The Difficulty Archives

[Baker]

There are 2 more recommendations I would like to make from my favorite genre: JRPG’s. 

 

First up is Final Fantasy IX.

 

We all know why the rarity is high in this game. Everyone uses a script to get the Hail To The King trophy for 1000 jumps in the jump rope minigame. But doing it legit I definitely can see a 8/10 difficulty for this game. That was hard to do! And since you have Hollow Knight on the list too this might be something to consider.

 

Second is a more niche game: Pier Solar And The Great Architects.
 

It also has a minigame that requires 12+ minutes of full attention (actually it’s 6 minutes x2). It’s called Eternal Slip and also took me many hours to beat. Personally I would rank it a 7/10 but maybe others find it a 8/10 or higher. I don’t know many who played this game but let me tag @Joe Dubz and see what he thinks about it.

[Joe Dubz]

13 minutes ago, Baker said:

There are 2 more recommendations I would like to make from my favorite genre: JRPG’s. 

 

First up is Final Fantasy IX.

 

We all know why the rarity is high in this game. Everyone uses a script to get the Hail To The King trophy for 1000 jumps in the jump rope minigame. But doing it legit I definitely can see a 8/10 difficulty for this game. That was hard to do! And since you have Hollow Knight on the list too this might be something to consider.

I agree here... Never actually played ffIX but I am quite familiar and know that jump rope minigame is the plat killer! If it's as tough as ppl say, and since something like Hollow Knight which can also be favorably glitched/cheated/etc is included, I 2nd this notion. 

 

15 minutes ago, Baker said:

Second is a more niche game: Pier Solar And The Great Architects.
 

It also has a minigame that requires 12+ minutes of full attention (actually it’s 6 minutes x2). It’s called Eternal Slip and also took me many hours to beat. Personally I would rank it a 7/10 but maybe others find it a 8/10 or higher. I don’t know many who played this game but let me tag @Joe Dubz and see what he thinks about it.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment!! Great game but Eternal Slip... Ugh that shit is tough and I would give it an 8 on that alone! 

[Laxus]

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/18604-thems-fightin-herds

 

I would recommend Thems Fightin Herds. It is a fighting game with challenging combo trials. For inexperienced players this game might be a 8 or maybe 9. I would go with 8 here.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Laxus-0

[PunisherXD]

Just making another small update to catch up with suggestions:

• Mirror's Edge - Rated a 7/10 as this seems like a good rating for it due to some rating it a 6 and others an 8
• Koihime Enbu - added back after some confusion in the difference between it and RRR, my bad 😅
• Tony Hawk 1&2 + Devil May Cry - Moved to discussion for now, will most likely move to the removed section.
• Final Fantasy IX - Added to the list at an 8/10 with a note that this is only if done scriptless.
• Pier Solar and the Great Architects - Added to list at an 8/10 for now, if multiple people think it's higher/lower we will move it accordingly.
• Thems Fighting Herds - Moved over to the main list at an 8/10. If more people agree on it being harder we'll change it accordingly

Some of the changes Enzo already did without me realising, so thanks for that ❤️

 

Just a reminder that the spreadsheet does have 2 extra sections, where you can see what games are removed for being overrated, unobtainable etc. and another section for games that we never found any solid information of. so if you know of any of those games or have done them, it'd be appreciated if you could give us your thoughts on it. Or if you know of a game that's supposedly hard but there isn't enough info on it, feel free to suggest it and it will be moved to the discussion section until further notice.

[ness1216]

fat princess' gladiate mode is quite tough and is a 100% killer for most

[distressedjazz]

I would like to comment that the base game of Mirrors Edge is probably below an 8 but if you include the DLC it should be an 8. This is on the grounds of the DLC time trials being generally harder than the base game time trials and that the DLC asks you to get 3 stars on the majority of trials while the base game only really asks you to get 2 stars on a decent portion of them and some you can skip entirely. 

