Why isn’t auto popping trophies classed as cheating?

[Komrade_Dusty]

The rules of the trophies are whatever the dev makes them to be. Hard, easy, auto-pop on transfer, shut down the servers for a game making the platinum unobtainable. We all exist within whatever system they set up. How many shovelware games can someone do in the time it took me to platinum Horizon Forbidden West's PS4 version then transfer the save to the PS5 version? A lot. Auto-pop trophies will have lower rarity which is some kind of penalty, but classifying them as cheating is ridiculous.

[JediKnight_327]

Not cheating, but this entire issue (as well as other issues) could have been avoided if Sony only made 1 trophy list for 1 game regardless of how many platforms it was on (like this).

 

Even if you use the autopop feature for its intended purpose and continue your PS4 save game on PS5, you would end up with a 100% on PS5 but an incomplete PS4 trophy list, so it's no surprise why most people who are interested in trophies arent using it the way it was intended, and just finishing the PS4 version instead before loading up the PS5 version.

 

I suspect it will continue since Sony probably make millions in extra sales on the backs of people who are willing to pay for the same game multiple times.

[Nebnit]

15 hours ago, audiopile said:

I got some hard truth for y’all: no one cares about your trophies except you and a few others that think getting a trophy somehow makes you a special person.  It doesnt.

 

So those 3982 profile views you have were all just some busy web crawlers, right?

[DrBloodmoney]

8 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

They're not going to bother hearing alternate opinions, and this is something I see far too often nowadays what with smartphone internet access and instantaneous webpage loading.

 

Finally - someone saying it how it is!

 

I, for one, am constantly rendered unable to hear people... due to the deafening roar of web-pages loading too quickly.

 

 

 

 

[TomataEighty9]

16 hours ago, audiopile said:

  I got some hard truth for y’all: no one cares about your trophies except you and a few others that think getting a trophy somehow makes you a special person.  It doesnt.

WHO thinks any trophy will make you special? ?

 

this is a hobby, and only other games care about trophies, and even between gamers, most only focus on their own trophy hunting. 
 

if people wanna be special in other People’s eyes, i would recommend switching trophy hunting for volunteer work ?

[skotafactor]

2 hours ago, JediKnight_327 said:

I suspect it will continue since Sony probably make millions in extra sales on the backs of people who are willing to pay for the same game multiple times.

I see this kind of language asserted a lot, especially with 5 min plat games. My understanding though is that ”trophy hunters” are really just a fraction of the overall PlayStation ecosystem. When you look at something like “The Jumping Sushi”, each stack only has about a thousand players. At what that game is priced, nobody’s retiring off its sales. Are they making way more than they should off of something they didn’t put any effort into? Sure. But I’d imagine it’s similar statistics for higher cost games as well (that don’t have free upgrades at least). 
 

I feel the same way about 5 min plats that I do auto-pops, it’s not for me, but I don’t care what anyone else does. I’ve been known to be a hypocrite as well. Personally I’d rather spend my time on the best version of a game, rather than nerfing some features or performance to be able to get it to auto-pop. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by skotafactor

[MonaSaxPayne]

16 minutes ago, TomataEighty9 said:

if people wanna be special in other People’s eyes, i would recommend switching trophy hunting for volunteer work ?

 

+1 for SharePlay? lol

[TomataEighty9]

4 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

+1 for SharePlay? lol

 

Shareplay is cool  

 

But when you use it, to have someone else doing your trophies, it gets a little sad though. (in my eyes). 

 

But we already had that discussion mate  

[RedDevil757]

It would be great if there was a leaderboard that filtered out all platinums earned in let's say less than 30minutes.

 

It'd filter out all the autopop nonsense and all the pay for plat games and give something for the true hunters to do on leaderboards.

[Nebnit]

1 hour ago, TomataEighty9 said:

if people wanna be special in other People’s eyes, i would recommend switching trophy hunting for volunteer work ?

 

First I wanna ask the forum mods and the CRT staff how special they feel.

[EqualityEarth]

I’m confident that a proper understanding of the auto pop implementation starts with stepping back from the trophy hunting context.

Sony or its game developers aren’t inherently thinking about someone playing the same game on multiple consoles to reach 100% trophies in each version of that game, let alone going back any generation (PS3, VITA) to play old game versions or even preceding games in a series. Their model subscriber is someone who has been looking forward to PS5 since it was announced and will promptly drop all outdated hardware to start playing whatever is coming up on the new console.

 

With some games getting updated or carried over to PS5, surely this good little consumer would be none too pleased with needing to start the PS5 version of the game he was currently playing from scratch, starting over with new game and 0% trophies. Thanks to the save transfer feature and trophy auto pop, this lucky guy gets to pick up from where he left off on the old console and even his trophies get caught up too.

