The Difficulty Archives

[JohnCenaSong-]

6 hours ago, cckerberos said:

If we're dealing with a 10 point scale, surely a 6 is only slightly above average in difficulty rather than hard?

I guess so but I suppose it's just my personal phrasing and mentality with outside the average.

 

Broadly I tend to say anything below that average would be in the umbrella of 'easy' and likewise above average being under the umbrella of 'hard' even if 4 and 6 are only slightly dipping their toes into those respective labels.

 

7 hours ago, cckerberos said:

it only means that a game is in the top 30% for difficulty if the whole scale is going to be used.

I'd probably say it should be a bit less than the 30% region as I'd maybe expect a bit of a bell curve for its distribution (well, if we exclude shovelware that is, that would create a big spike in the 1/10 )

[Prometheous101]

 

10 hours ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

I truly don't think Beat Saber is an 8/10. I'd more accurately put it at 6 or 7/10.

TBH, me and pretty much anyone that did it would agree.

DLC songs and the 1 saber mode and other modes made it easier. 

And I did pretty much all base songs full combo cause I was bored. 

I will discuss it with others that did the plat and update once a decision has been made.

[LancashireLad87]

Games that need further discussion

 

Devil May Cry 1 HD: Definitely not an 8/10 for an average player providing they learn how to grenade roll with the grenade launcher, by doing so you can prevent any enemy on Dante Must Die difficulty from using their devil trigger. As long as you save enough untouchables for the final battle against Mundus you can cheese him by standing in the lava and going ham on him.

 

Devil May Cry 5: Significantly harder than DMC1 HD, yes you can cheese with Dante using the Dr Faust Hat but Nero and V have to be played competently to S rank DMD and Hell and Hell difficulty. I personally found S Ranking V's mission 4 and 5 on DMD/HAH to be the hardest to overcome for the "Worthy of Legend" trophy. 

 

Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 Remake: Having never played a skateboarding game before I wasn't sure if I was up to the challenge. Despite completing the game within 24 hours of in-game playtime, I think an 8/10 for the average gamer is valid. 

 

Games that didn't make it

 

 Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed: Not sure what "estimates" your using regarding the games difficulty. As an avid kart racing fan, I can wholeheartedly say that this game deserves an 8/10. Completing expert time trials which leaves very little room for error for the AAA license deserves an 8/10 because you cannot cheese the game, it's completely skill dependent. 

[sepheroithisgod]

Honestly, reading all of the back-and-forths on this thread is making me think there must be a better way of doing this. Everyone is coming from a different perspective, or we are realistically getting one of two people's opinion on the difficulty which is far too small of a sample size to definitively get a ranking from.

 

Since this site lacks a way to poll people who exclusively have the 100% or the platinum, I'm thinking a better way would be creating a Discord where you could invite players who actually have done the game in question to vote and discuss it in their own separate channel. Might even be able to create a bot that could scan a profile to detect what games and % they have on their profile. (I'm not a Discord expert, but I've seen some really impressive ones that seem to track people very well in certain games) That way players are automatically given access to the channels they can discuss.

 

I also think the criteria needs to be ironed out here. I agree with the sentiment that a lot of games are being brushed off, and in some cases, by players who even say they haven't played it, or have only done a small portion of it. This really doesn't help the list in a meaningful way.

[PunisherXD]

22 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Honestly, reading all of the back-and-forths on this thread is making me think there must be a better way of doing this. Everyone is coming from a different perspective, or we are realistically getting one of two people's opinion on the difficulty which is far too small of a sample size to definitively get a ranking from.

 

Since this site lacks a way to poll people who exclusively have the 100% or the platinum, I'm thinking a better way would be creating a Discord where you could invite players who actually have done the game in question to vote and discuss it in their own separate channel. Might even be able to create a bot that could scan a profile to detect what games and % they have on their profile. (I'm not a Discord expert, but I've seen some really impressive ones that seem to track people very well in certain games) That way players are automatically given access to the channels they can discuss.

 

I also think the criteria needs to be ironed out here. I agree with the sentiment that a lot of games are being brushed off, and in some cases, by players who even say they haven't played it, or have only done a small portion of it. This really doesn't help the list in a meaningful way.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a better way myself unless we were to make a poll on every hard game's forum, but that would lead to a lot more trouble than help due to trolls rating and well, spamming the forums lmao.

