"Press X For Trophies" Coming to PSN

[djb5f]

5 minutes ago, VeldinX said:

Because Sony said games like this wouldn’t get platinum trophies then changed the rules allowing for this problem. There, one reason Sony is at fault. Also, as I said before, Xbox don’t have achievements in some bottom rate crapware so perhaps Sony should do the same. 
 

I even mentioned how PlayStation minis was the perfect solution but again, you’ve ignored that. You can’t say my criticism hasn’t been constructive at least. 

Keeping these types of PSN-only games to the mini-lists (non-plat) would’ve been nice.  Sony could’ve done something on that front.  The genie is already out of the bottle though so not like leaderboards will ever be “corrected”.  
 

But let’s face it, leaderboard chasing was always an exercise in futility.  Just boiled down to 1) who had the most free time (or fewest interests outside of gaming) and to a lesser extent, 2) who had the most disposable income.

 

If anything, these shovelware games are actually helping a lot of trophy hunters see the absurdity of leaderboard chasing and to better focus on their OWN gaming.

 

[flashpool23]

Wouldn't it be neat if this game has you press everything but X for trophies? 

[kinnyman]

29 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

So then why suggest an impractical/impossible option? To the best of my recollection trophy grades have never been changed after release 

 

I don't think a multiplier based on rarity is impossible or impractical.  This would all be post release.  Trophy points would stay the same, but the multiplier would change based on the rarity.  Common times 1.  Uncommon times 2.  Rare times 4.  Very rare 8.  Ultra 16.  <1% times 20.  Or whatever the numbers would be. 

 

If you win a 100m race at the Olympics or a 100m race against cripples, there's a huge difference in skill needed.  In trophy hunting, this distinction is non existent when a plat in "hold the button for 3 mins" holds the same value as a plat in Diablo 2. 

[Jeanolt]

I just wanna be part of this thread before Stevie or Beyond close it.

[MidnightDragon]

I'm really surprised this is still here. Thought the lid would've been put on it by now.

[MonaSaxPayne]

4 minutes ago, kinnyman said:

 

I don't think a multiplier based on rarity is impossible or impractical.  This would all be post release.  Trophy points would stay the same, but the multiplier would change based on the rarity.  Common times 1.  Uncommon times 2.  Rare times 4.  Very rare 8.  Ultra 16.  <1% times 20.  Or whatever the numbers would be.

so in this weird scenario.. a game with a 98% plat rarity changes to a bronze trophy instead? 
 

Or are u referring to a whole other metric entirely? Like how psn profiles currently displays your overall completion percentage?

[djb5f]

8 minutes ago, kinnyman said:

 

I don't think a multiplier based on rarity is impossible or impractical.  This would all be post release.  Trophy points would stay the same, but the multiplier would change based on the rarity.  Common times 1.  Uncommon times 2.  Rare times 4.  Very rare 8.  Ultra 16.  <1% times 20.  Or whatever the numbers would be. 

 

If you win a 100m race at the Olympics or a 100m race against cripples, there's a huge difference in skill needed.  In trophy hunting, this distinction is non existent when a plat in "hold the button for 3 mins" holds the same value as a plat in Diablo 2. 

This is how the rarity leaderboard works on psntrophyleaders (but the scale is much steeper)

[kinnyman]

Just now, MonaSaxPayne said:

so in this weird scenario.. a game with a 98% plat rarity changes to a bronze trophy instead? 
 

Or are u referring to a whole other metric entirely? Like how psn profiles currently displays your overall completion percentage?

 

The trophy values don't change.  A 98% rarity would still be worth whatever it is.  Uncommon would multiply that value by 2.  Rare would multiply that value by 4.  And so on.  Your reply just brought up something I didn't consider, which is all these EZ games are mostly gold trophies, so there's an issue there. lol

4 minutes ago, djb5f said:

This is how the rarity leaderboard works on psntrophyleaders (but the scale is much steeper)

 

Thanks, I'll have to check that out.

