The Difficulty Archives

[CelestialRequiem]

It's really hard for me to see Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and Vanquish as high as they are, and The Wonderful 101 not being on there at all.

[FilmFanatic]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is absolutely not an 8/10. Not sure if you’ve been using PST or not (where you can vote for the difficulty) but 61.54% of people rate it either a 4, 5 or 6. Nightmare difficulty is only on the harder side right at the very start of the game. Once you reach Skyhold and can unlock specialisations, it’s much easier.

[acasser]

I haven't played very many games on this list, but the ones I have?  I think the disclaimer I've started putting in some of the guides that I've written applies here.  The short version of which goes something like "Tedious and Time Consuming and Endlessly Repetitive do not mean the same thing as Difficult."

 

(Yes, I *am* a bit of a difficulty ratings snob.  My standard is much higher than most other people's standard.)

 

Cross Edge is listed as 10/10, which it most assuredly is not.  You *do* need to have a pretty detailed guide in front of you to hold your hand and walk you through all the stuff that's necessary for the "true ending" and the like, telling you exactly where to go and when to go there and what to do.  And knocking out certain parts of the postgame does get very repetitive as you work your way through various parts of things.  But the "most difficult" part of the latter is having the patience and fortitude to push through all that work, and the former isn't so very different (in a bird's eye sense) from all the other games that have true endings with esoteric requirements that have to be searched out.

 

Deception IV: Blood Ties is listed as 8/10.  I guess that's not too obscene, but again I believe this is a difficulty rating inflated by the quantity of tedious tasks that the platinum trophy requires.  It's not an easy game by any means -- at least, that's what I believe, although to be fair it's not like I've played very many games of that paradigm and certainly not very many of the "action" variety as opposed to a "turn based" version.

 

Disgaea IV is listed as 8/10.  See my comments below about Mugen Souls; the same general principle applies here.

 

Mugen Souls is listed as 9/10.  This almost certainly has to be a reflection of how grindy the postgame and a handful of trophies gets.  Like a lot of other NISA titles, this is one where the postgame and a handful of trophies takes a lot longer than the main game; it's not so much about things being difficult as it is a need to invest a huge amount of time to grind one's way up the "virtuous spiral" of power as to reach the point where the final challenges can be met and surpassed.  Those challenges are nasty -- if not impossible -- if one blindly storms into them without preparing; on the other hand, putting in the grind time the developers probably had in mind trivializes this.  But it's not like you're facing new foes with deadly new tricks; you're simply facing something whose raw stats dwarf everything but otherwise isn't much different from previosu foes.

 

Touhou Gensou Wanderer Reloaded is also listed as 9/10.  Again, I interpret this as "grindy" over difficult.  Even if it isn't quite the same as NISA titles and the postgame does throw some more "strategically difficult" stuff at you, it's still also a case where a lot of this difficulty is artificial and overcome by grinding and understanding certain other in-game systems as much as (or more than) anything else.

 

....

 

But these are my opinions on the matter.  That if these are "difficult", then so too is having an office job where you sit in a cubicle doing mindless tasks for a paycheck 30-40 hours per week.

[Mellenthin]

Sadly, I think you're not doing a very good job so far. The list is all over the place and misinformed in many instances, which makes me wonder where you got the numbers from.

 

Some of the games you probably got right, such as Jamestown+ and R-Type Final 2. On the other hand, Shadow Warrior and Hard Reset Redux is incredibly inaccurate and there are plenty more as already pointed out by others.

 

The list definitely needs some serious work before being publicly released.🙂

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mellenthin

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Vanquish is not an 8/10, please get that game off of this list

 

Also, Wuppo is not an 8/10, seriously. Both of the games I mentioned here are 7s probably

Edited September 22, 2023 by Deadly_Ha_Ha

[Niilismo]

If you're including DLC, I'd definitely add the Dunwall City Trials DLC for Dishonored. It has quite a few demanding trophies, most notably Daredevil and By My Hand Alone.

 

Also, I don't think I agree with the 7/10 rating for Wipeout HD. It's not the hardest game out there, but it's certainly not easy. Elite Campaign Legend is quite a pain, and to my knowledge there are no exploits to make it easier like there are for some of the other trophies.

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

So let me speak to Adventure Time: Explore the Dungeon Because I DON'T KNOW!