[Reinachii-]

Bloodborne is an 8. The dlc probably puts it to a 9.5

[Iker_01]

7 minutes ago, Reinachii- said:

Bloodborne is an 8. The dlc probably puts it to a 9.5

I mean, if you don't care about the thread or the list, that's fine, but just trolling and posting games that you're well aware are not 8 or 9.5 just wastes everyone's time.

[Wild-Arms-R]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:02 PM, Baker said:

There are 2 more recommendations I would like to make from my favorite genre: JRPG’s. 

 

First up is Final Fantasy IX.

 

We all know why the rarity is high in this game. Everyone uses a script to get the Hail To The King trophy for 1000 jumps in the jump rope minigame. But doing it legit I definitely can see a 8/10 difficulty for this game. That was hard to do! And since you have Hollow Knight on the list too this might be something to consider.

 

Second is a more niche game: Pier Solar And The Great Architects.
 

It also has a minigame that requires 12+ minutes of full attention (actually it’s 6 minutes x2). It’s called Eternal Slip and also took me many hours to beat. Personally I would rank it a 7/10 but maybe others find it a 8/10 or higher. I don’t know many who played this game but let me tag @Joe Dubz and see what he thinks about it.

If we're rating Pier Solar's difficulty based on doing the Tim's Way trophy legit(without using ng+) and the Eternal Shit(sorry I mean slip lol) mini game I'd say it's more or less a 8/10 for the average trophy hunter. Other wise if we're counting just enternal slip then probably a 6 or possibly a 7. 

 

As for FF9 I'd say doing the entire game legit like without any cheats or outside devices then Final Fantasy 9 is a easy 8/10 Low Level Game speed run and 1000 jumps in a row without falling is kinda nasty considering the genue here. 

Most JRPG's do not require things like that for platinum.

Also I did both of these trophies when I was a kid on the PS1 version so I'm basing my knowledge on that.😁

 

19 minutes ago, Wild-Arms-R said:

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Wild-Arms-R

[Reinachii-]

2 hours ago, Iker_01 said:

I mean, if you don't care about the thread or the list, that's fine, but just trolling and posting games that you're well aware are not 8 or 9.5 just wastes everyone's time.

I care very much. Guide has bloodborne as an 8. I thought so, too. Sorry I am not pro gamer like you...

[Wild-Arms-R]

6 minutes ago, Reinachii- said:

I care very much. Guide has bloodborne as an 8. I thought so, too. Sorry I am not pro gamer like you...

I wouldn't personally rate Bloodborne as a 8/10. There are just too many games that are objectively harder. But i'd say to a more maybe casual trophy hunter Bloodborne could be reated a 6/10. It really depends how much you get carried by summons or if you skip the chalice daungon grind. 

Also not trying to flex just wanting to give a fair rating here. Difficulty is subjective afterall.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Wild-Arms-R

[LegendExeter]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:35 AM, PunisherXD2006 said:

Just making another small update to catch up with suggestions:

 

• Final Fantasy IX - Added to the list at an 8/10 with a note that this is only if done scriptless. 

 

 

 

I think you guys are doing a great job so far.  However this is my issue with this.  I played that FFIX 20 years ago and never got that 1000 jumps and gave up on that.  Prior to trophies of course.  Yet you are including it based on people not using a "script".

 

So if a script is anything similar to a glitch or taking advantage of the game through in game methods or loopholes the developers left, then why aren't other games considered as higher difficulty "without the glitch".  Or a game like Wolfenstein II, what if someone doesn't watch YouTube videos for assistance is it still a 6 or 7 of 10?

 

I think you should have 2 top tier lists of hard games, Hard Games 1, and Hard Games 2 whatever you want to title them.  Hard Games 1 are just hard as hell, Hard Games 2 are very hard as well but exploitable to lower the difficulty.  It's the same question feasibly here, if they don't use the script/glitch/video assistance is the game an 8 or higher difficulty.

