Trophy Spam Issue

[Wild-Arms-R]

1 hour ago, theSpirae said:

I consider Truetrophies already way superior to this stagnating joke at this point.

True trophies is an actual ghost town(form wise)but the way they track points and do rarities is far superior.

If only the ui was better then we maybe wouldn’t be have these discussions. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Wild-Arms-R

[dmland12]

4 hours ago, theSpirae said:

I consider Truetrophies already way superior to this stagnating joke at this point.

 

One interesting thing about Truetrophies is that they actually have a leaderboard with all of the spam and very easy games removed.  They've had it for about a year, but I don't think many people know about it.

 

Maybe there could be a race to see which site will remove these games from their main leaderboard first?

[mrmivo]

3 hours ago, dmland12 said:

One interesting thing about Truetrophies is that they actually have a leaderboard with all of the spam and very easy games removed

What’s that leaderboard called?

[MMDE]

8 hours ago, mrmivo said:

What’s that leaderboard called?

 

Exactly, that's the story of TT. ?

 

I can know they have some feature, used it before, multiple times, and then just not be able to find it anymore, at least not before I've spent 30+ mins on it. Then there's all I don't know, and never will find. Also, they don't show exact second of when a trophy was earned for some strange reason, at least not as I could see.

Edited October 22, 2022 by MMDE

[steel6burgh]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:39 AM, DrBloodmoney said:

don't necessarily disagree that they are two distinct and separate hobbies - "Trophy Collecting", and "Trophy Hunting" - however, the issue is that no one on the "Trophy Collecting" side ever created a website to cater to those folks.

They just all gravitated to the pre-existing "Trophy Hunting" sites. That was fine to a point - there has always been different groups who value different elements of the hobby within that "Trophy Hunting" collective - but at the point where the original intent of the site risks being completely subsumed by the new, minority aspect of the hobby, simply due to a massive disparity in the visibility of their side, then the site itself has to either:

Very well thought out statement!  Great way to look at things.

On 10/21/2022 at 0:16 PM, DeepEyes7 said:

f you dont agree with someone else point of view, you are an elitist, welcome to the club.

There is a lot of that going on in the world today  if you don't agree with this group of people you are 'this" or "that", usually something not good

[bosstristan]

Glad to see PSNP is giving this major issue the attention it deserves.

 

Now the next step is to hide shovelwares in players' profiles and readjusting stats accordingly.

Edited October 23, 2022 by bosstristan

[stork77]

Not interested in the LB, so I guess just take this as an outsider perspective - I have no dog in this fight.

 

Evaluating the suggestions:

I find it contradictory to think these "games" shouldn't be allowed, but still allowing one stack.  Conceptually it would make more sense to remove all stacks of a game rather than all but one.  The suggestion to ban certain developers/games makes way more sense to me, under the premise that they aren't games.

 

If you insist on the Rarity cutoff (which I think is a bad idea), 80% is too broad, and will remove valid games.  For all their trophy list faults, Ratalaika games are fun and 80% will kybosh some good ones.  But it just goes to show that the definition of shovelware isn't as agreed-upon as pretended, as there's multiple people just in this thread urging RL games be removed too (and one person mentioned POWG).  I'm old enough to remember when kids games and Terminator Salvation were stains on your profile, just to show how the snobbishness has always been around.

 

Because ultimately the problem is having a quantity leaderboard itself.  Or at least, caring about it SO MUCH that you'll change what you play to chase it and get toxic about what other people play.  All the leaderboard measures is quantity.  And all that's based on is time, money (buying quick games), and efficiency (playing games quickly or playing quick games).  Having piles of time to play video games (or more accurately, earning trophies) isn't exactly something to be proud of.  People have always been gaming the system, it's just absurdly easy now instead of importing Japanese VN's.  At least rarity (and yes, rarity /= difficulty) requires some skill/dedication.  Speed running takes skill, practice, and planning, not that I care for either of these personally, but I can at least see the merit in them.  The main leaderboard?  Don't see it, especially if one warps (not "forced") one's gaming choices for it. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by stork77
typo

[sweeping-lamp3]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:49 PM, dmland12 said:

 

One interesting thing about Truetrophies is that they actually have a leaderboard with all of the spam and very easy games removed.  They've had it for about a year, but I don't think many people know about it.

