If it wasn't for assist mode, the platinum difficulty rating of this would've been a 10/10.

[GodKaio-Ken]

22 minutes ago, Remilia Scarlet said:

 

Lmao such horseshit. Celeste is ine of the most critically beloved games of all time

 

Despite the little debate about subjective difficulty, I 100% loved the game and agree with this sentiment. 

[TheBlaskar]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:49 PM, GodKaio-Ken said:

 

Despite the little debate about subjective difficulty, I 100% loved the game and agree with this sentiment. 

agreed, it's such a beautiful game. if you haven't yet, check out their twitter page. It's full of updates, fan art, and motivation messages. really worth a look

[HateByDesign716]

This is a game that I had overlooked for ages until I was listening to a podcast and the dude was raving about this game, I tried it about a month ago couldn't take to it, came back like a week or so and haven't played anything else, it's a good challenge especially some of the C-sides but it's amazing and really should be played legitimately! At least once before using the assist mode, I knew nothing of said mode until I was 6 chapters in so gladly I didn't use it. 

[MD_91]

I wouldn't have played this game if it didn't have assist mode, I was only semi interested in playing it so it was good to know I would be able to get the platinum even if I didn't like it or was finding it too difficult but I ended up enjoying it enough that I didn't use assist mode at all.

 

Finished with 8968 deaths in just under 37 hours, I would probably rate it as an 8/10 for difficulty , the b sides took me nearly 5 hours longer than the c sides which I wasn't expecting.

Edited May 16, 2023 by MD_91

[Xillynoc]

Once again, always and forever, bitching and moaning about assist modes in gaming reducing plat rarity (or, rather, letting more people attain it) is pathetic and rarity-gatekeeping is hysterically sad. I want every game I love to have as many platinum/100% achievers as possible, it means more people experienced the whole thing - and if they were able to do so despite, say, a physical disability BECAUSE of accessibility options, even better!

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Once again, always and forever, bitching and moaning about people wanting integrity in the hobby (or, rather, calling people out on their bullshit) is pathetic and high-horse arguments for moral superiority likes are hysterically sad. I want every game I love to have as many platinum/100% achievers as there deserve to be, it means only the people who actually did what was intended for them experienced the whole thing - and if they weren't able to do so because, say, they're not disabled and instead it's BECAUSE they're simply inept, even better! This has been breakfast theater, thank you.

[Mellenthin]

On 16/05/2023 at 9:15 AM, Xillynoc said:

Once again, always and forever, bitching and moaning about assist modes in gaming reducing plat rarity (or, rather, letting more people attain it) is pathetic and rarity-gatekeeping is hysterically sad. I want every game I love to have as many platinum/100% achievers as possible, it means more people experienced the whole thing - and if they were able to do so despite, say, a physical disability BECAUSE of accessibility options, even better!

 

Rarity-gatekeeping, I approve of that word!?

 

That aside, one thing I've learnt over the years is that without a doubt, what makes an already good game even more memorable, is if there's difficulty added to it. And if you've struggled for something, it's perfectly natural not wanting others get it for free. Everything gained for free is usually very forgettable.

 

I honestly don't care whether you had your arms and legs blown away or if you fell off the roof and landed on your face, just don't award trophies if using assisted mode features. It completely defeats the purpose of the trophy system.

 

It's especially ironic that you're advocating for this, since the people that would technically benefit the most, their life ought to be hard already to the degree that trophies should be near meaningless to them - so why even bother to hand them out.?

 

1 hour ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

Once again, always and forever, bitching and moaning about people wanting integrity in the hobby (or, rather, calling people out on their bullshit) is pathetic and high-horse arguments for moral superiority likes are hysterically sad. I want every game I love to have as many platinum/100% achievers as there deserve to be, it means only the people who actually did what was intended for them experienced the whole thing - and if they weren't able to do so because, say, they're not disabled and instead it's BECAUSE they're simply inept, even better! This has been breakfast theater, thank you.

 

Integrity is mostly frowned upon these days; it's all about inclusion it seems.?

