhaps they just really like the CoD franchise and continue to play often, even with hacked lobbies. Then they find out their profile was added to PSNProfiles and watch their world ranks on occasion.

 

That's partly the point of the thread. For a franchise with such mass appeal that has sold in the numbers it has, there are going to be a large number of people affected who never got the memo that everyone is issued on their first day that there's a list of games with "known hacked lobbies." This suggestion will keep them from polluting the leaderboards while not giving them strikes for other peoples actions. 

 

For the record, it is okay to play in a public lobby on a game that's known to have hacked lobbies. It's only going to impact the less than 1% of gamers who care about trophy site leaderboards.

3 minutes ago, KRATOS_31090 said:

Any game that has an online multiplayer the hacker can autopop trophies for everyone on PS3. All the hacker has to do is edit the sprx menu for the specific game that triggers the autopop. We would have to whitelist every online game.

 

We sure haven't been seeing a rash of flags for "every online game". So no, we wouldn't have to whitelist every online game. Games would get evaluated over time for their impact like the games mentioned in the OP.

[KRATOS_31090]

14 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

We sure haven't been seeing a rash of flags for "every online game". So no, we wouldn't have to whitelist every online game. Games would get evaluated over time for their impact like the games mentioned in the OP.

Against whitelisting because it decreases the penalty of getting caught so more people will be inclined to do it.

[ProfBambam55]

What would be their motivation/imclination?...they really want to have hidden time stamps with no strike on their profile?...if, for example, you are missing trophies for blops 2 you go online with the intention of earning the trophies you need illegitimate for the plat...ding, ding...the proposition is to be the same as now...the time stamps are removed from the leaderboards and the plat revoked as far as the site's tracking is concerned...the only difference from the system now is basically no strike...why would more people want this?...are strikes on these listed games the only thing that prevent hackers with the current system?...if so, wow...no strike on a small selection of trophies = flood gates open?...trying to understand what you mean here...

Edited June 6, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[Sergen]

.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Sergen

[Rowdi]

@DaivRules 

Maybe I need to clarify myself. I'm sure there are some that are "late to the party" and didn't realize what had happened or didn't know that that was a taboo and for that there should be some forgiveness. Those are easy enough to check out though.

 

CoD's only have about 12 to maybe 18 months before the devs stop supporting the mp and move on to their next project. That's common knowledge to everyone, not just trophy hunters. Anyone that trophy hunts should not be blindly going into a public CoD lobby after that point and be surprised to find a hacked lobby. That's all I'm saying. 

 

I realize you and I approach trophy hunting differently. I'd avoid a 3+ year old CoD public lobby like it's the plague though.

 

 

[damon8r351]

5 hours ago, Rowdi said:

@DaivRules @PSXtreme_@ProfBambam55 what about people that earned their trophies for those games legit? I could care less, but I'm sure there are others that would get upset.

 

I'd probably be in this category. The amount I care about my trophies varies on a day to day basis, but I think I'd be a little mad if my Red Dead Redemption 100% didn't count for anything anywhere any more because that one to me was a legitimate accomplishment instead of just a numbers game. It took me nearly three and a half years, lots of tears (because I did most of it solo before glitches were commonly known), an epic boosting session where I was folding poker hands for 6 hours, and another nerve racking session trying to scrape together 10 people long enough to stand still for 10 minutes. No right way to fix this. Probably the only way is to show a bit more compassion in resolving disputes. If nothing else seems strange in their profile and the archive history of their profile checks out, it's probably a good chance they're telling the truth and to let it slide. I don't care what anyone says flagging is for, because it's not "removing erroneous timestamps from the leaderboard". It's for people who knowingly and intentionally tried to circumvent the system to receive something they didn't earn. That counter at the top of the leaderboard says "Cheaters Removed", not "Profiles With Erroneous Timestamps Removed". People in the wrong place at the wrong time aren't cheaters, because the intent was to play the game as designed.

[Darkette]

I'm all for this. Whenever something isn't blatantly distinguishable, the disputer gets automatically punished. This would be a step in the right direction imo.

[Milktastrophe]

7 hours ago, kuuhaku said:

Yes they are. While I was playing Resident Evil 5 on PS Now they were synced as soon as they were earned. Without manually syncing and while still playing the game, the trophies showed up here on PSNP.

 

Trophies on PS Now aren't automatically synced, you have to open the XMB and sync them manually. They don't sync automatically for me anyway.

But I agree you can't delete your profile on PSNow. I even closed a game once without syncing trophies, released I forgot to sync the trophies, booted up the game like 0.5-1 hour later and the trophies I had earned in the previous session were there waiting for me to sync.

