THIS IS SOME BULLSHIT!!

[Livingstone7728]

10 hours ago, Ric said:

 

 

TLOU sold over 17 million copies total. This game has only just opened with 4. We will see how well it does over the longer run. I'm not convinced they will surpass the first game, which if it wouldn't should say enough on the quality of a sequal.

 

Also, the perfect scores come from the official magazines and websites, a lot from the west (IGN Japan gave it a 7 for example). Independent reviewers hower are almost all giving it an average to good score (mostly ranging from 6-8). That should also be telling.

 

Not all people that don't like the story are trolls that never played it. I've got the platinum for it. Am I to call you a troll with an invalid opinion for not completely finishing up with a platinum yet? That's not how that works.

 

People that say the game is shit, are simply countering the people calling it a masterpiece. It's neither. It's "just" a decent game.
 

 

 

 

I finished the story... so no I'm not trolling... if you finished the story and didn't enjoy it... that's fine... I'm saying the fact that it sold 4 million copies in 3 days... the fact that it's a 94/100 on metacritic and in all likelihood will win may goty awards... Clearly contradicts it being the worst game on this generation (which is a review I read). Games will always draw different opinions... but this one will get faaaar more love than hate... many of the people that reviewed it... didnt play it...so take what they say with a grain of salt... 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Livingstone7728

[dieselmanchild]

48 minutes ago, Livingstone7728 said:

I finished the story... so no I'm not trolling... if you finished the story and didn't enjoy it... that's fine... I'm saying the fact that it sold 4 million copies in 3 days... the fact that it's a 94/100 on metacritic and in all likelihood will win may goty awards... Clearly contradicts it being the worst game on this generation (which is a review I read). Games will always draw different opinions... but this one will get faaaar more love than hate... many of the people that reviewed it... didnt play it...so take what they say with a grain of salt... 

 

I don’t think the fact it sold 4 million copies in 3 days means anything at all at this point.

 

It’s certainly an incredibly impressive number of sales in such a short time, but it’s not surprising in the least when you account for the fact that The Last of Us 2 is one of the most hyped game sequels of all time. Considering the legendary/masterpiece status of the first game, the 7 year wait for a sequel, the huge build up towards the release of the game over the past 2 years or so, and the fact Naughty Dog and Sony have no doubt spent millions on advertising (this game is literally being advertised on every site I go to), anything less than this at this point would be considered rather underwhelming.

 

Like a guy above said, I think the real test will be long term sales, and whether or not it outsells the first game. With TLoU2 quickly becoming one of the most divisive games ever released, it’s hard to predict where this game will end up once the initial hype dies down.

[DeepEyes7]

1 hour ago, dieselmanchild said:

Like a guy above said, I think the real test will be long term sales, and whether or not it outsells the first game. With TLoU2 quickly becoming one of the most divisive games ever released, it’s hard to predict where this game will end up once the initial hype dies down.

 

And that's something that probably we will never know because TLoU1 was released on 2 consoles and TLoU2 probably will be patched for PS5, so, if TLoU2 doesn't reach the numbers of TLoU1 doesn't necessarily means that it was a bad game, the hype died, or the divisive story damaged their sales....

[KRIEGLERR]

Yeah that is just stupid. Personally I think the ending would have been better if it ended 

Spoiler

After Abby spare Dina and Ellie and we find Ellie at the farm with Dina and J.J, I think this was MY satisfying ending as I actually grew to sympathize with Abby in the end and thought she had lost much more than Ellie.  
But the game is brutal and has always been from the prologue of the first game, so the ending made sense, I didn't expect a "happy ending" it's just me wishing we had one.  

 

[Silver-I-Chariot]

6 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

 

I don’t think the fact it sold 4 million copies in 3 days means anything at all at this point.

 

According to wikipedia, Final Fantasy XV shipped 5 million copies worldwide within 24 hours and sold 9 million by october 2019.

I still consider it to be the worst AAA game ever made. People will buy anything if there is enough hype behind it and some games are just too big to fail.