 

My point is, that PS4 trophy list hanging back there at partial % isn’t part of the picture. The completion rate for all trophy supported games isn’t part of the picture either. The intention behind the feature is confined to the convenience of swapping the old console for the new one. The 0-1 second completion times (for PS5 games auto popped by the PS4 game at platinum) being included under fastest achiever lists is by no intention either. It’s just a result of the trophies popping instantly instead simply copying the time intervals of the old list. Excluding them from eclipsing completion times that others started from zero on PS5 is a separate issue that would require being able to exclude trophy achievement display without flagging the user, which is probably why there isn’t one.

 

Chances are this point has been made here already.. and PS4 games being playable on PS5 (aka the new PS4 Pro) for the vast majority of the library probably makes this a moot point but it felt like a good guess at the time of writing ?‍♂️

Edited September 5, 2022 by EqualityEarth

[Tsundokuist]

22 minutes ago, EqualityEarth said:

The 0-1 second completion times (for PS5 games auto popped by the PS4 game at platinum) being included under fastest achiever lists is by no intention either. It’s just an result of the trophies popping instantly instead simply copying the time intervals of the old list. Excluding them from eclipsing completion times that others started from zero on PS5 is a separate issue that would require being able to exclude trophy achievement display without flagging the user, which is probably why there isn’t one.

You make good points but the issue here is if you ignore all platinums under say 1, 5 or 15 mins for fastest achiever you’ll just end up with people who get to <5 mins from Platinum on PS4, load that on PS5 to pop all but the final trophies then play making sure their platinum time is just outside the cut-off to count for fastest achiever.

 

Ultimately, people are sort of pathetic and will always find a way to game the system. It’s best to remember this is all just relatively meaningless and it’s best not to care about any of it outside playing games you enjoy, using your own profile to show your “journey” and benchmarking yourself against specific, like-minded people.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Tsundokuist

[Viper]

It's not cheating, but I can understand why people feel that way. I've only auto-popped 2 games, Avengers and No Man's Sky...that was right when I got my PS5 and it was purely based on curiosity to see it in action. I personally don't like it...mainly because according to here, Avengers popped in 0 seconds...so now my name isn't even loaded on to the leaderboard at all, nor is it considered my fastest Platinum (NMS is at 1 Second...which is another thing I don't like), other than listing it on my profile, it's like it doesn't exist in my statistics. So Avengers makes me feel like I cheated...I knew it was be considered fast, but I wasn't expecting a completion time like that and it feels very wasteful (I thought it was going to take however long it would have taken to pop every trophy, so it would have been more like a minute and a half, rather than nothing at all). So that's on me, and I have no plans to auto-pop anything else any time soon. 

[Connie]

It's Sony's policy to allow auto pop trophies you've done from ps4 to ps5. Of course its not cheating if it automatically pops from ps4 to ps4 if that's how it's designed 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Connie
To be more specific

[Sicho]

in the end, the only thing we do is pushing buttons on a gamepad.

 

this discussion is weird

[DaivRules]

52 minutes ago, Connie said:

It's Sony's policy to auto pop trophies you've done from ps4 to ps5. Of course its not cheating if it automatically pops from ps4 to ps4 if that's how it's designed 

Its Sony’s policy to allow developers to choose if they want to auto pop trophies from PS4 to PS5, it’s definitely not a Sony mandate as someone reading your comment might think you’re claiming. There are plenty of PS5 titles that do not auto pop trophies already done in the same game on PS4. 
 

[TheRagingSemi]

15 hours ago, EverythingOnFire said:

If it weren't a contest, there wouldn't be scores and a leaderboard. We've even got Guinness World Records giving certificates/awards to trophy hunters.

 

I want to clarify that I don't think auto-popping is cheating, because the ability to auto-pop is right there for everyone, with no deception involved. But yeah, this is absolutely one big contest. It's just that the majority of the contestants don't care.

 

Perception is everything. This is not a big contest to MOST players.

[virianna]

23 hours ago, running_Amok_86 said:

Personally I wish autopopping wasn't a thing.  I wouldn't say it's cheating, but I would be more inclined to buy a good remake/upgrade if I was able to go for the trophies again.  Maybe this is possible if I delete my previous save files?  Even if it is, I wouldn't want to do this and lose all progress in the previous version.  So it kinda sucks in my opinion.  I also agree with the people saying it messes up the stats.  The fastest plat stat on anyone's profile who autopops is basically pointless at this point.

Ps4 and ps5 versions of the games are separate "entities" and your ps4 save won't show up in your ps5 version just because you have it on your ps5, nor you are required to delete your ps4 save to ensure trophies will autopop. Only mentioned here Hitman 3 is forcing autopop for some reason if i understood correctly, otherwise you gotta put a little effort and transfer your saves to ps5 as well as import them in game. So worry not and enjoy your fresh playthroughs on ps5

[running_Amok_86]

5 hours ago, virianna said:

Ps4 and ps5 versions of the games are separate "entities" and your ps4 save won't show up in your ps5 version just because you have it on your ps5, nor you are required to delete your ps4 save to ensure trophies will autopop. Only mentioned here Hitman 3 is forcing autopop for some reason if i understood correctly, otherwise you gotta put a little effort and transfer your saves to ps5 as well as import them in game. So worry not and enjoy your fresh playthroughs on ps5

Oh so in general they don't autopop?  I thought it was an automatic thing the way people have desribed it.  So if I have the PS4 plat for TLOU and now go and play the PS5 version, and don't do anything special when loading up the game, can I go for the trophies again without autopoop?

