Undead Wolf

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?   335 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it be changed?

    • It's outdated and should be changed (be sure to post if you have a better idea than mine)
      153
    • It's perfect the way it is now
      181

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262 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The only change I want from the system is the ability to delete games from your profile once you earn a trophy in them. Most games give you a trophy within the first few minutes, thus making the 0% deletion option almost worthless.

 

Edit: The shovelware also needs to stop.

Edited by sepheroithisgod
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Imo the system is fine as is, i'd much rather you be able to delete any lists on your account. personally i don't care if a game has a plat or not, but i don't feel games that are just 100% should go and just give every game a plat.

 

Personally we worry about this to much, the simple answer is play what you want, who cares how long,short, easy or hard the game takes to plat. Another thing just getting a plat in a game doesn't mean you have to stop playing it, 

 

p.s do people really think this is a big issue for Sony xDxD 

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2 hours ago, gameoverDude189 said:

There are just 2 things I'd change.

A game's offline & online modes should be treated as 2 separate games, having a plat for each one.

There should be a progress bar for trophies that say something like "flash guard 100 times", "kill 2000 enemies", etc. Steam does that. Sony should have little if any trouble doing it.

agreed. or in the least make online trophies as DLC trophies only, so you can still get the platinum via single player.(although this idea wouldn't work well with completionists.) your idea is just as good, also the progress idea would be neat too.

 

i'm not too sure if the way you earn trophies needs an over haul, never really thought about it. everyone receives satisfaction in different ways, sometimes its nice to get some quick platinums if you've been working hard toward some bigger ones. i do like to see level increases time to time and also someday's would like to get a platinum lol.

 

but yeah, other things concerning trophies could use a work over like mentioned by the above user, and like others said deleting games you've earned trophies on would be neat, at the expense of lowering your level/level percentage of course.

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

Sony really needs to cut down on these 'shovelware' trophy lists with 15 minute platinums which are repeated 6 times over (6 worthless platinums) for a single game. They need to make standards, like if a game has a platinum trophy it must have 4 gold trophies max, 10 silver max, and the rest bronze, and the platinum cannot be earned within 2 hours. It's unbelievable to see games with a platinum and all the rest gold (no silver or bronze) which you get in mere minutes which are just completely devaluing the usefulness of the system. Getting a platinum trophy no longer is a quick indicator that you put actual effort into a game - leaving sites like this to eventually probably have to make some sort of new indicator to show effort if this mess continues.

I really liked TheYuriG's idea: filtering out trophies above certain %.

Seems relatively easy to implement and it could work as alternative (or main) leaderboard.

Edited by nyonmyan
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5 hours ago, diskdocx said:

You aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.


There are many ways already to track the trophy values, but will make little change overall to rankings for most individuals.

 

This depends on what you consider the "top" and what you consider "EZPZ." There are currently almost exactly 1000 platinums above a 50% rarity and/or take less than 12 hours real time to complete. Doing them all would effectively put you near the top 100 as it is now.  Also, the current prototype rarity leaderboard ranks me in the top 1000, a HUGE difference.