[Livingstone7728]

24 minutes ago, KRIEGLERR said:

Yeah that is just stupid. Personally I think the ending would have been better if it ended 

  Hide contents

After Abby spare Dina and Ellie and we find Ellie at the farm with Dina and J.J, I think this was MY satisfying ending as I actually grew to sympathize with Abby in the end and thought she had lost much more than Ellie.  
But the game is brutal and has always been from the prologue of the first game, so the ending made sense, I didn't expect a "happy ending" it's just me wishing we had one.  

 

The ending made perfect sense... ellie's need for revenge cost her everything... she couldnt even play the guitar properly... and she lost her family... 

[KRIEGLERR]

12 minutes ago, Livingstone7728 said:

The ending made perfect sense... ellie's need for revenge cost her everything... she couldnt even play the guitar properly... and she lost her family... 

Oh I know that. BTW when I said "This is just stupid" I mean the petition, not the ending.  the game makes it clear that there is cost to your actions.  I didn't dislike the ending, it made sense like I said, it was just me wanting a happy ending.  

Spoiler

Abby's revenge cost her everything,  all her friends, the man she loved, an unborn baby and indirectly even her home. Not only that but she has to live with the guilt that her actions (revenge) is what killed them all.  

Ellie's revenge cost her everything too, it turned her into a killer (up until now all the people she killed was in self defense) torturing Nora and killing Mel broke her, then her PTSD compelled her to still risk losing her family to get closure. And in the end she's left with nothing, not ever her ability to play Guitar (although I think she was probably on he way to Jackson)  

Not only that but in the first game she tells Sam her greatest fear is being all alone.  

Edited June 28, 2020 by KRIEGLERR

[FielVeredus]

I think the purpose is to not make ND change thing.

Bascially change.org is a platform where it just collect people agreement on certain topic. 99% of times are not going to change thing in direct way.

But it is to spread awareness and make commuunity know that there are 'opinion' like this that many people agree with. That it may affected next game design and story decision after knowing they are missing out of bunch of people. It is to make a 'stance'

And it is way easier to see people genuine opinion about certain topic that is not by someone try to manipulated opinion (like in major review site and/or media/news site).

 

you can hate me all You want but after i saw leak, i decided to just watch someone playthrough instead. and i think the whole story make no sense and ending was so anti-climax that I felt thankful for whoever leak this, not counting that 99% of media seems to ... overclaim on purpose ? becasue it is no way there is 95% review when clearly about half of player hate this game and people that hate also have their valid opinion to do so (not counting hatebait like propaganda ,SJW stuff while it clearly here but it didn't a critical point why people hate on it - but there will be some for sure that think about that). other than that the game is gorgeous.

Edited June 28, 2020 by FielVeredus

[DeepEyes7]

4 hours ago, FielVeredus said:

I think the purpose is to not make ND change thing.

Bascially change.org is a platform where it just collect people agreement on certain topic. 99% of times are not going to change thing in direct way.

But it is to spread awareness and make commuunity know that there are 'opinion' like this that many people agree with. That it may affected next game design and story decision after knowing they are missing out of bunch of people. It is to make a 'stance'

And it is way easier to see people genuine opinion about certain topic that is not by someone try to manipulated opinion (like in major review site and/or media/news site).

 

you can hate me all I want but after i saw leak, i decided to just watch someone playthrough instead. and i think the whole story make no sense and ending was so anti-climax that I felt thankful for whoever leak this, not counting that 99% of media seems to ... overclaim on purpose ? becasue it is no way there is 95% review when clearly about half of player hate this game and people that hate also have their valid opinion to do so (not counting hatebait like propaganda ,SJW stuff while it clearly here but it didn't a critical point why people hate on it - but there will be some for sure that think about that). other than that the game is gorgeous.

 

Clearly half of players hate the game? That's the point, you don't know that (me neither) but not all people really interested/invested in the game is on social media writing about it, even if you take this petition as an indicator of something it is 40.000 signatures against 4.000.000 of games sold in the first 2-3 days (a lot more by now), that's barely 1% and needs to be 50 times that to reach the half of gamers that you claim. I know that not all people that doesnt like the game sign this petitions, but in the same way there is some other people that just enjoy the game and isn't on forums/social media complaining....