[Ashande]

2 hours ago, kinnyman said:

The trophy system has been fucked from the start.  Not all trophies are created equal, yet they are worth the same amount of points.  For example, I’m playing Hotline Miami 2 hard mode right now.  It’s a pain in the ass.  It’s gonna take me weeks to beat this because it’s frustrating me to the point I want to cut kick the kitchen table legs off so I have to walk away at a certain point.  Oh and in before some asshole shows up to say how easy it was, and they beat it with their left foot while clipping toenails on their right one.  Anyway, this is all for a gold trophy.  A gold trophy in an easier game is worth the same amount whether it’s Pig D, Virginia, Zippy’s balls or whatever.  It’s a flaw in the system, and these easy plats expose that flaw and also profit from it.

 

Let’s say SONY comes out and says no more hold the button for a plat game.  Ok, now what?  I guess we’re back to hating these one-level release games that are technically games because there is a win/loss condition, but they can be platted in 15 mins.  So SONY dumps them too….goddamn walking simulators next.  Gone.  Ok visuals novels next….where does it end?

 

Until a trophy system comes out that accounts for difficulty, rarity, time involved, etc….the leader board will always be led by the best ratio of the amount of trophies per time spent gaming. 

 

16 minutes ago, kinnyman said:

 

You can't. The points per trophy would need to be continuously adjusted via a multiplier based on rarity as more people play and get or don't get the trophy. 

 

Are you suggesting these changes to reflect on PSN itself, only on PSNP, or both? There’s problems with it no matter what, but the biggest hurdle I see is (if you expect it to calculate that way for PSN, which is implied since your issue seems to be that your Hotline Miami 2 gold shouldn’t be compared to a gold earned in Virginia; if I’m wrong, correct me) the amount of back-end bookkeeping that would need to be added to PSN to make it work; doesn’t seem like a good cost vs. result enterprise.

 

Then there’s the ever-present subjectivity of difficulty. You noted yourself, it’s likely someone beat - or claims to have beaten - Hotline Miami 2 on hard with their foot while clipping toenails, but you think it’s hard. I thought Beach Mode in Shantae: Half-Genie Hero was torture. Every time a new Dark Souls-esque game comes out, you have people screaming bloody murder about how unfair they are and it needs to be toned down. Meanwhile, you have the toenail clipper, a gent who speedran and 100%ed Beach Mode without being hit, and the 44% of people who have the Elden Ring Platinum. Who decides how “difficult” it is, and what that’s worth? What objective criteria are involved?

 

Time involvement is also typically subjective, plus would be unfairly weighted in situations where the trophy requirement is just a measure of time, not “Do X” but X takes Y amout of time. Yomawari: Night Alone’s “Long Night” trophy requires you to play for 50 hours; should it thus be worth more than other trophies, even though I almost guarantee most got it by rubberbanding their Vita and walking away?

 

Adjusting the value continually also doesn’t account for sudden popularity influxes or the jump in achievers when a guide or patch is released. “Hard Pass” from The Quarry might be a good example; it was glitching out for most people, so had a very low rarity. Then a patch came out, now the trophy is working as expected, and it became less rare. Does that mean people who earned it pre-patch get to “keep” the points as they were at the the time they got it, or is their score lowered as more people get it? Do we need to add another variable to the equation, where the point at which you achieved it matters?

 

And after all that, the system that would result is still manipulatable. With judicious selection of games (pick anything from PS+ that wasn’t a triple A blockbuster or painfully easy, or go rummaging around in the free to play or PSVR sections, or pick up games that are primarily multiplayer focused but still have campaigns or collectibles) or stacks, you can be rolling in Ultra Rares that aren’t that hard. It might take a little more effort, but still very doable.

 

Lastly, I’ll note that no matter what scale you use, be it four rarities like trophies or 1000 points like Xbox achievements or “arbitrary points with no minimum, maximum or cap” like Steam achievements, it’s always going to boil down to subjectivity and leave open the option for trolling. Bullet Witch has an Achievement worth 1 Gamerscore… for beating the hardest difficulty. I busted my ass to do it back in the day. Not because I cared about the 1 point (though I did, because I hate when my Gamerscore doesn’t end in 0 or 5 ?) but to say “there, I did it, I beat you, game.” It was probably one of the hardest Achievements I earned. But I got more points for “pressing start” on The Simpsons. Irritating? A little. But it is what it is.