 

~~~~~~

 

Anyway, assigning a point value has its advantages. Games without platinums would be much more equal to games with platinums.  If there is a consensus on what the "average" platinum time / skill / effort should be, then all platinums could (subjectively) be representative to that in the form of a score.

 

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I'm kind of okay with the current system, but there are things that can be improved:

  • A platinum trophy for all games
  • Platinums should require some kind of effort (although you can't really quantify this, but as said previously, making sure that even the best playtesters can't achieve a platinum under 2-3 hours, or so)
  • Platinums shouldn't require online exclusive trophies except for games that are always online
  • The ability to delete trophies for a single game (for "cousin" cheaters and for those who'd like to re-do faster) or introducing another tier of trophy indicating that you've completed the game more times (wouldn't have a high value, maybe even zero)
  • Sony or the devs should make sure that there are no cloud save autopops, it's just nonsense
  • DLC trophies should be limited so that they don't drop a platinumed game to 60%
9 minutes ago, QQQ_AX said:

Stop letting users back up saves to USB, you idiots. 

 

What? Not everyone is a trophy hunter and not everyone lives at one place.

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Posted (edited)

On 4/10/2019 at 3:03 AM, fbdbh said:

What? Not everyone is a trophy hunter and not everyone lives at one place.

 

I think a profile that has done every single Arcade Archives is more impressive than some one-off hotshot tryhard that has a hard game or two done like DMC5 or Sekiro.

 

On 4/9/2019 at 5:10 PM, TheYuriG said:

This is a funny topic because on the bot I'm building, I'm actually creating an optional command which will detract everything above 50% from your profile. Your total trophies will take a fall regardless if you don't play EZPZ, since starting trophies are already usually above 50%. Once I'm done going through the process of coding that command, I'll get back here and post the results from my own profile for comparison.

 

I would be interested in a way to take away all trophy points (level) from a profile of incomplete games and only count the score of 100% complete games (Platinum but incomplete DLC don't count).

Edited by QQQ_AX
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The only thing that should change is that games like Prairie or Mayo shouldn't get plats (and I have the Mayo trophies, nothing wrong with them, but plats should require a certain level of skill and dedication).

Of course new features could improve the system, but this is different from saying that things need to change.

I do like your idea about the point system being based on rarity though.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

The only thing that should change is that games like Prairie or Mayo shouldn't get plats (and I have the Mayo trophies, nothing wrong with them, but plats should require a certain level of skill and dedication).

Of course new features could improve the system, but this is different from saying that things need to change.

I do like your idea about the point system being based on rarity though.

 

I think I once heard that there's a bias with approval processes at Sony America or Europe and unfair relationships with certain developers that lead to games like Mayo getting a Platinum.

 

That needs to stop happening.

 

This didn't really happen on PS3 because things were more clear and clean. Retail games were large games that had a Platinum. Small games were digital only that had a 100%. Nowadays publishers blur the lines of what is a retail and digital game, with so many digital coming retail or even releasing at-launch on both. And no one is there anymore to step in and say "this crap doesn't deserve a Platinum".

 

The best time for all of this was back when the Playstation Store did not get any retail games available. The store was all digital-only games. If you wanted the games with Platinum you had to get retail discs except rare cases like Wipeout HD (which did eventually get a disc copy). I think the Playstation Store only started getting retail games on download around 2011. Another reason why the golden days of trophies is 2008-2011.

Edited by QQQ_AX
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2 minutes ago, QQQ_AX said:

 

I think I once heard that there's a bias with approval processes at Sony America or Europe and unfair relationships with certain developers that lead to games like Mayo getting a Platinum.

 

That needs to stop happening.

 

This didn't really happen on PS3 because things were more clear and clean. Retail games were large games that had a Platinum. Small games were digital only that had a 100%. Nowadays publishers blur the lines of what is a retail and digital game, with so many digital coming retail or even releasing at-launch on both. And no one is there anymore to step in and say "this crap doesn't deserve a Platinum".

Maybe of Sony actually gave rewards for platinums consistently they wouldn't allow them to be handed out with such abandon.

The other option is to just give every game a platinum of course, which I'm not opposed to, but give actual points based on rarity.

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33 minutes ago, QQQ_AX said:

I would be interested in a way to take away all trophy points (level) from a profile of incomplete games and only count the score of 100% complete games (Platinum but incomplete DLC don't count).

