National Football League Thread

[Matto_lsi]

22 hours ago, grimydawg___ said:

@Matto_lsiprior Sundays game, the Browns defense had did something that had not been done in FIFTY years.  They won because of their defense ( well Myles Garrett went nuts again) and got 17 points from turnovers.  If you think their defense is top 10 at best,  you don't watch football 🤷‍♂️

 

So now I don't watch football because I don't agree with you about the Browns defensive ranking? lol  Well, I won't resort to personal attacks, but simply state the facts.

 

Browns Defense:

Yards Allowed: 1st

TDs Allowed: 18th

Sacks: Tied for 11th

1st Downs: 1st

INTs: Tied for second to Last

Forced Fumbles: Tied for 11th

Total Takeaways: Tied for 20th

 

Fumble TDs: Tied for 2nd (with 1)

Int TDs: Tied for Last

Safetys: Tied for Last

 

The NFL officially ranks defenses by yards allowed, which is flawed, and the most arbitrary stat imaginable to rank an overall defense.  They used to rank defenses by points allowed.  I'm not sure when that changed, but it was a far better measuring stick than yards allowed.  I can't even recall another ranking system offhand that uses that stat or even only 1 stat to rank a defense.  Yards allowed almost never correlate to points allowed, otherwise the Browns wouldn't be in the bottom half of the NFL in defensive points allowed.  Yards per game don't matter, points per game do.  Points are what determines if your team wins or not.  And the Browns are two lucky refball calls away from being 2-4.  But with luck they've managed to be 4-2.  That luck won't last.  So far, the Browns haven't allowed a lot of yards, but they do allow a lot of points.  And since they don't rank very high in total takeaways, with a net negative differential, the most influential part of the game where they could score points or set their offense up to score points, isn't as dynamic as more than half the other defenses in the league.  Browns also allowed the fewest first downs, which is a better stat than yards allowed, but still doesn't give a clear picture.  They could allow zero first downs in an entire game, but if each of the other teams plays goes for 80 yards and a TD, it's kind of a moot point.  An extreme example, I know, and I'm not saying that's happened, but gaining a first down by grinding 3-4 yards at a time 3 plays in a row is a lot different than giving up first downs on a single long pass play.  I don't have an easy way to see all the ways the Browns gave up first downs so far this year, but again, based on the number of points they've allowed, it doesn't seem to be the deciding factor.  Also keep in mind the Browns have had their bye week, and their stats include 1 fewer game than most of the NFL, and even with that extra game considered, they STILL rank lower in most categories than many other teams, including points allowed.  For instance, the 49ers have allowed fewer defensive points in 7 games than the Browns have in 6, and there's 5 other teams that can claim the same.

 

Now let's consider who the Browns played and how those games turned out.  They beat the Bengals week 1, who had a terrible start to the season and were only holding themselves back.  They got beat by the Steelers, who are as mediocre as they come.  They beat the Titans, who through 6 games and a bye week have put together the second worst offense in the league, tied for the lowest scoring offense, the 3rd lowest passing yards, and the lowest passing TDs in the league.  Then they got blown apart by the Ravens, who didn't need to rack up arbitrary yardage as they won by nearly 4 TDs.  Then the Niners game, which we all know how that turned out.  Then the Colts game where they gave up 38 points and over 450 yards to a backup QB and an otherwise flailing offense. 

 