[MZK-TrophyHunter]

This game‘s story goes against any basic rules of story telling in sequels, not only in video games, but in fiction in general (books and films included). You don‘t kill the main character at the beginning of a sequel and focus on the person who kills him, trying to make the audience / reader / gamer like her. It‘s like killing Nathan Drake at the beginning of Uncharted 2 and trying to make the gamer like the killer in the rest of the game. This is absurd and creates a story which is a disgusting abomination within its fictional world. Shame on you Naughty Dog for doing this after the masterpiece TLOU1. 

[DeepEyes7]

10 minutes ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

This game‘s story goes against any basic rules of story telling in sequels, not only in video games, but in fiction in general (books and films included). You don‘t kill the main character at the beginning of a sequel and focus on the person who kills him, trying to make the audience / reader / gamer like her. It‘s like killing Nathan Drake at the beginning of Uncharted 2 and trying to make the gamer like the killer in the rest of the game. This is absurd and creates a story which is a disgusting abomination within its fictional world. Shame on you Naughty Dog for doing this after the masterpiece TLOU1. 

 

I could say that at the start of Mass Effect 2 they kill Shepard even faster than Joel here but well, it's the future and they could "revive" him...

 

But you have to ask this too... Did the main character deserved to be killed? Did the "villain" has strong motives to kill the MC? Was something of all this unjustified?

 

I think that ND has been thinking on killing a major character of Uncharted for a long time now , but Uncharted is their safe ground, TLoU was their experiment project but people turn it on their Uncharted safeplace with plotarmor, it was never intended that way... Is like watching GoT expecting for your favorite character to survive...

 

And again, people keep asking for different things and when they got them they just don't accept them...

[TJ_Solo]

1 hour ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

This game‘s story goes against any basic rules of story telling in sequels, not only in video games, but in fiction in general (books and films included). You don‘t kill the main character at the beginning of a sequel and focus on the person who kills him, trying to make the audience / reader / gamer like her. It‘s like killing Nathan Drake at the beginning of Uncharted 2 and trying to make the gamer like the killer in the rest of the game. This is absurd and creates a story which is a disgusting abomination within its fictional world. Shame on you Naughty Dog for doing this after the masterpiece TLOU1. 

 

I've never heard of that rule.

Plus, Joel isn't the main character. ND told you this years ago.

[TheNocturnalOwl]

Hopefully we can get that long awaited reedit of Psycho too. 

[MZK-TrophyHunter]

17 minutes ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

I've never heard of that rule.

Plus, Joel isn't the main character. ND told you this years ago.

You play as Joel for 90 per cent of the game in the TLOU1, thus Joel is the main character of the TLOU1. You never heard of this rule because nobody ever talks about it since abiding by this rule is so obvious. If you manage to find a sequel in books / films / games in which the main character is killed at the beginning of the sequel and in which the focus is placed on making the reader / viewer / gamer like the killer, l will openly say that I‘m wrong. If not, l will stick with my opinion and continue claiming that TLOU2 is an abomination in terms of story telling. It goes against the emotional experience of the TLOU1 - the excellent development of the friendship relationship between Joel and Ellie which is an extreme contrast to the hostile world of TLOU1. This world doesn‘t deserve the sacrifice of Ellie, thus Joel‘s decision to rescue Ellie at all cost makes absolute sense. TLOU2 presents this decision as wrong by killing Joel and focusing on Abby, it therefore destroys the emotional experience of the TLOU1. This is the reason why I felt betrayed and disgusted while playing the TLOU2.

[Elvick_]

On 6/26/2020 at 0:43 PM, Kittet3 said:

Has anything ever actually been changed based on a change.org petition? 

We got Digimon games again in large part due to a petition. 
 

@ topic, what’s actually sad is pretending that petitions are sad when you can just ignore they exist. Which ones of you who are whining here would know it even existed if not for this thread? Wow, what a sad thing for something that impacts you in no way what so ever to exist. You’re so mature and cool to laugh at something meaningless, I hope I can be so cool some day. Who gives a shit. 