That would be a plan for another time because I would have to parse information from all the incomplete games and then remove all of those points from your major total. It could totally happen at some point, but not anytime soon i'm afraid. Specially since this site won't load all your games at once without doing some funky shit.

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Posted (edited)

I think it's safe to say that the few people at Sony that cared about trophies are long gone. So don't expect an update to Sony's system any time soon. The PSN level being capped at 100 has been pretty tragic for some time now and could (should) have been fixed long ago.

 

If you want to see any other changes, you should advocate for them on this site. But what you should not ever expect is Sony to implement changes to suit PSNP statistics. Let's take rarity for example, it means very little on PSN itself. Almost every plat is ultra rare there.

 

And in the end, we should not forget how this site (and ones like it) are part of 'the problem' too. People primarily use cheesy-easy-peasy plat stacking to gain as many spots on the leaderboards as they can in a short time. It's not so much for their PSN trophy card as it is for this site and others like it.

 

Companies like Ratalaika make a living off of PSNP more than off of PSN itself. Why do you think they have such an  active presence here? Because they know where to market their 10 minute plat games. WE are part of the problem and the longer we deny that and put it all on Sony's doorstep, the longer any 'solution' will take.

Edited by pinkrobot_pb
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1 minute ago, FawltyPowers said:

4) I would like multiplayer pvp trophies to be removed. Multiplayer trophies completely devalue the multiplayer experience for those who just want to play the game normally. People who play multiplayer pvp are doing it to try and top leaderboards, they don't care about trophies. Have an online leaderboard rank on their profile instead. Imagine being able to see a leaderboard rank on here and the competition that would create. For games that are just pvp then the game would still be added to your profile but there would be no trophies and instead just an online rank.

 

Ah when you're playing multiplayer and somebody's jumping around in a corner or something, "I'm doing this for a trophy" is written all over it, while your team is losing.

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@BlindMango Dont agree with the limit of 4 Gold and 10 Silver in a title. For instance take No Mans Sky, Thief (2014) , Driveclub and for a part Terminator Salvation. These games take either skill or effort to attain. These kind of games make me have fun in gaming. I know I too have a few more then questionable trophy list games. Mostly brought to me by friends who joke around.

 

But still you can see there are enough games that require effort or skill.

 

But i do agree with you that some games are a joke in trophy to skill/effort wise. But in the end it is the players choice to play them or not.

 

@fbdbh a platinum for all games is not good games like mayo in my opinion does not deserve a platinum, a game like Another World does but did not include one.

DLC trophy wise is a little questionable on one hand yes i agree but on the other hand if there is a lot of (good quality) DLC`s i dont mind.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

The only change I want from the system is the ability to delete games from your profile once you earn a trophy in them. Most games give you a trophy within the first few minutes, thus making the 0% deletion option almost worthless.

 

Edit: The shovelware also needs to stop.

 

Sony also needs to change it where if you hide a game, it takes away the trophy points. Right now, short sighted and stupid, when hiding a game the gamer still keeps the points. Great work, Sony. What will they invent for PS5 that ruins trophies even more?

 

For the shovelware thing, FYI I think PS has doubled or even tripled the amount of trophy games now than Xbox. Xbox was around years before trophies, starting in 2005, and had a monopoly for many years allowing it to gain a lot of games, shovelware and not. Even with those numbers, the intense amount of shit that Sony has let in with the PS4 generation has outdone Xbox's entire history by multiple amounts.

 

47 minutes ago, TheYuriG said:

That would be a plan for another time because I would have to parse information from all the incomplete games and then remove all of those points from your major total. It could totally happen at some point, but not anytime soon i'm afraid. Specially since this site won't load all your games at once without doing some funky shit.

 

What about others sites that load the entire list at once like PSNTL?

Edited by QQQ_AX
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i voted that its outdated. its extremely outdated. they need to make it so that every game has an in-game trophy tracker especially for open world games/rpgs or trophies that requires farming/grinding.

 

the trophy system also needs a search function for a particular game when going through your trophy list as its just cumbersome to scroll through your entire list everytime youre looking for a certain game.

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9 minutes ago, QQQ_AX said:

What about others sites that load the entire list at once like PSNTL?

PSNTL does something called "loadlate" where it will only start downloading your list once it's done loading the rest of the page. I can still probably load from there though. Would have to look it up.