If you pull the Niners out of there, most people would say the only tough opponent they had were the Ravens, who handily beat them, and they still lost 2 of those games.  In other words, the Niners game wasn't the rule, it was the exception.  You can claim the Browns defense played up for that game if you want.  But the very next week the Vikings had a better defensive performance against the Niners than the Browns did.  So are the Vikings now the best defense in the league?  I don't think so.  What I do think - based on what I saw when watching football - was a Niners offense struggling in ways they hadn't for the first 5 games of the year.  They struggled against both the Browns and the Vikings.  Doing things, or rather failing to do things they had been doing regularly and routinely.  The thing that stood out was the Niners offensive struggles, and it wasn't because they played an elite defense either week, it was because they are failing to execute.  I don't know what happened, but their struggles will only change if they change them, and they're not dictated by a mediocre defense (Vikings) or slightly above average defense (Browns) either rising to the occasion or having a good showing.  The Niners offense is beating itself, and they won't be able to beat teams like the Seahawks, Jaguars, or Eagles if they keep playing this way.  You can give credit to the Browns defense if you wish, but they are not the best defense in the league.  Let's not forget than many analysts claimed the Cowboys defense was the best in the league after week 4, right before the Niners decimated them.  Both the Browns and the Vikings held the Niners to 17 points while the Niners offense fell apart.  As a fan, that's hard to watch, and its worrisome for the remainder of the season.  Getting beat would have been far preferable as they could have made some adjustments and come back stronger.  An offensive collapse is something else entirely.  I may be wrong about that being the case here (and hope I am), but I've seen plenty of them in the 35 years I've been watching football, and most of the time no one sees it coming until its already happened.  But they always start off the same way, with a prolific offense suddenly falling apart and having no answers for otherwise mundane defenses.  The Niners play the Bengals this weekend.  The Bengals have a below average defense and one of the worst offenses in the league.  The Niners should beat them easily.  I hope they do, but we'll have to wait and see which version of their offense comes to play.  I just hope they make the adjustments we expected them to make 2 weeks ago.

[grimydawg___]

@Matto_lsithe Browns defense has allowed 101 total points, which is barely 16 ppg....  how is that not a top caliber defense?  Cleveland has played everyone in their division, where everyone is above .500.  That's the only division that can say that right now.  I don't expect them to win in Seattle, unless the offense can step up. Cincinnati has won their last games coming from a bye week.  Cincinnati also hasnt been healthy. Cincinnati SHOULDN'T win, but SF ain't healthy.  Stop making mistakes like missing FGs.

Edited October 27, 2023 by grimydawg___

[grimydawg___]

1 hour ago, grimydawg___ said:

@Matto_lsithe Browns defense has allowed 101 total points, which is barely 16 ppg....  how is that not a top caliber defense?  Jim Schwartz's defense doesn't really force turnovers.  You're talking about calls?  There were calls both on both teams on that game.  Blame your sorry ass kicker.  Purdy put SF in a position to have SF win the game.  The Jets got cheated against KC that cost them the game.  Calls screwed over a lot of teams.   Cleveland has played everyone in their division, where everyone is above .500.  That's the only division that can say that right now.  I don't expect them to win in Seattle, unless the offense can step up. Cincinnati has won their last games coming from a bye week.  Cincinnati also hasn't been healthy, but they're getting there. Cincinnati SHOULDN'T win, but SF ain't healthy.  Stop making mistakes like missing FGs and turning the ball over in the red zone.  That cost SF at least six points.

 

[Zio_Sam87]

So, Purdy is on concussion protocol, and seems it happened on the sneak right before the first of two bad INTs... Maybe that's the reason for that throws, maybe not. Not sure if that hit is legal or not, nobody's talking in the league.

Darnold vs rested Cinci? I'm NOT confident about it.

[grimydawg___]

27 minutes ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

So, Purdy is on concussion protocol, and seems it happened on the sneak right before the first of two bad INTs... Maybe that's the reason for that throws, maybe not. Not sure if that hit is legal or not, nobody's talking in the league.

Darnold vs rested Cinci? I'm NOT confident about it.

Cincinnati is also getting healthy.  San Fran just has to stop making stupid mistakes (missed FGs and turnovers in red zone) and Cincinnati still has summer issues protecting Joe.  Also, i want SF to win lol

[grimydawg___]

Cleveland had it smh  Run the football.  The coaching SMH

Edited October 29, 2023 by grimydawg___

[squaresoft4ever7]

Officiating has made the NFL unwatchable, last weeks colts-browns game was horrendous but it was just the tip of the iceberg.  Of course Goodell says "officiating has never been better" that's like saying the economy has never been better 😂

[MidnightDragon]

Chiefs lost today to the Broncos for the first time in many years. The fact Mahomes was sicker than a dog and still playing did zero favors. They should’ve told him he had to sit. It did the team no good. I know Gabbert sucks, but they should’ve at least gave it a go. 
 