[ars]

Think Ms Serzilla covered it all (as many other posts have), although it won't make people like Kratos even flinch because they'll just spam their "but it encourages hackers!" jargon ignoring the whole argument was refuted two posts back. But I'd like to add a thing or two:

 

I think it's important to acknowledge PSNP as a site is a mass tracker of PSN accounts created through not PSNP, but Sony. I think this situation would be quite different if you could only add your own PSN account into the service, but you can add any single one. I've checked dozens if not hundreds accounts throughout the years, and definitely caused quite a few to be added while at it.

 

PSNP, in their capacity as a third party mass tracker is not in a position to impose any sort of ruleset on anyone who plays a PlayStation - who is by definition Sony's costumer, not PSNP's - unless they created a forum account here and chose to represent themselves as a site user. As a device a PlayStation is a property you own and if you want to CFW and program the crap out of it, it's your prerogative. Getting this fact through one's head will immediately void the whole silly concept of how hacking devices as a hobby would be somehow "shameful", how you should need to "catch" hackers, and how they somehow mystically threaten your gaming, which by and large is your personal endulgence and always will be nothing but that.

 

RDR is a good example of a double standard. The general consensus is the RDR servers are hacked, and that is the reason the XP exploit exists. Yet no one who plays RDR and gains clearly "illegitimate" timestamps abusing this is flagged. Contrary to what Ms Serzilla says you did indeed have to deliberately seek those lobbies at times, I don't know what the situation is now. And this behaviour isn't only condoned, but recommended by this site.

 

But the above is irrelevant when conveniently forgotten is also the fact, that practically no plat is achieved under a controlled environment. I'm repeating myself here but there is no way to know (or prove unless you've captured the whole run) whether the legitimate looking timestamps are truly legitimate or not. As a game like GTAO gets patched, common exploits get removed and nerfs are introduced, a current player will have to play two-threefold as long a player had to on release. While this doesn't directly affect the legitimacy of the timestamps, it does make it so that there is nothing comparable or competitive between two different trophy sets between two different users, and the same counts for the leaderboards. Someone else's gaming could not possibly affect you in any way and whatever problems you might have about them, it's in your head and your head only. But I digress.

 

I'm not saying PSNP shouldn't decide on the appearance of the leaderboards. Of course they should, it's your local leaderboard, you have full control over it. You want "clearly impossible" timestamps not to count, then they don't and that's the end of it. But I find the flag system and the tendency to impose some self-invented ethicalities on random people on the internet horrifying. There is indeed a group of people who would like to limit site functions on someone for playing a game. People who are not even the users of this site. Just look at the various anti-hacker posts on this thread.

 

When you pick random people on the internet, and then directly attempt to affect their reputation to an audience of two hundred thousand because you don't like the way they play, there's no two words about this. It's griefing. It's no different to what happens on games listed on this thread, when the host tries to ruin the way you play without your consent.

 

Now, you cannot change people and how they like to act on the internet. But you can prevent them access to tools or excuses to behave a certain way. I can't see how the whitelists wouldn't be the best of both worlds,. It will still keep script kiddies in check regarding the local leaderboards, but will leave expert hackers off the hook because you never were able to detect them. At the same time it keeps abusive behaviour in check regarding script kiddies and any random bystander who just happened to be there. Reading the thread I see many posts that are hostile and use dubious reasoning to justify shaming people who are unable to defend themselves. It's not something I like to see, not on Facebook, not here, not anywhere.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ars

[Sergen]

I'd like to add another thing... If this kind of thing can happen to these games, it can happen to any games, so you might as well tell people to not play games online anymore because of the risk of trophies being unlocked for you in your lobby, it can happen to any game on any day, it only takes a few unlucky people to find out. Deleting the user isn't a 100% guaranteed way to avoid illegitimate looking trophies, because even if they delete the user some games store your stats to the servers and that would cause the trophies to unlock upon loading, you can't force someone to stop playing a game that means a lot to them just because you don't like the way their trophies unlocked...

 

I'm going to a bit of an extreme now but let's say this, if someone goes into a crowd of people and shoots a bunch of them and throws their gun at you and you catch it, does that make you a murderer? No it doesn't, you caught the gun not knowing what the consequences would be, just like a lot of the people who join the lobbies who have the hacker unlock their trophies, they sabotage the lobbies and kill people's trophy lists and someone syncs up the list without knowing the consequences. 

[thegirlruka]

1 hour ago, Milktastrophe said:

 

Trophies on PS Now aren't automatically synced, you have to open the XMB and sync them manually. They don't sync automatically for me anyway.

But I agree you can't delete your profile on PSNow. I even closed a game once without syncing trophies, released I forgot to sync the trophies, booted up the game like 0.5-1 hour later and the trophies I had earned in the previous session were there waiting for me to sync.

It's possible that that has changed since I used it as I haven't used PS Now in 2 years. For the time I used it though, it would automatically sync.