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Posted (edited)

I think there should be a rarity grade lower than common. Instead we could give out digital wooden spoons rather than free platinum trophies, that actually minus points off your overall leaderboard score.

#woodenSpoonsMatter

 

Edited by KaKrackle
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I've personally stopped buying Ratalaika games. Getting 2 plats in under an hour is fun at first, but now? Meh. LIke, Maybe I'll buy some in the future, but not for a while. 

 

And I agree with the dude who said there needs to be a trophy for booting the game. I've seen people ''speed run'' certain platinum by making sure to not register any trophies, complete like 99% ofr the trophy objective, then finish the things in one fell swoop. Those are rare, and the games that allow that kind of stuff also is rare, but still, it would give an extra challenge to the speedrunners.

 

I think they also should stop making online trophies. I bought Modnationracers on the Vita, thinking I'd get some of the online trophies, but nope, server closed. They should at least patch the games so there's a way to get those online trophies offline (when and only when the servers closes)

 

Leaderboard trophies need to go. ''Be 1st in the leaderboard for level X'' trophies are just plain dumb. The only trophies I ever got for this were in 2 little big planet game. IIRC LB2, in which I got a perfect score (got all bubbles and didn't die) so I was first, alongside hundreads of player, and in LBP Karting, where I was the first to play someone else's track, thus I was automatically first place.

 

 

10 minutes ago, UlvenFenrir said:

i voted that its outdated. its extremely outdated. they need to make it so that every game has an in-game trophy tracker especially for open world games/rpgs or trophies that requires farming/grinding.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Sony (or Microsoft and Steam for their acheivement system for that matter) can actually do that. Though I agree that developper should do that. RDR2 was a step in the right direction. It didn't tell us the tracker for missable trophies, but it's easy to check your Honor level, the compendium, challenge and gold medal list, all of which have trophies attached to it. Also, let's not forget that it'd be hard to make a tracker for games that offer single and multiplayer mode, as often, they each have their own save file (RDR2 is again, an example. Your file with Arthur/John is tied to your console/PSplus cloud, while your RDO file is tied to R* servers.)

 

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12 hours ago, TrueMrBubbles said:

I like the way you think it should be with Points based on some kind of rarity 

 

PSN Trophy Leaders already does this:

 

https://(URL not allowed)/

 

There is a leaderboard rankings for rarity. Probably the only thing I really value aside from Completist.

 

12 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

Well, or one, they should allow you to delete games from your trophy list regardless of completion percentage, at the very least in cases of server shutdowns or glitched trophies. Failing that, hiding them from yourself the same way you can hide Z-grade PS+ game you're never going to play from your library is a livable middle ground.

 

PSNP should follow suit and remove vitrified trophies that are unobtainable from any subsite that displays unearned trophies... advisor, etc. At the very least it should be an option. Options affect nobody apart from Duke Amiel du H'ardcore and his gatekeeping "prestige gamer" ilk, who should just get off the bus already anyway.

 

This is basically deleting a part of your history.

 

If you didn't get the platinum in time, then tough luck. But asking for entire games to simply be wiped out from your trophy list history is just ridiculous.

 

12 hours ago, diskdocx said:

Trophy system is fine. Only change I would make is to give every game a plat. 

 

Really this post is just a variation on the weekly EZPZ games suck argument. The trophy system is not devalued by short plats. This site probably skews it, but the top of the leaderboard would not change at all if you removed all the short games, as virtually everyone has them. The only people that would be positively or negatively effected are those that have only short plats - and you aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.


Furthermore, most games are significantly more rare on PSN than here on this site. My score would be much higher if you went off PSN rarity than PSNP rarity.

 

There are many ways already to track the trophy values, but will make little change overall to rankings for most individuals.

 

Some of those top guys have team accounts, which most aren't going to admit.

 

You have to play an average of 12 - 18 hours a day trophy hunting, and I can tell you from past experience that playing for rankings on the leaderboards isn't worth the effort.

 

Hakoom plays for many hours every day and he has been trophy hunting for over 10 years. So have most of those other guys on the front page.

 

The statistics on PSN track EVERYBODY, not just those who have an account on PSNProfiles. Rarity doesn't mean jack shit on PSN, because a bunch of easy games that I completed are hovering around a Very Rare - Ultra Rare, and there was nothing skill based about those titles when I played through them.

 

12 hours ago, MMX20 said:

Oh dear... This better not be a repeat of that other topic which should not be mentioned.

 

Obviously the thread I made that got locked.

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