8 minutes ago, squaresoft4ever7 said:

Officiating has made the NFL unwatchable, last weeks colts-browns game was horrendous but it was just the tip of the iceberg.  Of course Goodell says "officiating has never been better" that's like saying the economy has never been better 😂

At least you don’t have to hear about Taylor Swift every two seconds!

Edited October 29, 2023 by MidnightDragon

[grimydawg___]

4 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

Chiefs lost today to the Broncos for the first time in many years. The fact Mahomes was sicker than a dog and still playing did zero favors. They should’ve told him he had to sit. It did the team no good. I know Gabbert sucks, but they should’ve at least gave it a go. 
 

At least you don’t have to hear about Taylor Swift every two seconds!

LMAO.  SWIFTIES!!!!!

 

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/38774888

 

Cleveland likely would have won with this play, but that's not why they lost.  Run the ball on 3rd and 3 on the last play before going into two min warning.  If you get first down, great and likely win the game.  If not, make Geno drive down the field with less than two minutes left.  Just bad coaching.  Cleveland is a few plays being 6-1, but are also some plays from being under .500.  They have a real good shot winning their next five games (being favorites).  The next month is huge, especially with everyone being over .500 in the division.

[djb5f]

Didn’t know expect the Niners to be on a 3-game losing skid after how dominant they looked through the first 5.  Purdy has regressed but there’s time to get it back together.  Shanahan is risking it for no reason by playing injury-prone McCaffrey through the final play in garbage time.  That type of negligence can ruin a season.  Seattle being in 1st place is crazy.

Browns have a good defense but they aren’t the best in the league as claimed above.  Myles Garrett is a stud though and if he gets angry, he’ll rip off your helmet and slam it across your head!   AFC Central is an interesting race but the Ravens are the only team of the 3 with an offense.  Maybe Cincinnati still has a chance in that regard.   But Pittsburgh’s and Cleveland’s are bad bad Deshaun Watson is a complete head case, collecting on a huge (terrible) contract without wanting to play. 

Cowboys/Eagles next week will tell a lot about the NFC East and possible #1 seed for the playoffs. 
 

 

[MidnightDragon]

 

4 minutes ago, grimydawg___ said:

LMAO.  SWIFTIES!!!!!

 

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/38774888

 

Cleveland likely would have won with this play, but that's not why they lost.  Run the ball on 3rd and 3 on the last play before going into two min warning.  If you get first down, great and likely win the game.  If not, make Geno drive down the field with less than two minutes left.  Just bad coaching.  Cleveland is a few plays being 6-1, but are also some plays from being under .500.  They have a real good shot winning their next five games (being favorites).  The next month is huge, especially with everyone being over .500 in the division.

Deshaun Watson too busy being a trust fund brat to play. He and his manager deny it, but it’s obvious. He only cares about the money and refused to play when he was cleared last time. Since it’s all guaranteed, he has no reason to play. Best money they ever spent.  

[djb5f]

Just now, MidnightDragon said:

 

Deshaun Watson too busy being a trust fund brat to play. He and his manager deny it, but it’s obvious. He only cares about the money and refused to play when he was cleared last time. Since it’s all guaranteed, he has no reason to play. Best money they ever spent.  

That contract will be an albatross around the franchise for years to come.  One of the worst in NFL history, made all the worst by the creepy stuff he did.  So Cleveland I’m afraid.

[MidnightDragon]

LOL, several attendees of the Denver game said they played Shake it Off after the win. XD 

[grimydawg___]

1 hour ago, MidnightDragon said:

 

Deshaun Watson too busy being a trust fund brat to play. He and his manager deny it, but it’s obvious. He only cares about the money and refused to play when he was cleared last time. Since it’s all guaranteed, he has no reason to play. Best money they ever spent.  

How is it obvious?  Have you tried to lift your arm, let alone throw a football, with a bad rotator cuff?  If anything, he shouldn't have played last week.  The injury he has normally takes 4-6 weeks to recover from.  Cleveland has been starving for a QB for 30 years.  Most franchises have had a franchise QB of some kind since then.  Cleveland hasn't. Of course they would be the team to sign DeShaun SMH  This wouldn't have been an issue, if the coaching didn't cost them another game and if the QB make progressions on his reads.  They should be 6-1, but aren't.  Despite today's outcome, I'm still cautiously optimistic.  Cleveland has played the toughest part of the schedule already and are still over .500.  It wasn't too long ago they would have been 0-7 in that stretch.  They definitely need finish at least 6-4 or so, especially with everyone in the division being over .500.  I don't think 9-8 guarantees a playoff spot this year, not in the AFC. 