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mellenthin

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

32 minutes ago, Mellenthin said:

 

Integrity is mostly frowned upon these days; it's all about inclusion it seems.

My brother in Sigmar, it sure does feel that way

[JohnCenaSong-]

On 16/05/2023 at 8:15 AM, Xillynoc said:

Once again, always and forever, bitching and moaning about assist modes in gaming reducing plat rarity (or, rather, letting more people attain it) is pathetic and rarity-gatekeeping is hysterically sad.

It's one simple factor that's worth remembering.

 

These people who are particularly vocal in complaining do not want to do difficult games for difficulties sake, they don't do it to challenge themselves (though that's what they may proclaim). They do it purely for validation. They need people to know at a glance that they did something hard and couldn't have possibly cheated it as there was no option to. They need it so people can easily assume they're a gifted gamer without having to provide additional evidence since they have nothing else of note going for them in their lives that their status as a 'god gamer' is such an important to their identity.

 

If people truly cared about challenging themselves in games and being 'good' at games they wouldn't be interested in how other completely irrelevant people are playing them as it doesn't impact their own journey in any way and they also wouldn't be interested in how other's view them either as it also doesn't impact their experience in overcoming the challenge. In today's world people are just obsessed with needing constant validation.

 

I would never use assist mode as it's not how I tend to play games and yeah I admit I personally don't understand why someone would opt to take on difficult challenges yet mitigate it by using assists, cheeses, exploits etc.

But whether I understand it or not it's existence doesn't magically hurt my own experience and choice... no one's forcing me to enable it. The only thing I lose from it existing is simply only that ability to attain bragging rights and validation, but if I cared that much I can just screenshot/record evidence that I hadn't used said assist mode (and many of those folk who complain do exactly that, screenshot their unassisted save files etc.)

[Vulpine9Tails]

Oh no people are getting platinums using in-game accessibility options provided by the developer?!?! Ban them all. How dare they go against my personal belief that everything in life needs to be difficult just so I can feel validated for 0.2 seconds during the off chance someone sees the game on my profile. Because for some reason I do believe I'm important enough for people to notice how godly I am at games despite knowing deep down no one actually gives a poop. 

[WiktorM101]

Overcoming a challenge is sometimes part of expierience. 

 

As simple thing as easy combat in games can reduce all tention to zero. Chase moments in Assassin's Creed are pathetic compared to Dying Light 1 at night.

 

Not every game needs to be easy or to be enjoyed for everybody, It's not exacly gatekeeping.

Im not bitching that horror games are scary i don't expect devs to make every game for me.

Books can aim for very specific audiance, movies can do it, podcasts or youtubers too, but if games are not inclusive for everyone that's a problem now? 

 

Im all for devs vision and how they want their piece of art to be expierienced and how to make player feel. If devs want to make the game inclusive i am all for it but expecting then to add easy mode to every game is bad.

Like so many petitions to add easy mode to souls games.

 

Im not the expert but for me artistic vision is what makes difference between art and product. 

 

I pick game that is 1/10 for some 10/10 for others then, "not for everyone " over 7/10 for everybody.

 

I love my games that i can't recommend. 

 

Artistic vision over accesability every time.

Edited July 14, 2023 by WiktorM101

[DrBloodmoney]

26 minutes ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

It's one simple factor that's worth remembering.

 

These people who are particularly vocal in complaining do not want to do difficult games for difficulties sake, they don't do it to challenge themselves (though that's what they may proclaim). They do it purely for validation. They need people to know at a glance that they did something hard and couldn't have possibly cheated it as there was no option to. They need it so people can easily assume they're a gifted gamer without having to provide additional evidence since they have nothing else of note going for them in their lives that their status as a 'god gamer' is such an important to their identity.

 

If people truly cared about challenging themselves in games and being 'good' at games they wouldn't be interested in how other completely irrelevant people are playing them as it doesn't impact their own journey in any way and they also wouldn't be interested in how other's view them either as it also doesn't impact their experience in overcoming the challenge. In today's world people are just obsessed with needing constant validation.