Making a discord where people can discuss whatever hard game sounds amazing on paper, but takes a ridiculous amount of effort to set up the way you thought of it due to the need of a discord bot similar to Cowbear. So yeah, really good idea and us editors discussed it before, but it would take a lot of time and effort to set up, probably more than it is worth. I've said this before, but at the end of the day the whole point of the archives is to have a compiled list of every hard game that is potentially an 8/10 or higher, and so the difficulty themselves isn't too important, because games that didn't make it would be on the removed section anyway.

I'm curious as to which games specifically were affected by people's estimations without said person playing the game, as most of the suggestions we have taken into consideration seemed to come with good reasoning, and those that didn't we have ignored 🤔
 

Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm currently taking a look at the recent suggestions and will make a note of them later, so at the rate you guys are posting expect another update log soon

Edited September 26, 2023 by PunisherXD2006

[Gommes_]

I just wanna underline the difficulty of the WipEout Omega Collection and its implementation on the list. I've platinumed HD, 2048 and the Omega Collection. In the Omega Collection you have to do the majority of stuff from HD plus updated harder stuff from 2048. The hardest trophies from HD were Beat Zico and Elite Campaign Legend which are still in the latest game. The AI is not toned down in the main campaign and Beat Zico is as hard as ever. On top of that is a second Zico time which is harder than the one on the Vita plus new zone events which are another platinum breaker.

 

THE ONLY REASON people say that HD it is easier is prior knowledge of the franchise. If you've played HD, the Omega Collection seems easier, cause you are familiar with the tracks, times, ships etc. The Omega Collection just can't be easier when it has more stuff you have to do. People forget how hard certain games are if you tackle them for the first time. Over at playstationtrophies.org I even saw people claiming Super Street Fighter 4 was easier for them than the Vanilla version. Again, this only comes down to prior knowledge. The Omega Collection is not easier than HD and both games are at least an 8. They are still really tough games (especially compared to other games like the THPS 1+2 remake which is on the list and only long imo.)

Edited September 26, 2023 by Gommes_

[LegendExeter]

While this is not accurate due to sports games that most people never finish, wrestling games, long grind games,  or unpopular games that don't ever get enough players, I am aware that the results are skewed.  However I do still like the simplicity of the completion rate based on a scale.  To me it balances out a "majority" of the time.  Not always though, as in the image I show, Cuphead as a 5, is absurd to me.  Then again, maybe other players are just better at it than me, or didn't hate it as much.  Tails of Iron is a frustrating little title, with a moderately challenging platinum, but an extraordinarily difficult DLC for the 100%. 

 

While results are skewed, I sometimes think...hey people if you think that NBA 2K24 or Madden 24 is skewed due to it being a sports game, then why don't more people play it, get the platinum so it doesn't end up being another ultra rare.

 

 

[LegendExeter]

20 hours ago, CNaai said:

Burn Zombie Burn is impossible to 100%, it has unnobtainable trophies, BUT if you get all the other trophies PSNTL will count it as a 100%, ( it will appear like " 86%(100%) " or something like that, if i'm not mistaking.

Just saying it for the completists, because in PSNTL it counts for a 100% but i'm not sure about PSNP

 

I am aware of this.  I just mentioned it because even when the 100% was available its still an 8 or 9 for sure.

[DeepEyes7]

Glad that you guys added Arcana Hearts 3 Love Max, still I wouldnt have taken out the vanilla one, its true the online could be boosted and Parace fight is a lot more forgiving here, but the difficult trophies here are the character ones... Especially this annoying one...

 

 

Dont know what @Laxus-0 @Copanele think about this one...

 

P.S. Even "Atatatatatatatatatata!" wasn't easy even with a turbo controller...

Edited September 26, 2023 by DeepEyes7

[Copanele]

13 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Glad that you guys added Arcana Hearts 3 Love Max, still I wouldnt have taken out the vanilla one, its true the online could be boosted and Parace fight is a lot more forgiving here, but the difficult trophies here are the character ones... Especially this annoying one...

 

 

Dont know what @Laxus-0 @Copanele think about this one...

 

P.S. Even "Atatatatatatatatatata!" wasn't easy even with a turbo controller...

Speaking about Arcana Heart 3 only, from experience the OG one (Arcana Heart 3) is way harder than the Love Max one. Arcana Heart 3 Love Max is a crazy grindfest with one nasty fight Paracelsia (you can pause abuse her if you really want to).