[Ashande]

6 hours ago, virianna said:

Ps4 and ps5 versions of the games are separate "entities" and your ps4 save won't show up in your ps5 version just because you have it on your ps5, nor you are required to delete your ps4 save to ensure trophies will autopop. Only mentioned here Hitman 3 is forcing autopop for some reason if i understood correctly, otherwise you gotta put a little effort and transfer your saves to ps5 as well as import them in game. So worry not and enjoy your fresh playthroughs on ps5

 

Hitman 3 does not force an autopop. You have to specifically opt in by downloading your Hitman 2 save. (Which wasn’t even working correctly/consistently at launch due to server issues. It may be fixed, now.)

 

1 hour ago, running_Amok_86 said:

Oh so in general they don't autopop?  I thought it was an automatic thing the way people have desribed it.  So if I have the PS4 plat for TLOU and now go and play the PS5 version, and don't do anything special when loading up the game, can I go for the trophies again without autopoop?

 

The only autopop game that I’ve personally played that did it “automatically” was Mortal Kombat 11; once you connect to the servers, it syncs any stats you had online, and the next time you do something related to a trophy that you had already earned on the PS4 version, it will unlock the trophy. (Though this does not apply across the board; some trophies don’t unlock until you do them again in their entirety.) The majority require you to specifically select an option to import your PS4 version’s save, and several - both Nioh games and Binding of Isaac, for example - require you to start the PS4 version, select an “upload save” option, then start the PS5 version and select a “download/import” save option (similar to how the transfer system between the PS3 and Vita versions of Metal Gear Solid worked, or how the PS4 and Vita versions of Isaac worked.)

 

TLOU Part 1, so far as I am aware, does not have an autopop from the PS4 version, as it is considered an entirely separate game. I may be incorrect on this front, so someone who’s played it could probably state for sure. Regardless, given how other Sony exclusives work, I’m willing to bet if it does have the import option, it’s something you have to specifically select, not something that just happens.

[virianna]

Tlou part 1 does not even offer option to save import. 

Rule of the thumb is that if you start on fresh save you get to collect trophies again and nothing will autopop.

If you opt to use your ps4 save you get the trophies to autopop. 

[BrettyBoy]

Here is my take on cloud synced platinums.

 

The way I see it, if you already obtained the platinum of a game on one version of a game then it’s fair game to cloud sync to obtain another version of the same platinum because it isn’t cheating since game developers intentionally allow it plus you already done the work anyway and the way I see it, you worked just to get the privilege to cloud sync. 
 

If someone wants to cloud sync, that’s the person’s choice and if someone doesn’t want to cloud sync, that is also the person’s choice and I see no point when people get at others for cloud syncing platinums because like I said, the game developers intentionally allow it after all.

[BrettyBoy]

1 hour ago, BrettyBoy said:

Here is my take on cloud synced platinums.

 

The way I see it, if you already obtained the platinum of a game on one version of a game then it’s fair game to cloud sync to obtain another version of the same platinum because it isn’t cheating since game developers intentionally allow it plus you already done the work anyway and the way I see it, you worked just to get the privilege to cloud sync. 
 

If someone wants to cloud sync, that’s the person’s choice and if someone doesn’t want to cloud sync, that is also the person’s choice and I see no point when people get at others for cloud syncing platinums because like I said, the game developers intentionally allow it after all.

Oh, I see a topic I made about my take on cloud syncing got merged into this thread.

[DrBloodmoney]

21 hours ago, Ashande said:

Hitman 3 does not force an autopop. You have to specifically opt in by downloading your Hitman 2 save. (Which wasn’t even working correctly/consistently at launch due to server issues. It may be fixed, now.)

 

That's not what the "forced" Autopop is in Hitman 3 is that folks refer to - it's not going form Hitman 2 to Hitman 3, but rather, from Hitman 3 on the PS4 to Hitman 3 on the PS5.

 

I played the game on PS4 and S-Ranked it, but switched to the PS5 version once I got a PS5, to continue doing the Elusive Targets / New Content on the better version.

 

Because all the unlocks etc are stored server-side, on a server-side profile, you don't have the option of choosing whether to import a save or not - as you do with something like, say, the Resident Evil Remake upgrades.

The moment you launch the PS5 version using your PSN account, it will automatically connect to the online IO Account that is linked to that PSNID, and immediately start popping all the trophies, as the profile is what is driving the trophy unlocks, not the local save.

Edited September 7, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[Waspfarmer]

i do hate auto popping will never do it to any titles i have - if u liked the game that much u can do it again its a cop out to be honest