[Rowdi]

@Ms Serzilla There's more reasons to avoid old CoD lobbies than just auto popped trophies. Most of these hacked lobbies also come with god mode cheaters. Why would anyone want to play in that kind lobby regardless of trophies? CoD just happens to be one of the most popular games and probably the reason why it's hacked the most. W@W is supposedly so bad now that's it's harder to find a clean lobby than a hacked one.

 

All I'm saying is that you're asking for trouble when you play a CoD's mp that is no longer supported by the developer. 

 

 

[ars]

10 minutes ago, Rowdi said:

All I'm saying is that you're asking for trouble when you play a CoD's mp that is no longer supported by the developer. 

 

You, me, and around, uh, a hundred thousand(?) people who are currently active in the trophy hunting community would know this. But the last time Sony addressed the size of their user pool, there are sixty million PSN accounts that log on weekly, and over a hundred million total.

 

When there is suggested you should've known better than to play a specific game, or be prepared to delete your account to prevent a sync, or know beforehand under which circumstances a specific trophy is supposed to pop, you need to weigh those arguments against what level of awareness you could expect from the user in general. My belief is not much, considering what a small fraction of PSN users we represent.

 

I'm prepared to say an average gamer would just grab a used MW2 because it was $2, check a guide off GameFAQs at best, and shrug when things start popping in multiplayer.

[Rowdi]

2 minutes ago, ars said:

 

You, me, and around, uh, a hundred thousand(?) people who are currently active in the trophy hunting community would know this. But the last time Sony addressed the size of their user pool, there are sixty million PSN accounts that log on weekly, and over a hundred million total.

 

When there is suggested you should've known better than to play a specific game, or be prepared to delete your account to prevent a sync, or know beforehand under which circumstances a specific trophy is supposed to pop, you need to weigh those arguments against what level of awareness you could expect from the user in general. My belief is not much, considering what a small fraction of PSN users we represent.

 

I'm prepared to say an average gamer would just grab a used MW2 because it was $2, check a guide off GameFAQs at best, and shrug when things start popping in multiplayer.

I feel like we're arguing the same point. Only that you're only reading half of my posts and misinterpreting something.

[ars]

Did read it all, must've misinterpret

[Sergen]

What I've thought of personally is that dates that the incidents occurred should be considered for the whitelisting. I'll say these dates but people can correct me if hacked lobbies occurred before these dates. Firstly, I'd like to say that Red Dead Redemption should be left alone because reaching Level 50 with the glitch is something people can only do within the boundaries set by the game and it is the method that the PSNPROFILES TROPHY GUIDE RECOMMENDS so if someone on the staff of PSNProfiles approved this guide with the information it provides, it should most certainly be an acceptable way for ANYONE to get the trophy and it's only a few trophies that can be earned this way and not the entire trophy list, it's not like you can use this glitch to get 100% completion on the base game for example.

 

Below are the games on the list and the dates I feel it would be suitable to whitelist in regards to the trophies

 

Black Ops II: Early 2015 to present: I say early 2015 because it's the first time I was seeing people complain about all trophies being unlocked for them in a lobby, but dates before this may not be through a modded lobby, but someone else can quote me if I'm wrong. Whitelist Big Leagues if every other trophy is in order and consider it as a glitched trophy. Do not flag people who earned trophies in an illegitimate way after these dates, before these dates they could use CFW and other means to try to unlock trophies in the wrong order. I'd say it's fair to let someone keep this platinum/100% if they do every single trophy on the game first before doing Big Leagues and they can provide evidence for every other trophy being legit, I'm saying this because you don't need to mod your own console to get Big Leagues like this and the whole reason people get flagged in the first place is "we can't differentiate whether you hacked it yourself or not" but with proof such as videos you can't exactly say they didn't do the game legit. 

 

Modern Warfare 2: Early 2015 to present: Once again, I say this date because it's the first time I heard of people complaining about all trophies being unlocked for them in a lobby, but before this time period people were hacking spec ops trophies with save files. 

 

World at War: Mid 2011 to present: The first video I found which had all trophies unlocking in it was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43WR4EpzqX0 

 

GTA IV: Mid 2012 to present (@ProfBambam55 will know more about if modded lobbies were on the game earlier): this was the first modded lobby video I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImyOq_MpiZY 

whitelist Cut Your Teeth & Wanted that were earned seconds apart after these dates, before these dates people could hack the trophies with a save file if it was their first time ever starting the online so I'd say people from mid 2010 to mid 2012 who earned both Cut Your Teeth & Wanted seconds apart before every other trophy should remain flagged. When the trophy patch was introduced people who were already level 10 could autopop both trophies if they earned that rank before trophies were on the game but I'd say anyone who could have done it would have done it by mid 2010. 