 

1 hour ago, djb5f said:

That contract will be an albatross around the franchise for years to come.  One of the worst in NFL history, made all the worst by the creepy stuff he did.  So Cleveland I’m afraid.

It's Cleveland.  I KNEW they were going to get him SMH  We'll never know what would have happened, had Cleveland not traded.  Playing Baker that year caused not only the Browns season (6/9 losses were by less than a TD) , but his reputation.  Cleveland is wary of that, and that's why Watson isn't playing.  If he has games close to what he had in Tennessee, he'll be fine.  He has to get on the field soon.  Honestly, he can rest against Arizona.  That should be a win next week, but not easy.  They need to see if they can get someone like Jacoby Brissett back.  PJ Walker isn't the reason why Cleveland lost, but he needs to make more than one read.  He could have had a TD in the red zone and likely wouldn't have thrown the last pick.  Everyone has to be better.

Edited October 30, 2023 by grimydawg___

[acasser]

1 hour ago, grimydawg___ said:

Cleveland had it smh  Run the football.  The coaching SMH

The New York Giants would like a word.  Because that's all they did the entire second half against the Jets.  Almost literally:  they threw one pass in the third quarter, zero passes in the fourth quarter, and two swing passes (for a combined negative-1 yard) in OT.

 

That Jets-Giants game was an atrocity upon all mankind.  I'm sure NFL Network will replay it once or twice this week while they're filling endless hours of emptiness, but take my advice on this one and give it a miss.  It was an abysmal game, and I'm still trying to figure out just how the Jets finagled themselves a win in between my apologies over text to my friends who are Giants fans.

 

My best hypothesis at the moment?  One part "Giants playing not to lose", one part special teams differential in the kicking game, and at least one part luck.

[grimydawg___]

19 minutes ago, acasser said:

The New York Giants would like a word.  Because that's all they did the entire second half against the Jets.  Almost literally:  they threw one pass in the third quarter, zero passes in the fourth quarter, and two swing passes (for a combined negative-1 yard) in OT.

 

That Jets-Giants game was an atrocity upon all mankind.  I'm sure NFL Network will replay it once or twice this week while they're filling endless hours of emptiness, but take my advice on this one and give it a miss.  It was an abysmal game, and I'm still trying to figure out just how the Jets finagled themselves a win in between my apologies over text to my friends who are Giants fans.

 

My best hypothesis at the moment?  One part "Giants playing not to lose", one part special teams differential in the kicking game, and at least one part luck.

Tyrod Taylor and Waller got hurt.  That was a disaster.  I don't know the extent of their injuries, but everyone should have a grass field.  I saw the Niner Jets game a few years ago and it felt like everyone on the Niners tore an ACL SMH

 

It's just frustrating because I haven't seen the Browns potentially be this competent since I was a kid and stupid mistakes should have led to a 24-17 (even 31-17) win, instead of a 4 point loss.

Edited October 30, 2023 by grimydawg___

[djb5f]

6 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

LOL, several attendees of the Denver game said they played Shake it Off after the win. XD 

 

 

 

[squaresoft4ever7]

1 hour ago, MidnightDragon said:

 

Deshaun Watson too busy being a trust fund brat to play. He and his manager deny it, but it’s obvious. He only cares about the money and refused to play when he was cleared last time. Since it’s all guaranteed, he has no reason to play. Best money they ever spent.  

 

He just needs to get the massage

... I mean message bahaha 🤣

[acasser]

23 minutes ago, grimydawg___ said:

Tyrod Taylor and Waller got hurt.  That was a disaster.  I don't know the extent of their injuries, but everyone should have a grass field.  I saw the Niner Jets game a few years ago and it felt like everyone on the Niners tore an ACL SMH

 

Oh, injuries were absolutely a factor.  Those two on the Giants' side, and the Jets losing the two centers they dressed about thirteen picoseconds apart and having to use a Guard they promoted off the practice squad yesterday to snap the football.  (With the first snap attempt promptly being botched and recovered by the Giants.)  If my approximate count is in the neighborhood, the Jets have lost seven or eight different offensive linemen already this season.