[JunPei_TGB]

9 minutes ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

You play as Joel for 90 per cent of the game in the TLOU1, thus Joel is the main character of the TLOU1. You never heard of this rule because nobody ever talks about it since abiding by this rule is so obvious. If you manage to find a sequel in books / films / games in which the main character is killed at the beginning of the sequel and in which the focus is placed on making the reader / viewer / gamer like the killer, l will openly say that I‘m wrong. If not, l will stick with my opinion and continue claiming that TLOU2 is an abomination in terms of story telling. It goes against the emotional experience of the TLOU1 - the excellent development of the friendship relationship between Joel and Ellie which is an extreme contrast to the hostile world of TLOU1. This world doesn‘t deserve the sacrifice of Ellie, thus Joel‘s decision to rescue Ellie at all cost makes absolute sense. TLOU2 presents this decision as wrong by killing Joel and focusing on Abby, it therefore destroys the emotional experience of the TLOU1. This is the reason why I felt betrayed and disgusted while playing the TLOU2.

Telltales Walking dead... where Lee is killed by clementine and you will use her on the sequence.. ???  

 

but the funny fact is, nobody hates her.. hahahahaha

 

 

and by the way, i never consider TLoU1 to even be a masterpiece at all, its just a rubbish because the ending is also anti climax and bored to hell.. plus its clearly a rip-off version of walking dead.. the storyline are almost the same..

Edited June 28, 2020 by JunPei_TGB
add

[majob]

18 minutes ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

 

Joel would be classified as the protagonist but being the protagonist doesn't mean you're the main character. FFXII Vaan is the protagonist but the main character is Ashe. Sherlock Holmes, Watson is the protagonist but Holmes is the main character. Witnessing the story from the point of view from a specific character doesn't mean the story revolves around them.

Edited June 28, 2020 by majob

[funboy1246]

the petition will accomplish nothing. if you don't like how the turned out speak with your wallet. i refused to buy the game til i heard full reviews from sources i trust, when i learned the basic plot and how i feel it did injustice to characters i cared about i boycotted the game. i spoke with my wallet. 60 dollars to naughty dog isn't shit but its the point that counts. same reason i boycotted the 2nd shadow of mordor. and i only have battlefront 2 because it was a free game of the month. played maybe and hour total and was like yep glad i didn't buy this.

[MZK-TrophyHunter]

20 minutes ago, JunPei_TGB said:

Telltales Walking dead... where Lee is killed by clementine and you will use her on the sequence.. ???  

 

but the funny fact is, nobody hates her.. hahahahaha

 

 

and by the way, i never consider TLoU1 to even be a masterpiece at all, its just a rubbish because the ending is also anti climax and bored to hell.. plus its clearly a rip-off version of walking dead.. the storyline are almost the same..

I never played the Walking Dead, so you might be right. But even without being familiar with Walking Dead I agree with your criticism of the simplicity of the TLOS1‘s plot, it is in fact simple: there are two characters who travel from A to B and have to face obstacles. But the character development of Joel and Eliie and the emotional experience it creates is what makes the TLOU1 a masterpiece in my opinion. That’s what l experienced while playing the TLOU1 and I’m sure that‘s what Naughty Dog intended to achieve. TLOU2 puts this experience on its head, by killing Joel and by trying to make the gamer like his killer. By creating such a sequel Naughty Dog contradicts itself in my opinion. As l said before l feel betrayed, but it‘s just an opinion and you don‘t have to agree with it. 

[Livingstone7728]

50 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

We got Digimon games again in large part due to a petition. 
 

@ topic, what’s actually sad is pretending that petitions are sad when you can just ignore they exist. Which ones of you who are whining here would know it even existed if not for this thread? Wow, what a sad thing for something that impacts you in no way what so ever to exist. You’re so mature and cool to laugh at something meaningless, I hope I can be so cool some day. Who gives a shit. 

The REALLY sad part is people making pointless petitions when they could ignore this game exists...