 

The game itself is extremely easy. There is simply nothing in the game that would raise it past a 4/10 in and of itself. The problem is that the game is so heinously buggy; it is the least optimized game I have every played in my life and it is a waking nightmare from start to finish filled with crashes and heartbreak. The culmination of pain is the run of the Nightosphere which requires the game to stay in operation for about 3 straight hours of very fast, very focused gameplay. I cannot tell you the kind of anxiety that was caused over so many hours of failing due to crashes, and the run that succeeded was the single most anxious I have ever been while playing a game. Every loading screen was agonizing as you waited, counting the seconds and sweating harder and harder until the game either carried on or you were fucked. 

 

I love Adventure Time more than most people but I knew almost instantly upon starting that game that I had fucked up. I don't know what you would award the difficulty based on my experience, but I wouldn't call it "difficult" per se; it's just that the game requires a lot of luck to work

[dertswa687o]

Here are my thoughts on a few games on the list:

 

3D Dot Game Heroes is not hard at all, at least on the NA version. One of the minigames is apparently much harder on the EU version since they never got a patch that made the required times easier. I would put the NA version at a 5-6/10 but hopefully someone else can chime in on just how hard the minigame was on the EU version. I don't think I beat the EU times but I also didn't try to since the minigame was annoying.

 

Amplitude is a weird one. I play a lot of Clone Hero (I have 3,500 FCs) so it was fairly easy for me to pick up. That said, I still struggled to clear Digital Paralysis on Super difficulty. It is very possible to fumble your way through the song though based on how the game actually determines if you fail. I wouldn't put the difficulty much higher than 6/10 for me personally, but for the average person it would be fair for it to be 8/10.

 

Unravel 2 has an overinflated difficulty. The only hard speedrun is Hideaway and nothing about it is technically difficult to execute. It is all a matter of learning and memorizing the level which feels tougher than it is since it's 13 minutes long. I would put it in the 6-7/10 range.

 

Rabi-Ribi, N++, and Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours all are 1 point too high in my opinion, but I can see the arguments in the other way too.

 

I have a copy of Deathsmiles I-II on my shelf and the game radiates such a menacing aura that I think it's a clear 10/10.

[distressedjazz]

Mirror's Edge including DLC would be a good addition to this list

Edit: I didn't realise this was already on the list 

Edited September 22, 2023 by distressedjazz

[MD_91]

2 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

I am Bread, not disagreeing but maybe add a note for doing it glitchless as you did with the likes of Hollow Knight above because there's a glitch in IAB that makes it a lot easier. I believe it's called 'small item flying' or something like that, basically you can play almost as if you're on the moon and fling yourself easily across large areas if you're holding a small item making getting the ranks below an 8/10 for sure.

 

I would probably rate I Am Bread as an 8 even with the glitch, maybe a 7 but can't imagine what it's like trying to do it glitchless.

 

 

I think Catherine is massively overrated at 9/10, you can just follow a guide for everything except the 4 Babel stages and they are made much easier by using 2 controllers, would rate it at a 6 or 7 at most

[distressedjazz]

I'm scared of being slammed for this suggestion but..

Pac-Man Museum (PS3)
I've played the game myself and can vouch for an 8/10 difficulty but according to forums on other sites such as xbox achievements and pst.org many consider the Pac-Attack and Pac & Pal master score requirements hard to reach. 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2462-pac-man-museum/

[disaster500]

Personally I'd add Wolfenstein 2 and DMC5 on the list, and remove Celeste.

 

Even with all the strats and skips that makes specific parts very easy, Wolfenstein 2 still requires a 3-4 hour permadeath run, where a small mistake can end your run in seconds. The combination of the endurance required and how punishing Mein Leben is makes it deserve a place on the list imo, that asks way more of the player than a lot of other games. I found it harder than I am Bread, Crash 4, and Hollow Knight, 3 games on the list that are rated 9/10.

 

"We've been told the game now goes as low as a 6/10" I'm interested in the reasoning for this, that's only slightly harder than games like BioShock Infinite and the Uncharted games. That just sounds ridiculous to me.

 

As for DMC5, personally I also found it harder than Crash 4 which is rated a 9/10 (and yes, I was using Dr. Faust and the exploits), but I had no prior experience with hack 'n' slash games, whereas I'm very good at platformers. It doesn't feel right giving it a 7/10, but that might just be me.

 

Finally, I think Celeste without assist mode is only a 7/10. The only notably difficult parts are the final rooms in levels 7C and 8C, which are hard but definitely don't warrant the plat to be an 8/10 imo. Yet again though, this could just be me being very good at platformers, as especially 7C is very dependant on timing.

 

I like the list overall though, good job on it.

Edited September 22, 2023 by disaster500
added more reasoning

[Enzo]

Would like to thank you all for the suggestions... 