 

I'm still not sure what to think about the field at MetLife Stadium, but the calls to have it replaced because it leads to injuries will get a lot louder after today.

[grimydawg___]

1 minute ago, acasser said:

Oh, injuries were absolutely a factor.  Those two on the Giants' side, and the Jets losing the two centers they dressed about thirteen picoseconds apart and having to use a Guard they promoted off the practice squad yesterday to snap the football.  (With the first snap attempt promptly being botched and recovered by the Giants.)  If my approximate count is in the neighborhood, the Jets have lost seven or eight different offensive linemen already this season.

 

I'm still not sure what to think about the field at MetLife Stadium, but the calls to have it replaced because it leads to injuries will get a lot louder after today.

That's just in general.  Travis Swiftie is lucky he didn't tear his ACL in Minnesota.  I honestly thought he did in Minnesota, as he's been dealing with that knee all year.  Hell, Aaron Rodgers got hurt the first play SMH.  It's not like it costs a lot to maintain a grass field.  It's around $40K-$50K (US) yearly, which is like a penny for billionaires....

[acasser]

10 hours ago, grimydawg___ said:

That's just in general.  Travis Swiftie is lucky he didn't tear his ACL in Minnesota.  I honestly thought he did in Minnesota, as he's been dealing with that knee all year.  Hell, Aaron Rodgers got hurt the first play SMH.  It's not like it costs a lot to maintain a grass field.  It's around $40K-$50K (US) yearly, which is like a penny for billionaires....

 

For the most part, NFL team owners aren't the ones who own the stadiums and maintain the fields.  A lot of those stadiums are owned by a state or municipality who likely has a much more finite number of resources to devote to maintenance, a lot of those stadiums have significantly more in the way of events than NFL games, et cetera.

 

For example, MetLife Stadium has a lot of concerts and they play a fair amount of High School football there around this time of year.  And the state agency that operates the stadium is perpetually starved of funds.  It's not like the Prudential Center in Newark which is actually run by the ownership of the New Jersey Devils with just a lease payment that gets made to the City of Newark.

[skidmarkgn]

Anyone out there familiar with Leonard Williams who can give me a quick lo'down?

[acasser]

9 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

Anyone out there familiar with Leonard Williams who can give me a quick lo'down?

In his Jets' days, he was a highly-touted/highly-drafted interior defensive lineman whose productivity seldom lived up to the hype and draft status.  Rather than extend him, the Jets eventually gave up on him and sent him to the Giants for a couple of middling draft picks.  The Giants gave him a big contract when they had precious little leverage with which to work otherwise; he's been better with Big Blue but his productivity is still inconsistent.

 

He's a solid DL, probably even a "good" DL.  But he'll never be the guy that Jets fans thought we should have gotten with a #6 overall pick.  He's not Aaron Donald or Quinnen Williams or somebody like that, but he'll be a guy you can plug into your defensive line rotation and be okay so long as you aren't expecting numbers that jump off the stat page.

[Zio_Sam87]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:42 AM, djb5f said:

Didn’t know expect the Niners to be on a 3-game losing skid after how dominant they looked through the first 5.  Purdy has regressed but there’s time to get it back together.  Shanahan is risking it for no reason by playing injury-prone McCaffrey through the final play in garbage time.  That type of negligence can ruin a season.  Seattle being in 1st place is crazy.
 

 

 

I'm thinking the real problem is Wilks and how he softened the D

EDIT: Chase Young for a third round, wow... Now if the D don't step up, is clearly Wilks the problem.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Zio_Sam87

[skidmarkgn]

Thank you Pete for all you gave us, thank you Geno for a year and a half of pseudo-relevance but neither one of you are the guys for the job anymore.  In either a win or a loss the story's been the same for years now.  0 for a billion on 3rd down, redzone offense that either falls short or turns it over, time of possession being WAY lopsided to the other team and being completely lost and unable to adjust in the 2nd half.  Today was all of the usual problems x 1,000.