[CookiestMonsterr]

Did you forget about these games you just spam x the exact same thing as this game nothing as changed this is not the first 

[kinnyman]

24 minutes ago, Ashande said:

 

Are you suggesting these changes to reflect on PSN itself, only on PSNP, or both? There’s problems with it no matter what, but the biggest hurdle I see is (if you expect it to calculate that way for PSN, which is implied since your issue seems to be that your Hotline Miami 2 gold shouldn’t be compared to a gold earned in Virginia; if I’m wrong, correct me) the amount of back-end bookkeeping that would need to be added to PSN to make it work; doesn’t seem like a good cost vs. result enterprise.

 

Both.  And yes, the multiplier would constantly adjust based on the rarity so if you had an ultra-rare trophy, and it became very rare a week later, your multiplier and therefore points would decrease based on that.  All I see it as is a multiplier attached to rarity.  It would remain current and not depend on the rarity when you achieved it.  Then the program does the work and adjusts the trophy points (numbers) accordingly and re-ranks everyone once you sync to the network or once a day or whenever.  I don't see the cost issue involved.  I have to plead ignorance when it comes to computer programming; so maybe there's something I'm missing? 

 

On the rest of your points, I agree.  Difficulty + time to plat will never be agreed upon by all.  How many guides here have a comment from someone saying "WTF, this game's a 10 difficulty" or "4...come on, this game's so easy"  lol  So maybe a tiered system for difficulty?  Very easy,, easy, moderate, hard, very hard.  Or just easy medium hard.    These have their own multipliers too?   I'm brainstorming here, and there will never be an infallible method that makes everyone happy.  But at the same time, I don't see how if my dog lays on the controller at the right angle, he can plat the fishing bear in a boat game, and that's worth the same as a plat in Trials Rising. 

 

FWIW, I appreciate you taking the time to write all that and your points were well received.

[DaivRules]

4 minutes ago, kinnyman said:

Then the program does the work and adjusts the trophy points (numbers) accordingly and re-ranks everyone once you sync to the network or once a day or whenever.  I don't see the cost issue involved.  I have to plead ignorance when it comes to computer programming; so maybe there's something I'm missing? 

 

With the number of records for the members here (5+ million) evaluations to calculate each trophies rarity value, then apply that to each trophy for every member, then rank them for a leaderboard, you're looking at around maybe hundred dollars per day of server workload. $3,000/month roughly. All the other functions the site is also doing would be adding cost on top of that estimate.
 

[Infected Elite]

Everyone acting as if these games coming out are causing them to slowly die or something cause they dont like something. 

 

So i don't like skateboarding, should i start making threads about how it ruins my enjoyment? no. i let skaters be skaters. Its just not for me.

 

These games can stay, they just arent for me either. 

 

Dont let it bother you. Childish I swear 

1 hour ago, MidnightDragon said:

I'm really surprised this is still here. Thought the lid would've been put on it by now.

 

Yeah same. But i guess people wanna bitch about it still like its gonna magically prevent these from being made and released.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Infected Elite

[WildZubatAppears]

19 minutes ago, Infected Elite said:

So i don't like skateboarding, should i start making threads about how it ruins my enjoyment? no. i let skaters be skaters. Its just not for me.

The correct analogy here would be skateboarders complaining about something that has a negative impact on skateboarding itself and an even larger negative impact on the action sport industry as a whole.

Edited August 8, 2022 by WildZubatAppears

[Smashero]

Really? :/

Hm... By the game's description... Maybe it will be actually some kind of "happening" or good trolling?
We will see...

Edited August 8, 2022 by Smashero

[WildZubatAppears]

I'm so happy about this news. Kudos to the developpers of this game.

 

I'm glad it is getting picked up by so many mainstream video game outlets. Not just in this community anymore. Sony won't be able to ignore it anymore. Their PR teams have already started including these media articles into their weekly reports as we speak.

 

Reading the comments is also interesting because it shows that non trophy hunters have started noticing the multiplication of shovelware polluting the PSN store.

[Colin_Raleigh]

4 hours ago, Smashero said:

You forgot about R3/L3, limited edition for TP and who knows! Maybe even OPTIONS button as well!

Then USE VOICE COMMAND FOR TROPHIES.

 

Also MOVES have their special own buttons... AIM controller...  So many possibilities out there!

 

And don't forget all the region stacks too! ?