 

Maybe there could be a race to see which site will remove these games from their main leaderboard first?

I was browsing their discord right now and saw this question and answer:

 

Is this the leaderboard you are referring to? 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by sweeping-lamp3

[GUDGER666]

38 minutes ago, sweeping-lamp3 said:

I was browsing their discord right now and saw this question and answer:

 

Is this the leaderboard you are referring to? 

 

Problem with that site is the same problem this site has, it's riddles with cheats but worse. 

[TrophyChief]

9 hours ago, bosstristan said:

Glad to see PSNP is giving this major issue the attention it deserves.

 

Now the next step is to hide shovelwares in players' profiles and readjusting stats accordingly.

Sorry bud, don’t fucking touch my profile. I play any and all games for my leisure and fun. I choose and the choice should remain with me on what I want to show on my profile or not as a Premium member. As long as someone plays and completes games legitimately then no hiding should be required. Just ignore profiles that don’t meet “your” standards.

[ChenZheCHN]

9 hours ago, bosstristan said:

Glad to see PSNP is giving this major issue the attention it deserves.

 

Now the next step is to hide shovelwares in players' profiles and readjusting stats accordingly.

 

No, that’s going to far. Legit games, legit trophies. Hiding them like treating a cheater? No way.

 

BTW, I think it’s already going too far for the site to hide shovelware on the front page. It is probably not a good idea to decide which games are shovelware subjectively.

 

Maybe it is a good idea to have a score adjusted by rarity, but hiding games (like PSNProfiles is doing now on the front page) or adjusting shovelware’s score to completely 0 is just going too far.

Edited October 24, 2022 by ChenZheCHN

[Groudon199]

5 hours ago, TrophyChief said:

Sorry bud, don’t fucking touch my profile. I play any and all games for my leisure and fun. I choose and the choice should remain with me on what I want to show on my profile or not as a Premium member. As long as someone plays and completes games legitimately then no hiding should be required. Just ignore profiles that don’t meet “your” standards.

Then maybe you can answer the question I haven't really gotten any answers for.

Is there anything you like about the "Stroke the [Animal]", "The Jumping [Food]", and "The [Noun] [Letter]" games themselves that would lead you to recommend them to a person who has zero interest in trophies?

For example, Jack N' Jill DX is a half-decent 2D platformer that's worth a play if you have nothing else to do for a couple hours. Can you say anything similar about the games labeled "shovelware"?

[MMDE]

5 hours ago, ChenZheCHN said:

 

No, that’s going to far. Legit games, legit trophies. Hiding them like treating a cheater? No way.

 

BTW, I think it’s already going too far for the site to hide shovelware on the front page. It is probably not a good idea to decide which games are shovelware subjectively.

 

Maybe it is a good idea to have a score adjusted by rarity, but hiding games (like PSNProfiles is doing now on the front page) or adjusting shovelware’s score to completely 0 is just going too far.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't want to hide them either, I would just want the leaderboard to not count common stacks and recognize asset swaps as stacks. In other words, you can play your The Jumping Food game, and it would count on the leaderboard, but if you played like 600 of them (yes, there is about 600 of them) it would still only count once. I would prefer if you played something like Uncharted 1 on PS3 and PS4, that it counts both. Nothing subjective about it if you base it on let's say somewhere between 50 and 90% rarity. I suggested 80% as some kind of sweetspot that is hard to abuse and filters out much of the issue.