Well said.

 

I think it speaks volumes that the same people you are referring to are often the same ones who prize values like completion percentage, or average rarity, and will vocally front like Billy-big-balls about their prowess using such metrics…

… but have often very clearly and visibly restarted their own profiles, to avoid having to do the actual “work” and put in the actual “effort” to maintain the standards they hold everyone else to.

[bosstristan]

On 15/12/2018 at 10:34 PM, Pots3k said:

I've decided that I'll probably never get the Platinum trophy, for a couple of reasons.

I will not use assist mode for all my reasons stated earlier in this thread - and I cannot beat 5c, it is beyond my ability. 

But also, I think I have curated a list of trophies that I consider to have some integrity. The rarity of all my platinum trophies are commiserate with the effort I have put in to obtain them. This has pretty much been an unspoken rule about trophy assignment since trophies were a thing. Games like Furi and Runner3 are great examples of allowing for an "assist" mode without affecting trophy rarity. Of all people, I did not expect Matt to break that rule.

 

Inb4 some post about how pretentious I am, but that is how I have viewed my trophy list since I started. My first Platinum was Mirror's Edge because I I felt it was my rite of passage into trophy hunting. Assist mode devalues the effort put in by the people who actually legitmately 100%'d Celeste and it also devalues the work Matt put in to make the challenges in the first place.

 

Totally agree and admire your trophy hunting ethics. I wish more were like you, the sad reality is that most go for the easy way and the cheap way (autopop, shovelwares etc)

[Moridin83]

I haven't played Celeste yet, but my 2 cents in the overall issue is that I'm fine with people playing however they want, and if devs allow/overlook earning trophies with this type of assist so be it. At the same time, I always laugh at people who get upset about assist modes disabling trophies, it shows you where their priorities lie.

 

I don't think someone's use of assists devalues my plat in any meaningful way, and the only time it annoys me is if you try to brag like you did it in your own. I know which of my games I did 100% as intended, and I'm proud of them regardless of how anyone else did it.

[blazkowicz6]

I was just thinking it would be fun to play something with assist mode like Control and saw this thread. Thanks for lifting it. ?

[Withanx]

I find it ironic to see stuff like this posted on a site that is dedicated to helping people get platinums as painlessly and quickly as possible. I'd wager all my platinums that 99% of people on this site (+/- 1%) use guides to find collectibles in many games rather than searching them all out for themselves. Everyone complaining about playing the games "as intended" but have no hesitancy using a second controller to get co-op trophies rather than doing it "as intended". And trophies aren't necessarily there to reward you for doing something hard, but for encouraging you to explore all a game has to offer and play it in ways you might not have. It's certainly questionable whether all games are successful in this. In this game in particular, I'm sure the developers were more concerned with encouraging ALL players to check out all the levels they created than gatekeeping certain trophies behind a difficulty spike, otherwise they for sure would have disabled trophies on assist mode. Assist modes are not there for people who want to get easy platinums, it's there to help people play the game who may have difficulty playing games the way most people do. And who are we to say they shouldn't be rewarded for accomplishing something that, for them, may be as hard with assist mode as it is for us without it? Someone else put it brilliantly that people this concerned about difficulty settings on trophies like this aren't interested in difficult games for difficulty sake, they just want to be validated. "Look at me...I did a hard thing". It's telling and disturbing that people care so much about how rare this particular trophy is. 

[CB7Tuner91]

I can get the hate on assist mode, but this developer has a complex when it comes to the difficulty of his games. He doesn't just make them hard but long. He makes them so almost no one can complete them. Ive played TowerFall and Celeste and im a fan of difficult games, but to complete TowerFall 100% is ridiculous. And Celeste would be insane if it wasn't for assist mode. The last area blew my mind how long it was EVEN with assist mode on. I'm not saying his games are bad but his got along ways to go to find a balance in his games. 