 

Here's what has been changed so far

• Dragon Age Inquisition: Removed
• Yakuza 3: Removed 
• Mugen Souls: Removed
• Disgaea IV: Removed 
• Touhou Genso Wanderer: Removed
• Cross Edge: Removed
• Vanquish: Removed
• 3D Dot Game Heroes: Removed
• Adventure Time: Explore the Dungeon Because I DON'T KNOW!: Removed
• Unravel 2: Removed
• John Wick Hex: Removed
• Deathsmiles I-II: Added 10/10
• Pac-man Museum: Added 8/10
• Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours: Lowered to 9/10
• I am Bread: Lowered to 8/10
• Injustice: God's Among Us: Lowered to 8/10
• Call of Duty Black Ops 4: Added 8/10

Please let me know if you have anything else to add or any notes you would like to be added to a specific game. Also, a reminder to please give specific reasons why a game isn't a certain difficulty. Before making any decisions our goal is to ensure this will be useful for all trophy hunters alike. As many details on why a game is or isn't a certain difficulty is preferred and we greatly appreciate any contribution you all make. Thank you. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Enzo_0684

[Abraniell]

Yeah so this is the problem with threads like this you are never going to get it right simply due to how subjective everything in here truly is just like op said. But anyway I appreciate what you guys are trying to do here at least and the sheet will serve as a mostly accurate guide to hell. Anyway my main problem with it so far is how hypocritical it is in some places.

You cannot have Shadow Warrior sitting in there as an 9/10 when the game has checkpoints between chapters and not have Wolfenstein 2 at least as an 8/10 when you have to beat the entirety of the game in one sitting with skips or not it takes more of a tow on the mind if you fail than just restarting a 40min to an hour chapter on SW. Then you have Raiden 4 in there with an 8/10??? And Windjammers as an 9/10? In both you can pause exploit the differance is that even with the exploits Raiden remains a 10/10 and I can even argue its virtually impossible for the human eye to do without the exploit and Windjammers is like a 3/10 with the exploit and at most a 7/10 without.

Anyway I believe a stronger system or more universal way of determining scores should be implemented for this to work otherwise you are going to have players voicing opinions about scores on a daily basis or asking why the souls or the Sekiros are not in there lol and theres not a way to keep everyone happy.

 

On another note I don't think I saw Outlast 2,Wipeout HD nor Downwell in there and I believe all three should be added as solid 8/10 all for different reasons but just check the guides and look at the forums here to give you an idea. Keep up the good work guys!

[Mellenthin]

1 hour ago, Enzo_0684 said:

Please let me know if you have anything else to add or any notes you would like to be added to a specific game. Also, a reminder to please give specific reasons why a game isn't a certain difficulty. Before making any decisions our goal is to ensure this will be useful for all trophy hunters alike. As many details on why a game is or isn't a certain difficulty is preferred and we greatly appreciate any contribution you all make. Thank you. 

 

In Shadow Warrior it's the simple matter of repeatedly using the horizontal slash attack while dashing around. For every single upgrade you get it becomes easier as you grow more powerful.

 

HRR is basically the same but in that you actually want to use ballistic weapons opposite to SW.

 

I would rate both no higher than a 7.

[PunisherXD]

Just read through the comments I missed whilst sleeping, thank you all for the suggestions! Its really nice to see that the idea behind this forum is working and we're getting some estimates

 

I see others be outraged at the fact that we have quite a few stuff on there that are "overrated". And this is due to what I mentioned in my original post, that we were using guide ratings as a base and are wanting to move to community estimates now. So any ratings that seem messed up we will try to change accordingly as long as we get a numbered rating and a reason alongside it.

 

Thanks again everyone, I'm gonna read through the latest comments again and change the list accordingly when I have time today 

5 hours ago, Mellenthin said:

Sadly, I think you're not doing a very good job so far. The list is all over the place and misinformed in many instances, which makes me wonder where you got the numbers from.

See, most of the work has been done around trophy guides we found online, so like I mentioned before, the list *will* be inaccurate, and hence the making of this post. Hope you understand 🙂

Edited September 22, 2023 by PunisherXD2006

[PunisherXD]

I added some of the games that @Enzo_0684 removed onto the "removed games list" with TBA as the difficulty, as I couldn't see any ratings given to those games. Alongside this we've moved back Wolfenstein 2 and Wipeout HD to the main list, both at an 8/10. Will do more once I get some time again.
Oh and removing Shadow Warrior and putting it as a 7 👀

[Mellenthin]

1 hour ago, PunisherXD2006 said:

See, most of the work has been done around trophy guides we found online, so like I mentioned before, the list *will* be inaccurate, and hence the making of this post. Hope you understand 🙂

 

Of course. Just be aware that some guide authors have a tendency to rate way too high at times. Maybe it's due to something as simple as not understanding how many actually hard games exist and also how to properly compare them with eachother?