 

5 hours ago, TrophyChief said:

Sorry bud, don’t fucking touch my profile. I play any and all games for my leisure and fun. I choose and the choice should remain with me on what I want to show on my profile or not as a Premium member. As long as someone plays and completes games legitimately then no hiding should be required. Just ignore profiles that don’t meet “your” standards.

 

What I suggest wouldn't touch your profile, it would only touch your leaderboard score.

Edited October 24, 2022 by MMDE

[ChenZheCHN]

3 hours ago, MMDE said:

You can play your The Jumping Food game, ..., if you played like 600 of them (yes, there is about 600 of them) it would still only count once. I would prefer if you played something like Uncharted 1 on PS3 and PS4, that it counts both.

 

I saw some trophy sites counting duplicate games only once, but counting all different The Jumping Food games as one, while counting identical games like Uncharted 1 (PS3) and Uncharted 1 (PS4) as two, is making things complicated. In this way, it’s hard to draw a line about what are count as one and what are not.

A simpler and more objective approach, like counting games with the same name as one, would be much easier to manage. Even just doing so could significantly reduce 200 Jumping Foods to about 30 to 40, which is good enough, and there is no subjectivity.

 

3 hours ago, MMDE said:

Nothing subjective about it if you base it on let's say somewhere between 50 and 90% rarity. I suggested 80% as some kind of sweetspot that is hard to abuse and filters out much of the issue.

 

I wonder that would filter out a lot of Japanese visual novels, which are usually quite high-priced and sometimes of high-quality. Examples:

 

https://psnprofiles.com/games?publisher=14847-entergram

https://psnprofiles.com/series/833-ai-kiss

 

I know that people were using those visual novels as boosters before shovelware was available, but it doesn’t mean that those games should be treated like shovelware. If you are going to filter games out simply based on rarity, I am worried that it might impact too many.

 

I think a rarity-based adjusted score might be better, as long as you don’t adjust 80%-perfection games to zero score like they are filtered out, but that’s just what I think.

[bosstristan]

10 hours ago, TrophyChief said:

Sorry bud, don’t fucking touch my profile. I play any and all games for my leisure and fun. I choose and the choice should remain with me on what I want to show on my profile or not as a Premium member. As long as someone plays and completes games legitimately then no hiding should be required. Just ignore profiles that don’t meet “your” standards.

 

Any script will be able to do that ( @HusKy  could easily do that I think) 

@HusKy

Sorry but you are on a a public community, so If someone decides to filter your games, they absolutely can. That's by the way why you have buttons such as "show PS4 games only or "Show not completed games only".

This feature would just be the logical continuation of these features, which add greatly to this website, and would help it be #1.

10 hours ago, ChenZheCHN said:

 

No, that’s going to far. Legit games, legit trophies. Hiding them like treating a cheater? No way.

 

BTW, I think it’s already going too far for the site to hide shovelware on the front page. It is probably not a good idea to decide which games are shovelware subjectively.

 

Maybe it is a good idea to have a score adjusted by rarity, but hiding games (like PSNProfiles is doing now on the front page) or adjusting shovelware’s score to completely 0 is just going too far.

It would be the same feature as we have now on the game list.

Anyone would have the ability to toggle on and off that feature, it'd be a great addition to the website ?

Edited October 24, 2022 by bosstristan

[karpathoulas667]

Τhe solution is easy. Not easy to implement, but one that keeps everyone satisfied. Next to world rank and country rank add another one that calculates the rarity of the trophies, without removing the currently used leaderboards. Some basic rules would be to count each trophy once (stacks are not counted, even in different platforms), etc. This way, users that are playing shovelware will have the current leaderboards, and users that are not playing shovelware will have their own. For example, when i visit a profile, I m interested only in the ultra rare trophy count and  the ratio rare-to-common trophies. So, this way, no one is harmed, everyone can keep doing their thing the way they want and players doing their trophy hunting (the "old" way) will have their metric to be compared.

[MonaSaxPayne]

56 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

Sorry but you are on a a public community, so If someone decides to filter your games, they absolutely can. That's by the way why you have buttons such as "show PS4 games only or "Show not completed games only".