 

Or your other choice is to simply remove FFIX as the script makes it a lot easier game.

 

On 9/23/2023 at 5:10 AM, ness1216 said:

fat princess' gladiate mode is quite tough and is a 100% killer for most

 

That trophy is absolutely brutal.  💯 

Edited September 24, 2023 by LegendExeter

[Hitman_Spinksy1]

1 hour ago, Reinachii- said:

I care very much. Guide has bloodborne as an 8. I thought so, too. Sorry I am not pro gamer like you...

Everyone knows you're being sarcastic when you have 1.8k UR's with games like Ultra Street Fighter IV and I Am Bread. 

[Mellenthin]

I went over the list again and hope I can help to improve it further.🙂

 

To begin with, AvP, like Existential says, doesn't belong on the list. As with SW and HRR, at most it's a 7. Between unlimited retries and static spawns, I feel it has developed an undeserved reputation over the years. Whatever you decide upon, get that 10 out of my face.😉

 

Capcom Arcade Cabinet, while not easy, has the same benefit as with AvP regarding Gun.Smoke, i.e. unlimited retries. All you need to accomplish is to reach the next checkpoint, and you're set. I had far more trouble initially with Commando, but after watching QuantumMercury showing how it's done on YT by simply bee lining it instead of stopping every other second, that was basically it. It's up to debate of course, but I suggest for it to be dropped a point.

 

Dead Space 2 should be dropped entirely. I started it out on zealot playing blind without much issues and you have unlimited retries regardless. Hard to the Core is basically medium difficulty and would perhaps be another discussion if it would be set to zealot difficulty - again, it's in the 7 range.

 

Frostpunk might be a hot topic for some in the sense whether you got through it by learning by your own or if you used video guides. Personally, I don't take feelings into account and try to judge as objectively as possible. Thus, if you can follow a guide, it's definitely not a 9. Sure, it's still demanding - which is why I had to resort to drinking every other day - but it doesn't deserve a 9.

 

I personally think Söldner-X deserves an 8, but no higher since you're given up to 15 continuous IIRC. Other people might have another opinion so I'll just leave it there. Its sequel was multitudes easier anyhow so don't even think of adding it.🙂

 

R.U.S.E. could perhaps deserve an 8. Again, as with DS2, I did the SP blind at release without much issues which is partly why I don't think it should be any higher - if it should be on the list at all.

 

Vermintide 2 is a mixed bag for me, but one thing is for sure: it doesn't qualify as a 10, seeing my group completed it in season 1 being very uneven and also when Sienna was supremely powerful. While I'm aware that later DLC characters are very good and that there occurred changes to later seasons, ultimately people have to chime in on that as I have no experience of later seasons and setups. As it stands, in my opinion, it's certainly not a 10 but rather a 9 at most.

 

XCOM 2 ought to be dropped a point. It's generally not relevant to mention what the difficulty would be if you do this or that in regards to what would be unnecessarily harder, so rather rate it an 8 with at least an added point if not savescumming.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Mellenthin

[Baker]

6 hours ago, Wild-Arms-R said:

If we're rating Pier Solar's difficulty based on doing the Tim's Way trophy legit(without using ng+) and the Eternal Shit(sorry I mean slip lol) mini game I'd say it's more or less a 8/10 for the average trophy hunter. Other wise if we're counting just enternal slip then probably a 6 or possibly a 7. 

 

 

Well. I delved into the pst.org game difficulty ratings and the legend ThanatosNinja2, who eats difficult games for breakfast, rated it a 9/10. And that was even the PS3 version. The PS4 version is supposed to be harder because of the difference of the controllers. I think an 8/10 is more than justifying. And this is just based on Eternal Slip.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Baker

[Laxus]

4 hours ago, LegendExeter said:

 

I think you guys are doing a great job so far.  However this is my issue with this.  I played that FFIX 20 years ago and never got that 1000 jumps and gave up on that.  Prior to trophies of course.  Yet you are including it based on people not using a "script".