 

I don't know, but what's certain is both of those don't qualify for your list. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out soon enough.🙂

[fbdbh]

Inferno Climber: Reborn - Nobody has managed to create a comprehensive guide, even though it seems to be doable. It's a Soulslike/Zeldalike - I'm a veteran FromSoft-player and have trouble beating it. Very punishing (you have to make a new character if you die to pick up your old gear). I can see that it's doable, but I lose motivation. Currently has 1 achiever, people on Steam are having trouble finding some of the chests even with Cheat Engine, but it's probably doable because the secrets in this game "appear" after performing some action, so they might not be accessible by going through walls and other hacks.

 

You added Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous but not Pathfinder: Kingmaker - equally hard.

[Baker]

2 hours ago, PunisherXD2006 said:

Oh and removing Shadow Warrior and putting it as a 7 👀

So even though I said Hard Reset Redux is harder than Shadow Warrior I agree with @Mellenthin here that both games should not be on the list. SW: 6/10. HRR: 7/10. HRR is just a bit harder.

 

Now for some more games I played that I think should not be on the list:

 

Devil May Cry 4:

 

I am absolutely terrible at hack&slash games. And this was not bad at all. The hardest thing to do is beat the Bloody Palace as Trish but you can just use the Roundtrip + Collider combo. Might take a few attempts though. Getting all S Ranks and HAH is also easy with Lady & Trish. You even have holy waters. 7/10 at best although I would give it a 6/10.

 

Metal Gear Solid 4:

 

Just the Big Boss run for this is hard. If you play without any sort of guide. But there are plenty and they are good. So if you can follow a guide this game is just easy.

 

Pix The Cat: 

 

So this maybe a bit weird because I originally thought this game was a 10/10 impossible difficulty. Until I understood what the issue was. I did not have any gaming mode on my Tv (which was very old) and therefore Pix moved too slow. It costed me 30 seconds on a 5 minute run making getting 2 million points (the only hard trophy) literally impossible. After I got a new Tv the difference was night and day and the game went from 10/10 impossible to 6/10. 

 

Trackmania 2020:

 

Now I know I sort of disagree with @Destructor-8 on this and he is an experienced racer. Me, as a racing noob, my second racing game after Trackmania Turbo, thought this was quite easy. Just very time consuming. And ofcourse this game will only become easier over time so it’s better to already remove it.

 

Crash Bandicoot 4:

 

I haven’t even finished the game yet so maybe I shouldn’t post it here. But I have a big dislike for the fact this game is considered soooo hard. (As of now, still need to do 90% of the time trials I would not even rate it a 6/10) A 9/10 difficulty. That is ridiculous. 😂

 

 

And I’m happy to see Wolfenstein II is back on the list. I think that’s well deserved.

 

 

[esstee11]

Thanks for creating a well written and organised list 🙂

I'm surprised there is a lot missing though.. For instance just because it's my favourite game, off top of my head, I am shocked to see even the well known, much loved notorious horror classic:

 

 The Evil Within is not on the list 😱 Guides here say 9/10 difficulty: https://psnprofiles.com/guide/1785-the-evil-within-trophy-guide

Which is accurate, because AKUMU mode is truly brutal.

 

Edit: And I also agree with the other classic horror heavyweight someone mentioned also surprisingly not on the list:

 

Outlast 2. Guide here says 8/10 difficulty: https://psnprofiles.com/guide/6571-outlast-2-trophy-guide

Which is fair, because of INSANE difficulty run, full game no saves permadeath. Brutal. 

 

*Via PS5 times TEW took me 3x longer to plat than O2. I love horror but the struggle was real. Lol.

 

As you 5 guys have been working on it a little while I'm surprised you didnt start with just a simple A-Z PSNP guide search tackling a fifth of the alphabet each to make the search more manageable. Bit time consuming sure but a good place to start to achieve the desired comprehensive list you are aiming for to make sure you haven't missed any 🙂

Might be millions of difficult lesser known game names hiding there in kinda plain sight 😊

 

Anyway good luck and have fun 😁

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by esstee11

[warrervena]

I would add to the list the following games:

 

Max Payne 3 - The shadows Rushed me is by far the hardest challenge in this game, for some people is a 10/10. Unfortunately the online trophies are no longer obtainable, making the plat impossible to get for newcomers.