In comparison, I think a newcomer would want to strangle me if I recommended Arcana Heart 3 to him and didn't warn him about the "On The Streets and So Forth", "Flawless Victory" and even that "Atatatatatata" madness that not even my turbo controller could keep up with 😂

 

Sooo yeah I agree with @DeepEyes7 about AH3  

[DeepEyes7]

5 minutes ago, Copanele said:

Speaking about Arcana Heart 3 only, from experience the OG one (Arcana Heart 3) is way harder than the Love Max one. Arcana Heart 3 Love Max is a crazy grindfest with one nasty fight Paracelsia (you can pause abuse her if you really want to).

In comparison, I think a newcomer would want to strangle me if I recommended Arcana Heart 3 to him and didn't warn him about the "On The Streets and So Forth", "Flawless Victory" and even that "Atatatatatata" madness that not even my turbo controller could keep up with 😂

 

Sooo yeah I agree with @DeepEyes7 about AH3  

 

So I wasnt the only one which turbo controller didnt keep up with Atatatatatatatata!, what kind of speed does they want? Haha

[Copanele]

2 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

 

So I wasnt the only one which turbo controller didnt keep up with Atatatatatatatata!, what kind of speed does they want? Haha

Turboed multiple buttons and still was awful. 

It impressed me this much that I made the trophy a milestone 😂

[Thedah]

I was the one who suggested to Enzo to take off Arcana Heart 3 and put in Love MAX lol. My opinions on fighting games probably cannot be trusted as I am super biased on their difficulties.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Thedah

[Laxus]

47 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Glad that you guys added Arcana Hearts 3 Love Max, still I wouldnt have taken out the vanilla one, its true the online could be boosted and Parace fight is a lot more forgiving here, but the difficult trophies here are the character ones... Especially this annoying one...

 

 

Dont know what @Laxus-0 @Copanele think about this one...

 

P.S. Even "Atatatatatatatatatata!" wasn't easy even with a turbo controller...

I think that neither Arcana Heart 3 or Love Max should be in here. Love Max is just a pure grind with parace as your only obstacle with endless try, which makes the difficulty obsolete..... As for Arcana Heart 3, the character specific trophies aren't that hard to be honest and i am saying this with Arcana Heart 3 being my very first fighting game i ever did.

 

The only Arcsystem games i would ever let in here would be Persona 4 Arena, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (only because of adachi), Battlefantasia, Blazblue: Continuum Shift and BlazBlue: Chronophantasma Extend.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Copanele]

5 minutes ago, Thedah said:

I was the one who suggested to Enzo to take off Arcana Heart 3 and put in Love MAX lol. My opinions on fighting games probably cannot be trusted as I am super biased on their difficulties.

If I may guess (i think we had a similar experience?) ... Love MAX platinum was a miserable chore, while Arcana Heart 3 was just a fun time with some nice challenge along the way  

My reasoning was purely from the perspective of a newcomer who never ever played a fighting game, found a copy of AH3 and had the mood to start this loli fighter 😂

 

 

By the way...since I didn't follow this thread...are you guys keeping only the hardest fighting games or all fighting games? Maybe I misunderstood the topic completely.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Copanele

[Laxus]

7 minutes ago, Copanele said:

If I may guess (i think we had a similar experience?) ... Love MAX platinum was a miserable chore, while Arcana Heart 3 was just a fun time with some nice challenge along the way  

My reasoning was purely from the perspective of a newcomer who never ever played a fighting game, found a copy of AH3 and had the mood to start this loli fighter 😂

 

 

By the way...since I didn't follow this thread...are you guys keeping only the hardest fighting games or all fighting games? Maybe I misunderstood the topic completely.

This is a thread for all difficulty games, including hard fighting games. Everything rated with a 8 or higher goes in here.

 

Edit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AZ7d7L6pp3R4YyYvdyN9QC2E7wJhWDhdR84D-zu-pjY/edit

Edited September 26, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Thedah]

10 minutes ago, Copanele said:

If I may guess (i think we had a similar experience?) ... Love MAX platinum was a miserable chore, while Arcana Heart 3 was just a fun time with some nice challenge along the way  

My reasoning was purely from the perspective of a newcomer who never ever played a fighting game, found a copy of AH3 and had the mood to start this loli fighter 😂

 

 

By the way...since I didn't follow this thread...are you guys keeping only the hardest fighting games or all fighting games? Maybe I misunderstood the topic completely.

Yeah, Love max was a chore in figuring out some of the gallery unlocks. The online grind I figured out how to automate lol. As for AH3 OG I didn't find anything challenging at all but it was a fun game to go through.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to both being on the list as 8/10 for newcomers as I can see how each has it's own thing that's hard if someone has never picked up a fighting game before. Although if Blazblue/P4AU is listed as a 8/10 on the sheet, then AH3 should not be on there as there's nothing harder in it than those games.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Thedah

[DeepEyes7]

9 minutes ago, Thedah said:

I was the one who suggested to Enzo to take off Arcana Heart 3 and put in Love MAX lol. My opinions on fighting games probably cannot be trusted as I am super biased on their difficulties.