Edited June 28, 2020 by Livingstone7728

[DeepEyes7]

6 minutes ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

TLOU2 puts this experience on its head, by killing Joel and by trying to make the gamer like his killer. By creating such a sequel Naughty Dog contradicts itself in my opinion. As l said before l feel betrayed, but it‘s just an opinion and you don‘t have to agree with it. 

 

ND is not trying to make you like the killer of Joel, they just showed you her perspective on all this misery, it's your decision if you like her or not.

[TJ_Solo]

50 minutes ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

You play as Joel for 90 per cent of the game in the TLOU1, thus Joel is the main character of the TLOU1. You never heard of this rule because nobody ever talks about it since abiding by this rule is so obvious. If you manage to find a sequel in books / films / games in which the main character is killed at the beginning of the sequel and in which the focus is placed on making the reader / viewer / gamer like the killer, l will openly say that I‘m wrong. If not, l will stick with my opinion and continue claiming that TLOU2 is an abomination in terms of story telling. It goes against the emotional experience of the TLOU1 - the excellent development of the friendship relationship between Joel and Ellie which is an extreme contrast to the hostile world of TLOU1. This world doesn‘t deserve the sacrifice of Ellie, thus Joel‘s decision to rescue Ellie at all cost makes absolute sense. TLOU2 presents this decision as wrong by killing Joel and focusing on Abby, it therefore destroys the emotional experience of the TLOU1. This is the reason why I felt betrayed and disgusted while playing the TLOU2.

 

and? ND already stated that the first game was about Ellie and her becoming the protagonist.  Old news as hell.

Nothing you said supports that odd "rule of sequels" still. If no one talks about it and no one was aware of it until this NEW hate against TLOU2 came up then it isn't a rule. It is a fictional creation for this situation.

TLOU2 continues the story of Joel and Ellie. It deepens it the game continues the emotional experience of finding new friends such as Tess, Bill, Henry and Sam with the introduction and building up of Yara, Lev, Jesse, and Dina. 
TLOU2 does an excellent job of continuing all of the themes found in the first game.

 

Sacrificing the world for Ellie was a big decision that isn't "right" and never was viewed as the best outcome for the story. Of course, if you only viewed the game's story as only being about Joel and Ellie then I can see it making sense. You deeply missed the point. 

 

[BlackSabre500]

@MZK-TrophyHunter @TJ_Solo I just looked up the "Rule of Sequels" and saw nothing that states a main character should live in a sequel, but i have found one rule that is "Don't be afraid to let a beloved character go." Killing off a character isn't a bad thing if it doesn't hurt the plot or make the previous game's plot pointless, for example:

Spoiler

In Terminator: Dark Fate people were mad at the movie for killing off John Connor, people thought they were mad for removing him for another character, but it was it was cause it made the previous movies pointless.

So Joel's death doesn't hurt the plot nor made TLOU1's plot pointless.

[Abby_TheLastofUs]

Sticking to just video games, the protagonist in Prototype is the antagonist in Prototype 2. 

 

Spoiler

The player has to kill him in the end

 

The Mission Impossible movie was controversial among fans, because the antagonist was the protagonist from the old TV show. Horror movie sequels have been killing off the protagonist of the original since forever.

[TomataEighty9]

4 hours ago, MZK-TrophyHunter said:

This game‘s story goes against any basic rules of story telling in sequels, not only in video games, but in fiction in general (books and films included). You don‘t kill the main character at the beginning of a sequel and focus on the person who kills him, trying to make the audience / reader / gamer like her. It‘s like killing Nathan Drake at the beginning of Uncharted 2 and trying to make the gamer like the killer in the rest of the game. This is absurd and creates a story which is a disgusting abomination within its fictional world. Shame on you Naughty Dog for doing this after the masterpiece TLOU1. 

 

Who made this "rule"?

 

I find it rather refreshing, that Naughty dog does this. The fact that they show that revenge and killing WILL have a price, is good storytelling.

 

It's okay that YOU don't like the story, but don't make up "rules" for story telling... You can tell any story you want... The story makes perfect sense. People are just mad they didn't get exactly what they wanted.