[Mori]

4 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

These people who are particularly vocal in complaining (1)do not want to do difficult games for difficulties sake, (2)they don't do it to challenge themselves (though that's what they may proclaim). (3)They do it purely for validation. (4)They need people to know at a glance that they did something hard and couldn't have possibly cheated it as there was no option to. They need it so people can easily assume they're a gifted gamer without having to provide additional evidence (5)since they have nothing else of note going for them in their lives that their status as a 'god gamer' is such an important to their identity.

 

(1) Wrong

(2) Wrong, but good to know you know my motivations better than I do.

(3) To some extend, yeah probably. I share stuff on my youtube channel, I enjoy getting feedback and it feels good when people like something I have accomplished but that's about it. I am still my own biggest fan and I watch my stuff every now and then, and even feel something like pride I guess, seeing how far I have come and pushed myself in these last 5-6 years in terms of gaming. But my daily interactions with family and friends (on PSN) are far more impactful than anything a stranger could say about my gaming accomplishments.

(4) Yes, it is important to me to not be wrongfully seen as a cheater. No, I don't feel the need to tell/show everyone immediately that I did something legit, however I am not going to hide the fact if the topic arises. I am also not going to say I did something legit, if I used an exploit myself.

(5) True, thank you for your compassion and thoughtfulness. Let me lend you a hand so you can come down from your high horse and I can show you what's going on behind the curtain of a "god gamers" life.

 

 

I am not going to pretend that my thoughts about this topic aren't flawed, but that are some hardcore generalizations about people you know nothing about.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mori

[dieselmanchild]

55 minutes ago, blazkowicz6 said:

I was just thinking it would be fun to play something with assist mode like Control and saw this thread. Thanks for lifting it. ?

Celeste is amazing! But I’d recommend trying to play as much as possible without Assist Mode (at first) so you can truly appreciate how clever and well designed the platforming is in this game.

 

Of course you can use assists right from the start and rush through the game very quickly for an easy and relaxing platinum if you want to, but in my opinion you will miss out on most of what makes this such a fantastic experience. I think it’s nearly impossible to appreciate the thought that went into designing all the various levels and challenges if you’re not actually using any of the intended mechanics of the game (with full assists you can basically just fly from screen to screen bypassing all platforming entirely)

 

40 minutes ago, CB7Tuner91 said:

. I'm not saying his games are bad but his got along ways to go to find a balance in his games. 

I think Assist Mode is his idea of balance. I haven’t played TowerFall, but when it comes to Celeste at least, this game is brilliantly designed and quite difficult by default (especially the Side B & C modes which are insanely hard, at least for me). But the addition of Assist Mode and the lack of limitations imposed on the player by using it means every single person can tweak the settings here and there in ways that make the game manageable for them, while still experiencing the core platforming mechanics and adjusting the level of challenge to whatever suits them.
 

I think he succeeded in creating a very well made game, targeting that smaller audience of very skilled platformer players, yet still managed to make it accessible to absolutely everybody regardless of their skill and experience. It’s a decent solution imo, much easier than trying to design levels that constantly hit that Goldilocks sweet spot of being challenging but not too challenging, and pleasing both expert platformers and newbies alike.

[disaster500]

1 hour ago, Withanx said:

I find it ironic to see stuff like this posted on a site that is dedicated to helping people get platinums as painlessly and quickly as possible. I'd wager all my platinums that 99% of people on this site (+/- 1%) use guides to find collectibles in many games rather than searching them all out for themselves. Everyone complaining about playing the games "as intended" but have no hesitancy using a second controller to get co-op trophies rather than doing it "as intended".

 

I think the main difference is that collectible guides mainly reduce the time spent wandering around an area finding 50+ identical collectibles. It doesn't take any skill to do so, it's just not fun for most people. Guides are especially important for missable collectibles etc.

 

However, assist modes making the game much easier reduces time/effort spent on the actual main gameplay, which is especially sad in a game as good as Celeste. People using it are just robbing themselves of the intended experience of the game (especially if you go all the way and activate invincibility/infinite dashes). Maybe you find difficult games tedious, and assist modes help speed that up, but in that case why are you playing Celeste?