[mega-tallica]

2 minutes ago, WildZubatAppears said:

The correct analogy here would be skateboarders complaining about something that has a negative impact on skateboarding itself and an even larger negative impact on the action sport industry as a whole.

 

The negative impact is the negative reaction of the people that refuse to accept it and downright hate on it and come up with outrageous reasons to justify why these games shouldn't even be allowed to exist. That's literally the only negative impact these games have. If it weren't for all the trophy hunters whining because their inflated egos are bruised yet again over such a non-issue then these games could harmlessly exist with no controversy whatsoever as it should be I think.

[Colin_Raleigh]

I just had a terrible thought, what if Press X For Trophies is gaming's next Attacking Zegeta? ?

[DaivRules]

32 minutes ago, WildZubatAppears said:

Sony won't be able to ignore it anymore.

 

Watch Sony prove you wrong. 
 

Edited August 8, 2022 by DaivRules

[kinnyman]

1 hour ago, DaivRules said:

With the number of records for the members here (5+ million) evaluations to calculate each trophies rarity value, then apply that to each trophy for every member, then rank them for a leaderboard, you're looking at around maybe hundred dollars per day of server workload. $3,000/month roughly. All the other functions the site is also doing would be adding cost on top of that estimate.

 

Well, so much for that idea  lol  Thanks for the info, didn't realize it was that costly.

[Sn1per666999]

1 hour ago, Infected Elite said:

Everyone acting as if these games coming out are causing them to slowly die or something cause they dont like something. 

 

So i don't like skateboarding, should i start making threads about how it ruins my enjoyment? no. i let skaters be skaters. Its just not for me.

 

These games can stay, they just arent for me either. 

 

Dont let it bother you. Childish I swear 

 

Yeah same. But i guess people wanna bitch about it still like its gonna magically prevent these from being made and released.

I don't care about the trophies. I care about there being so many of these "games" that are clogging up this site and the PS Store. I just searched New Games on the PS Store to see what has released in the past few days/week and 90% of it is this type of garbage. I'm just tired of having to wade through all this shovelware to find actual games.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Sn1per666999

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, Sn1per666999 said:

I don't care about the trophies. I care about there being so many of these "games" that are clogging up this site and the PS Store. I just searched New Games on the PS Store to see what has released in the past few days/week and 90% of it is this type of garbage.

come on now.

 

 I don’t like these games any more than you do… but “clogging up” suggests they are actually preventing other, better games from getting on the store.

 

That just isn’t happening - and the moment it did, it would be news in the gaming media.
 

They’re not taking places (or customers) away from real games - and Sony isn’t featuring them in any of their “spotlight” sections, or their deals or anything. 

 

These things are annoying, for sure…

…but they aren’t prohibitively debilitating.

[Sn1per666999]

10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

come on now.

 

 I don’t like these games any more than you do… but “clogging up” suggests they are actually preventing other, better games from getting on the store.

 

That just isn’t happening - and the moment it did, it would be news in the gaming media.
 

They’re not taking places (or customers) away from real games - and Sony isn’t featuring them in any of their “spotlight” sections, or their deals or anything. 

 

These things are annoying, for sure…

…but they aren’t prohibitively debilitating.

Right. I used the wrong word. I don't blame the people buying the games or the devs. It's on Sony for allowing it to get this bad.

[Infected Elite]

4 minutes ago, Sn1per666999 said:

Right. I used the wrong word. I don't blame the people buying the games or the devs. It's on Sony for allowing it to get this bad.

 

Ok AJ

30 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

Watch Sony prove you wrong. 
 

 

on Playstationlifestyle  they had an article about this press X game. Even if some people dont like them, they're still very popular among trophy hunters.

 

Its an endless back and forth. amazingly this thread isnt closed yet.

 

What people do with their money is up to them. Let the games stay. People need to just accept it as the new norm

 

40 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

If it weren't for all the trophy hunters whining because their inflated egos are bruised yet again over such a non-issue then these games could harmlessly exist with no controversy whatsoever as it should be I think.

 

Thank you! That's exactly it. Too many people here stroke their ego thinking their a big shot. 

 

Some with 98-100%  i think are probably no lifers who are so outcast from society they refuse to step outside lol.

There are some nice people here though.