 

So if a script is anything similar to a glitch or taking advantage of the game through in game methods or loopholes the developers left, then why aren't other games considered as higher difficulty "without the glitch".  Or a game like Wolfenstein II, what if someone doesn't watch YouTube videos for assistance is it still a 6 or 7 of 10?

 

I think you should have 2 top tier lists of hard games, Hard Games 1, and Hard Games 2 whatever you want to title them.  Hard Games 1 are just hard as hell, Hard Games 2 are very hard as well but exploitable to lower the difficulty.  It's the same question feasibly here, if they don't use the script/glitch/video assistance is the game an 8 or higher difficulty.

 

 

What about Koihime Enbu Ryo Rai Rai, how would you categorize this game then? Before the dlc character came out, there was no real method to get the 12100 damage trophy unless you downgraded the game to 1.00 and did either the Kakoton combo (which is not possible anymore in current version) or the Bacho Exploit (Even as a exploit it is hard to do).

 

And no there should not be two list, this does not make any sense. The person who wants to use a glitch can do it and that's it. That is a choice the player makes for himself and not the game telling him to do so.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Angus1343]

If I had a suggestion it's that every game needing a sidenote to explain its difficulty (without save scumming, boosting, glitches scripts etc.) should be removed unless the difficulty is still warranted. Why is it that games such as wolfenstein 2 and devil may cry 5 are being judged by using all exploits available and were therefore removed, whereas games like Atari flashback and Celeste still exist on the list lol.

There is simply too many heavily exploited games to consider them all in a list like this, and I think its more useful to know which games are actually difficult even when using the easiest methods possible to obtain the trophies.

Also, I can vouch for Amplitude being included on the list. Being a rhythm noob, this game was pretty insane for me. I would rate it a 9/10 personally, and its hard for me to imagine it being anything less than an 8 for someone without a lot of experience in the genre.

[Wild-Arms-R]

26 minutes ago, Baker said:

Well. I delved into the pst.org game difficulty ratings and the legend ThanatosNinja2, who eats difficult games for breakfast, rated it a 9/10. And that was even the PS3 version. The PS4 version is supposed to be harder because of the difference of the controllers. I think an 8/10 is more than justifying. And this is just based on Eternal Slip.

I'm cool with that man, I just don't personnelly see that mini game alone constituting for a 8/10. Again this is just my opinion btw.

It's a mini game that is quite challenging, it's like 8min of complete focus were one slip up(ha!)can send you all the way back. But if you get halfway, you can retry how many times you want till you finsh the 2nd half(and imo the 2 half is alot easier, probably due to most being right headed?) so with all that said it just seems more like a 7 or 6.

DMC5 to me equal = 8/10, same with Wolf 2. 

That's just the way my monkey brain sees it Idk

[sepheroithisgod]

Great list idea, but I'm mixed on the criteria. I think it's a bit unfair to online/co-op games to consider carries/boosting as such a strong factor. Maybe it's just my own experience, but something like Black Ops 3 is definitely an 8/10 at the very least as realistic mode was a great challenge to overcome. There are also games like Overwatch where it's definitely a 9/10 of you don't boost, but if you do boost that's definitely not the case.

 

Games to Add:

White Knight Chronicles: With the servers now offline, you are forced to solo everything, which is not only quite difficult but also makes it take over 1000 hours to get the plat at this point.

 

Shatter (PS3): It doesn't have a platinum, but it is definitely one of the toughest 100% I have ever earned because of The Boss trophy.

 

Saga Scarlette Grace Ambitions: I think the super bosses that the game offers are actually some of the toughest I've seen in turn-based games.

 

 

Games to remove:

Metal Gear Solid 4: The only difficult trophy is the Big Boss Extreme run, and with a guide, I was able to do it with over an hour of time to spare. I think it's like a 5/10 at best.