 

GTA V: September 2015 to present, after September 2015 Rockstar stopped updating the game on PS3 which gave room for hackers to run free and fuck with lobbies but before these dates people had to risk being banned and setting up DNS servers to award themselves with infinite money and fast levelling. In December 2013 there was an RP glitch that was exceptionally fast and allowed people to achieve level 100 in 2 hours, this was within the boundaries set by the game and was not too fast for the time it was possible. 

 

I won't leave an opinion on Warhawk because it's not confirmed if trophies unlock for people through playing the game with hackers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ms Serzilla

[Potent_Delusions]

Warhawk shouldn't be on this list. It does not have hacked lobbies that award trophies, only hacked lobbies that make players fly faster/invincible etc. It doesn't pop the awards or badges or anything like that.

But for the other games I can 100% agree.

 

For me the shining example is Black Ops 2...people who don't care too much about trophies and want to play the multiplayer but also do not want to be flagged basically cannot play the MP because of the risk of trophies autopopping for them through no fault of their own. This isn't something you have to go out and seek...it's in a large majority of the public match lobbies that you access just by clicking "find match". It just seems very unfair to flag people like this because like others have said...exploits in Red Dead Redemption once had to be sought after in the MP yet people didn't get flagged for that. 

These kinds of games with autopopping of entire trophy sets through no fault of your own should be whitelisted.

 

 

[DARKB1KE]

5 hours ago, Milktastrophe said:

 

Trophies on PS Now aren't automatically synced, you have to open the XMB and sync them manually. They don't sync automatically for me anyway.

But I agree you can't delete your profile on PSNow. I even closed a game once without syncing trophies, released I forgot to sync the trophies, booted up the game like 0.5-1 hour later and the trophies I had earned in the previous session were there waiting for me to sync.

They auto sync if you are set to online mode and even attempt look at your trophies to check it, it will sync.. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by DARKB1KE

[ProfBambam55]

thanks @Ms Serzilla (do you mind if i add the tentative cutoffs to the op?) for the research and intel and @Potent_Delusions.for clarifying warhawk...i will remove the latter from the op...as far as gta iv is concerned i really am not sure...i would've guessed around 2011 for when hacked lobbies started to become a thing but "would've guessed" is not going to help us much here...if time stamp evidence suggests 2012 then that seems a fair cutoff to me...my concern with a game like rdr is that some day someone might decide to go through the list and start flagging trophies so perhaps considering whether or not it is deemed to be white listed or not can be discussed now...if the trophy guide suggests using modded lobbies to rank up but omits that this process also dings some of the kill specific ones mentioned in the guide then perhaps we should consider either editing the guide or having the kill-related ones white listed as well...thoughts on rdr?...i have no idea about the game so further info would be appreciated...are there any other games that would fall into the category of trophies being auto-popped in a public lobby that i have missed here?...

 

i'm going to have to disagree with letting people keep the plat/100% for big leagues after the cutoff date you've mentioned despite agreeing with the logic behind it...i think the same philosophy can then be applied to games like fifa 09 and the real world winner trophy and possibly others so would prefer to avoid having that kind of conversation here...the goal is just to remove the trophies with implausible time stamps that are likely caused by a hacker in a public lobby without someone having a strike to their name or hide games on their profile...

 

i also had an idea that could fall into the category of prevention...just a sort of side topic here...what if we linked a gameplay guide to each of these game's trophy guides stating something along the lines of "caution - some/all of these games trophies can be auto-popped by hackers in public lobbies...should this happen to you, you risk having the trophies not appear on your profile on this site...here is a way to prevent these types of trophies from sticking to your profile...and then proceed with the step-by-step explanation on how to remove the trophies from profile within a spoiler or something"...just an idea with the goal of making awareness towards these kinds of trophies more prevalent on the site before the fact...i don't like the current thread about what to do when trophies are popped in modded lobbies as i find it lacks information for people who have no idea how technology works...frankly i had to fill in a lot of the blanks when attempting to follow its steps...suggestions for improvements have been ignored so would also recommend having a look at it and modifying it if necessary before we make it an "official" solution that is being linked to or recommended...

 

also just a side note...i do think some people make a living off of video games and earning trophies as i've heard of more than one case of someone being sponsored by a dev with perks like early access to games and whatnot...whether trophies are the key factor in sponsorship is another matter altogether although they might be the motivation behind the gamer being sponsored...also, tracking websites like this one and others generate revenue as far as i'm concerned so definitely fall in the category of making a living off of trophies...i know, that's not the point of the earlier argument and way off topic here...i've been making an effort to hear  and adress everyone's arguments and concerns against white listing...just thought the topic of gaming to make a living was interesting so posted my thoughts...

Edited June 7, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[Milktastrophe]

2 hours ago, DARKB1KE said:

They auto sync if you are set to online mode and even attempt look at your trophies to check it, it will sync.. 

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. You have to look at the trophies manually to sync them. Do other people call that auto sync?