 

One reduces time spent doing tedious repetitive tasks, one reduces time spent playing the game as intended. Maybe the people actually using the assist modes disagree and have a different perspective, but that's how I see it.

 

Personally, I don't really care if other people use assist mode, but I do kind of wish it wasn't there, especially in a game that's intended to be difficult and in a game where climbing a mountain is a metaphor for overcoming a challenge. 

 

Also, Celeste without assist mode is like a 7/10 difficulty max. You're not required to do any sort of deathless runs or time trials. Hardest part is simply beating the last screen of levels 7C and 8C.

Edited July 14, 2023 by disaster500

[Vulpine9Tails]

56 minutes ago, disaster500 said:

...why are you playing Celeste?

 

I heard it has a good story. They made a game where it's equal parts story and gameplay, why should they lock the story behind skill checks without some way of allowing it to be seen regardless. This isn't Dark Souls. The developer decided to include the assist mode to provide access the story to everyone who may not be skilled enough to get to it on their own. Being upset about accessibility options in games is like being mad at someone for being blind and using a seeing eye dog. You also don't get to tell someone they can't play a particular game because of it. It's called Assist Mode not Beat the Whole Game for Me Mode.

 

I'm with everyone saying who cares because honestly it's in the game, and if I want to use it I will. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vulpine9Tails

[Mori]

4 minutes ago, Vulpine9Tails said:

Being upset about accessibility options in games is like being mad at someone for being blind and using a seeing eye dog.

 

In other words

 

"me using accessibility options in video games is on the same level as a disabled person using aid to conquer their day to day life"

 

got it.

[Vulpine9Tails]

17 minutes ago, Mori said:

 

In other words

 

"me using accessibility options in video games is on the same level as a disabled person using aid to conquer their day to day life"

 

got it.

 

What do you think accessibility is for? We have colorblind modes, adjustable sizes for subtitles, different coloured outlines for interactive objects in the environment etc. There's also an accessible controller coming out for disabled people in the fall. You think that because someone was born with a disability or became disabled now they aren't allowed to earn platinums just because a few people care about rarity? Yikes. 

[Clennx]

I can understand people that doesn't like trophies unlocking in assist mode or glitches, making it less valuable. I feel that to them, the platinum is a leaderboard, like a speedrunning one, but there is one leaderboard for all categories. 

 

So, if a guy that practiced dozens of hours to be able to make a speedrun of a game in 1 hour without glitches, but then comes another person that is horrible at the game, barely beat it, does the speedrun doing the most absurds glitches to cut half the game, also getting a time of 1 hour. And at the leaderboard, as there is only one, the second guy even beats the first by minutes. It's understandable if the first dude gets mad.

 

It's a bad comparison with the whole trophy situation, but it's to explain that to the "elitist" people, the platinum it's a competition, one with himself and all the players. At least that's my view of the whole debate.

[CB7Tuner91]

2 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

 

 

I think Assist Mode is his idea of balance. I haven’t played TowerFall, but when it comes to Celeste at least, this game is brilliantly designed and quite difficult by default (especially the Side B & C modes which are insanely hard, at least for me). But the addition of Assist Mode and the lack of limitations imposed on the player by using it means every single person can tweak the settings here and there in ways that make the game manageable for them, while still experiencing the core platforming mechanics and adjusting the level of challenge to whatever suits them.
 

I think he succeeded in creating a very well made game, targeting that smaller audience of very skilled platformer players, yet still managed to make it accessible to absolutely everybody regardless of their skill and experience. It’s a decent solution imo, much easier than trying to design levels that constantly hit that Goldilocks sweet spot of being challenging but not too challenging, and pleasing both expert platformers and newbies alike.

Oh I agree the game is brilliant. It's just I don't think having the game extremely hard or extremely easy is the way to balance your game. Ive played plenty of platformers that hit that sweet spot, and this guy seems talented enough to balance his games better going forward.