 

The Crew - Not that hard but very time consuming, also some of the trophies are bugged due to being linked to the online servers.

 

Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 - It depends on how skilled you are. Personally, I like skateboard games and wasnt hard to plat it but to others the Get There trophies are too hard

 

Spelunky - The first Spelunky is really time consuming. The guide shows a 7/10, but in my opinion is way harder than that. The speedrun trophy took me more than 100o tries.

 

Medal of Honor Warfighter - Permadeath runs are a pain in the butt. Online was shut down, making the plat unattainable

 

This list is from what a played and consider hard or higher than 8/10.

 

 

           

                                                                                                     

[No longer here]

What’s up Punisher 💪🏻

 

Ehhhh let’s see maybe:

 

OlliOlli World: I think the guides said 8/10 personally it felt like a 6-7 because I had played the previous ones. The RAD challenges are the hardest trophies in the game.

 

Shadow Warrior 1: Mainly because of that permadeath mode

Downwell: Playing this right now as it is a hard game, personally more like a 7 but it seems people give it a 8 or 9.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mori]

First of all, kudos to you guys for trying to create a list that seems impossible to create the "right way".

 

I think the approach of "DO NOT take prior experience into account." doesn't work in favour of the list though. Every game can be a 10/10 to someone who has no prior experience in a genre or series. I do believe that people who excel and feel comfortable at "their" genre, can give the most accurate difficulty rating. They might put a game on a lower difficulty than most people would agree with, but it also shows that with some dedication, effort and time into the game/genre, it could eventually become easier for them as well.

 

Even then though, it is probably hard to find a good difficulty rating. For example, in 2020 I found Dirt Rally 2.0 to be very hard, I had moments where I genuinely thought I could not do it. Fast forward 1 1/2 years and I completed Assetto Corsa and found it to be easier than DR2.0, meanwhile some say Assetto Corsa is much harder. I am no expert at SIM-Racers but I feel much more comfortable now than when I started DR2.0, so if I did DR2.0 today I'd probably rate it lower than back in the day.

 

 

 

As for the list, there's a couple things I probably would change but one game in particular is quite strange to me. Elder Scrolls Online is not a 10/10 and never will be. It feels like the guide writer or whoever came up with the rating just thought to themselves "yep 500-800 hours, must be 10/10". It is not.

 

ESO has some more challenging stuff like completing Veteran Dungeons and some misc trophies in earlier Veteran Dungeons, and Emperor can seem quite intimidating at first. Mechanics in dungeons are sometimes challenging and can be complicated at first but with a guide at hand and people knowing what to do, its even doable with sub-par equipped people, I speak from experience. Most of the Veteran stuff can be made much easier by grinding Champion Points (levels after the cap of level 50 to increase more stats), getting better gear and have a somewhat competent group with good communication.

I only had trouble with the two solo dungeons, because I played a non-optimal character and I couldn't just melt enemies. Again, easily avoidable by playing a different character.

 

I tried Emperor "legit" in an active campaign and wasted 18 hours a day to still be 2nd or 3rd place and if the below level 50 campaign wasn't a thing, then yes, this could potentially put ESO up higher in the difficulty rating, but all you have to do in below 50 (favourably with a group of friends who can help out) is repairing walls and take over some keeps in a nightshift.

 

There are so many in-game achievements that are much harder to complete than anything the trophy list asks you to do. If veteran trials (12 people dungeons) were a requirement for trophies, we can talk about it again, because these really require some very tight and clear communication and everyone needs to know exactly what their doing, which can't be overcome by just gearing and leveling up. Tri-fectas challenges as trophies would be another huge increase in difficulty, it is hardmode, no death and speed run in one run. Hardmode increases boss HP, adds more mechanics and/or makes existing mechanics more dangerous.

 

Overall I think ESO is just a massive grind, with some 6/10 - 7/10 challenging stuff in the trophy list. I am no expert at the game!

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mori

[Niilismo]

I'm just gonna repeat what I said earlier as it seems to have gone unnoticed:

 

If you're including DLC (which you seem to be, looking at the spreadsheet), I'd definitely add the Dunwall City Trials DLC for Dishonored. It has quite a few demanding trophies, most notably Daredevil and By My Hand Alone. The guide here on PSNP rates it 9/10. My personal rating would be somewhere between 8 and 9.

 

Oh, also, since you moved Wipeout HD back to the main list, shouldn't you also move Omega Collection?