 

5 minutes ago, Laxus-0 said:

I think that neither Arcana Heart 3 or Love Max should be in here. Love Max is just a pure grind with parace as your only obstacle with endless try, which makes the difficulty obsolete..... As for Arcana Heart 3, the character specific trophies aren't that hard to be honest and i am saying this with Arcana Heart 3 being my very first fighting game i ever did.

 

The only Arcsystem games i would ever let in here would be Persona 4 Arena, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (only because of adachi), Battlefantasia, Blazblue: Continuum Shift and BlazBlue: Chronophantasma Extend.

 

 

 

 

It's fine, I wouldn't say AH3 is a 10/10 but maybe could cut at 8/10 since I have seen some friends which some character trophies of AH3 prevented them from getting the plat...

 

7 minutes ago, Copanele said:

By the way...since I didn't follow this thread...are you guys keeping only the hardest fighting games or all fighting games? Maybe I misunderstood the topic completely.

 

Hardest games, not just fighting...

[Copanele]

6 minutes ago, Laxus-0 said:

This is a thread for all difficulty games, including hard fighting games. Everything rated with a 8 or higher goes in here.

 

4 minutes ago, Thedah said:

Yeah, Love max was a chore in figuring out some of the gallery unlocks. The online grind I figured out how to automate lol. As for AH3 OG I didn't find anything challenging at all but it was a fun game to go through.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to both being on the list as 8/10 for newcomers as I can see how each has it's own thing that's hard if someone has never picked up a fighting game before.

 

4 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

 

Hardest games, not just fighting...

Yup ok clear for me now. Yeah, an 8/10 would be reasonable.

[Laxus]

10 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

It's fine, I wouldn't say AH3 is a 10/10 but maybe could cut at 8/10 since I have seen some friends which some character trophies of AH3 prevented them from getting the plat...

 

Even with that information i still would not rate it a 8. It is really hard to say since i have to consider people who are more casual or MORE casual about the fighting game genre. Tell those friend of yours that they should try it again and get those trophies done lol.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Laxus-0

[MD_91]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:43 AM, MD_91 said:

I think Catherine is massively overrated at 9/10, you can just follow a guide for everything except the 4 Babel stages and they are made much easier by using 2 controllers, would rate it at a 6 or 7 at most

 

Interested to see other opinions on this since it's still on the list

[DeepEyes7]

5 minutes ago, Laxus-0 said:

 

Even with that information i still would not rate it a 8. It is really hard to say since i have to consider people who are more casual or MORE casual about the fighting game genre. Tell those friend of yours that they should try it again and get the trophies done lol.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you consider BB:CPEX to be in the list, dont remember any hard trophy from that one, I did even found BB:CP harder because I had to do the annoying Highlander Assault with all chars (Especially the Vita version where some chars like Relius runs at 5 FPS)

Edited September 26, 2023 by DeepEyes7

[Laxus]

Just now, DeepEyes7 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you consider BB:CPEX to be in the list, dont remember any hard trophy from that one, I did even found BB:CP harder because I had to do the annoying Highlander Assault with all chars (Especially the Vita version where some chars like Relius runs at 5 FPS)

Because you need to do 50% of all trials including all trials from one character. Tager and Susanoo are the easiest ones but on a casual level i can see other people struggeling more with this trophy than with Highlander Assault.

[Lum]

12 minutes ago, MD_91 said:

 

Interested to see other opinions on this since it's still on the list

I could see Catherine being at least an 8 for someone who don’t play puzzle games as much, myself included. Having the platinum myself, I remembered Babel being pretty challenging, even with 2 controllers and having used the pause exploit. I could even see this as being a 10 if the solutions for the extra Rapunzel stages weren’t available to find on YouTube.

[Baker]

17 hours ago, Mellenthin said:

 

A 6 is indeed not hard. It first start at 7 and then an 8 would be very hard. A 9 is extremely hard and lastly a 10 is inconceivably difficult - or whatever adjective that fits better.

I like this. This is how I rate difficulty too. 6=tough. 7=hard. 8=very hard. 9=f*cking hard. 10=near impossible.

 

That’s why it always annoys me when games that are not too hard get rated a 9/10. (Crash Bandicoot 4)

 

But ofcourse everyone uses a different rating system.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Baker