 

Days Gone Challenge Mode: Not sure how this got on the list but it's not that hard, probably another 5/10.

 

Discussion Games:

Yakuza 3: I know the pool mini-game was a pain, but it's not an 8/10. Everything else is pretty much a 3/10. (personally found 0 and Kiwami to be the hardest to plat)

 

Crash 4: I stand by the guide estimate of 9/10 due to the platinum relics.

 

 

 

[Laxus]

The problem with this difficulty list is that most of the time things get subjective really fast. I bet that, in this world, there is this one idiot who believes that dark souls or bloodborne is the hardest game ever made...... And when you say it is not, they either insult you or call you a ,and i quote, "No lifer".

 

This becomes more problematic if we start to consider exploits in hard games. So there must be line where we consider them in difficulty or not. Exploits i would say should be considered but glitches not.... Glitches are things where the player gets out of his way to change the difficulty for earning a hard trophy in said game. Jak 2 precursor orb glitch would be best example i know of...

 

With exploits it is just you knowing how the game works and that is it.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Hitman_Spinksy1]

I agree with @sepheroithisgod that Crash 4 is a 9/10 or at least a minimum 8/10. It requires so many different skill sets from using different characters, Cortex just being a pain in the arse to use, the time trials, the perfect relics; and the game just doesn't let up for a moment. At least with other Crash games you could blitz through a few levels before coming to a roadblock but not this time.

The time trials require speed and precision with some levels being a couple mins long and the perfect relics require taking your time, not dying whilst getting all the boxes. Completely opposite skills and the perfect relics actually took me personally longer and were more frustrating. The only exploit I know off is triple spinning and jumping with the Akano mask which doesn't help on most levels and only on some time trials.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Hitman_Spinksy1

[bdias10]

26 minutes ago, Hitman_Spinksy1 said:

I agree with @sepheroithisgod that Crash 4 is a 9/10 or at least a minimum 8/10. It requires so many different skill sets from using different characters, Cortex just being a pain in the arse to use, the time trials, the perfect relics; and the game just doesn't let up for a moment. At least with other Crash games you could blitz through a few levels before coming to a roadblock but not this time.

The time trials require speed and precision with some levels being a couple mins long and the perfect relics require taking your time, not dying whilst getting all the boxes. Completely opposite skills and the perfect relics actually took me personally longer and were more frustrating. The only exploit I know off is triple spinning and jumping with the Akano mask which doesn't help on most levels and only on some time trials.

Seriusly Crash 4 a 7/10 it is really really off, just seeing a monster like Angus1343 taking more than 100h says it enough. Also I don't agree with Downwell being a 7 as well, even ThanatosNinja2 rated a 9 back in the day and VirtualNight gave a 8

[Baker]

37 minutes ago, bdias10 said:

Seriusly Crash 4 a 7/10 it is really really off, just seeing a monster like Angus1343 taking more than 100h says it enough. 

Well yeah. The game takes a lot of hours. But is it actually hard? No.

 

Something like SMB is 10x more difficult. And even that game is overrated in terms of difficulty.

[bdias10]

4 minutes ago, Baker said:

Well yeah. The game takes a lot of hours. But is it actually hard? No.

 

Something like SMB is 10x more difficult. And even that game is overrated in terms of difficulty.

Dude, i am not the only one saying that here lol. Maybe you should ask others, all my friends who did this rated at least a 8, but like someone said above it is all subjective at the end of the day

Edited September 24, 2023 by bdias10

[Baker]

Just now, bdias10 said:

Dude, i am not the only saying that here lol. Maybe you should ask others, all my friends who did this rated at least a 8, but like someone said above it is all subjective at the end of the day

Absolutely true. I’m not against it being on the list, although I think it shouldn’t be. I think it’s like a 6/10 at best.
 

But I like the discussions about it and if the majority (that actually know what difficult games are) thinks it should be that’s fine.