This feature would just be the logical continuation of these features, which add greatly to this website, and would help it be #1.

 

has it ever occurred to u that the primary function of some of those already existing toggle features were to help the profile owner filter their own games (for whatever personal reasons), and not for other ppl to go nitpicking at it for ways to ridicule them?

 

this argument that its a public forum so u have to expect other people to look through your stuff is a valid argument (after all, if u feel that u want your profile to be a secret u can just hide it from on psn). but the flip side is also true. its reasonable to expect that u can use a public space in comfort without having to be harassed either 

[bosstristan]

Just now, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

has it ever occurred to u that the primary function of some of those already existing toggle features were to help the profile owner filter their own games (for whatever personal reasons), and not for other ppl to go nitpicking at it for ways to ridicule them?

 

this argument that its a public forum so u have to expect other people to look through your stuff is a valid argument (after all, if u feel that u want your profile to be a secret u can just hide it from on psn). but the flip side is also true. its reasonable to expect that u can use a public space in comfort without having to be harassed either 

 

Why are you talking about "ridiculing" and "harassing"?

It would be a simple feature that would help users browse your games depending on what they are looking for.

Looking for PS4 games ? You have that feature.

Looking for 100% games ? You have that feature?

Looking for games that aren't shovelwares, as already implemented in the game list? That feature would be the logical continuation.

 

@Sly Ripper has already developed that amazing feature, 90% of the work is done (and congrats to him!), implementing it on players profiles would be a breeze now. I'm sure they will implement it in the near future ?

[HusKy]

1 hour ago, bosstristan said:

Any script will be able to do that ( @HusKy  could easily do that I think)

 

Not easily. At all.

 

Pro tip: stop caring about other people's profiles and leaderboards. Point based leaderboard as a concept has been broken beyond repair thanks to Sony. It's gone.

[djb5f]

3 minutes ago, HusKy said:

 

Not easily. At all.

 

Pro tip: stop caring about other people's profiles and leaderboards. Point based leaderboard as a concept has been broken beyond repair thanks to Sony. It's gone.

it was always an exercise in futility, always about 1) who had the most time (and fewest other hobbies/interests) and 2) money (or willingness to spend their disposable income)

 

if anything, the EZPZ craze has made many see them light which is a good thing.

[MonaSaxPayne]

48 minutes ago, HusKy said:

Pro tip: stop caring about other people's profiles and leaderboards.

I wish I had alt accounts so I could upvote this some more

57 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

Why are you talking about "ridiculing" and "harassing"?

It would be a simple feature that would help users browse your games depending on what they are looking for.

 

why u so concerned about browsing other ppl's games? 

[bosstristan]

Just now, MonaSaxPayne said:

I wish I had alt accounts so I could upvote this some more

 

why u so concerned about browsing other ppl's games? 

 

Why are you so concerned as to preventing more features from being added to the website? Probably because of the same reason: we are on a community website, with public profiles. Any profile contributes to the content of the website, and can be visited/browsed by other users. If a user wants to search for some specific content, they should be able to, why prevent them from it?

You want that feature no to be added, I would like it to be added.

Edited October 24, 2022 by bosstristan

[Bumperklever]

2 minutes ago, DeadDexterous said:

 

You are not asking for additional features.

You are asking for an overhaul.

There's a big difference.

 

He is asking for the elimination of an endangered trophy hunting species.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Bumperklever

[bosstristan]

Just now, DeadDexterous said:

 

You are not asking for additional features.

You are asking for an overhaul.

There's a big difference.

How can adding a toggle button be an overhaul?

If you don't like it, you don't use it, as simple as that. I won't replace nor mean other features will have to be removed.

[Mellenthin]

15 minutes ago, Bumperklever said:

 

He is asking for the elimination of an endangered trophy hunting species.

 

The poor bastards have had enough already; put them to the torch and be done with it already.?