How does the community want the "PS5 OS Autopop 'Glitch'" cheater reports to be handled?

[Nebnit]

Stupid question, but does the "requirement of hiding the games" option mean they need to hide them immediately when they notice the issue or only when their games get reported?

Edited October 15, 2022 by Nebnit

[Bloke]

13 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

@enaysoft

@iXanon

@Beyondthegrave07

 

What prevents them from unhiding it a week/month/etc later after getting told to hide it the first time?  While requiring them to hide it sounds like a good middle ground, it can turn into a game of cat and mouse. 

 

2nd report gets flagged? 3rd? Who keeps track of that?

Plus, please correct me if I'm wrong, but once a flag is lifted, it can't be reapplied by non-crt, meaning it has to be manually reported and making it more of a job for crt.

 

I think it has to be all or nothing to keep it simple?

Once someone has their flag lifted they can't be reported again. Which is an issue in itself as some players don't publicly dispute and can PM CRT, potentially making up some garbage to avoid having others stack evidence against them in the public forum.

[breakXedge]

4 minutes ago, TriadThunder-X said:

So players that had 'Big Leagues' and 'Gone with the Wind' unlocked by others should get a free pass? I mean it's not their fault and they were unaware after all.

If it's out of your control, yes, they should. That means I cannot play some games because I can be flagged, it's just idiotic. They can implement some kind of whitelist where you don't get flagged but you also don't get points to the leaderboard, that would not punish anyone.

Edited October 15, 2022 by breakXedge

[MonaSaxPayne]

3 minutes ago, TriadThunder-X said:

So players that had 'Big Leagues' and 'Gone with the Wind' unlocked by others should get a free pass? I mean it's not their fault and they were unaware after all.

 

many ppl feel these players shouldn't be flagged

 

which is where the whole debate of white listing certain games came from

[breakXedge]

4 minutes ago, Nebnit said:

Stupid question, but does the "requirement of hiding the games" option mean they need to hide them immediately when they notice the issue or only when their games get reported?

Afaik if you get flagged, hiding the game just gives you access to the leaderboard, but the flag stays.

[D-E-U-S-X]

Games with impossible timestamps should be hidden to prevent exploiting this bug as an excuse for actual cheating later.

[ChromeSaw]

1 hour ago, iXanon said:

 

Then you fallback on the current leeway of "three strikes and you're out". If you exhaust that, I have little sympathy - bug or not.

 

I have literally zero interest in speedruns or paid platinums, but how many chances do you want to give to abuse the system? Where do we draw the line? Shall we just whitelist hacked CODs and GTA5 while we're here?

 

If this goes through as an unlimited thing I'll be playing on closed source servers, ranking be damned..

never suggested anything at all about GTA5 or COD? completely different circumstances mate

[AJ_-_808]

18 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

 

That's a very good point mate.

 

By the way, under the current system is it already a possibility that people are doing that?

 

-> Be reported for a game

-> hide it

-> get unbanned

-> a few months while nobody is looking unhide it

Under the current system, the flag doesn't go away upon hiding. It sticks to the account unless lifted by crt.

 

If a flagged game is hidden, they go back to the leaderboard. If they unhide it later, they're automatically pulled off the leaderboard again

 

Edit

I think, since this sounds like a potential manually operated white-list, the already built in flag mechanisms cant/won't work 

16 minutes ago, TriadThunder-X said:

Once someone has their flag lifted they can't be reported again. Which is an issue in itself as some players don't publicly dispute and can PM CRT, potentially making up some garbage to avoid having others stack evidence against them in the public forum.

 

Also sounds like a potential spamming of crt inbox when a bunch of people all report someone for unhiding at the same time

Edited October 15, 2022 by AJ_-_808

[Amalrik69]

These kind of situations should be unlimited but should as well be requested to be hidden. I believe it is a good compromise.

 

Getting flagged for an OS bug feels so unfair, when you know that such obvious cheating accounts can stay months on leaderboards before getting removed (can’t be reported and don’t appear on game leaderboards - only on general leaderboards).

https://psnprofiles.com/TrophyWR

 

[Merty]

They definitely should be removed from the leaderboards.

Edited October 28, 2022 by MickeyMixLipa-

[Rick_Sanchez]

I chose unlimited without having to hide. This is an OS bug that some people may not know about and it would be wrong to flag them as a cheater when it wasn't something they intently preformed. 

[Nebnit]

1 hour ago, breakXedge said:

Afaik if you get flagged, hiding the game just gives you access to the leaderboard, but the flag stays.

 

What I mean is options #4 and #5 don't make too much sense. They would have to hide the games anyway, why go through an unnecessary process before doing so? Unless the concept is to let even more people roam free with a pile of shit on their profile until they get caught, encouraged further by the fact that they can repeat this unlimited times.

[Rally-Vincent---]

I think two games without having to hide them would be a good compromise. If it's an OS bug, then it's not your fault. So one time off for the first time, and one game off for the repetition that has to make you know that the bug was not related to the specific game. AT this point, you'd expect leaderboard competitors to research what's wrong and how to avoid it.

[visvoer18]

welp wasnt planning on posthing here again but didnt expect this topic either

 

however this glitch CAN NOT BE AVOIDED

 

they keep saying it can but they never tell how  (wonder why)

 

 

[HuntingFever]

Unpopular or not, I voted to keep the current status quo of having to hide all lists with impossible timestamps, even if the cause is this bug that Sony should have fixed ages ago. If it's decided to start letting people off the hook because of this issue, you may as well just get rid of the leaderboards all together because they will be an even bigger farce than they already are.

Edited October 15, 2022 by HuntingFever
Update.

[Baker]

2 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Better 100 guilty people go free, than 1 innocent person is falsely punished. 

 

I hope this is the first step in whitelisting other things like BO2 too. I’m all for removing obvious cheaters, even though I don’t care about leaderboards. 
 

I think in the end it all comes down to well, the quote above. Which I wanted to post below here. Damn phone. Which has been my stance on this for forever.

[steel6burgh]

The way I look at it is it's the EZPZ games that a pop real fast that seems to be effected by this bug.  Now why I hate to see people who didn't actually cheat labeled a cheater and think it' s horrible thing to have happen I also believe that everybody should take a bit of responsibility to preserve the integrity of the leaderboards,  Not that the leaderboards have a lot of integrity as is but at least we can track fastest completion on games, 1st to 100%, 1st to platinum, average rarity and stuff like that.  Once we go down the road of letting something like this pass too often that we will not only will it be the top of the leaderboard stat that is all messed up but it will effect all these other stats as well.  People will take advantage of this situation and keep in mind our cheater removal team isn't a paid team it isn't their job to sit around all day and make judgement calls, it has to be one way or the other.

 

Now as if the EZPZ community hasn't diminished the integrity of the leaderboard enough with all the jumping bullshit games they can't take the responsibility to take measures to keep this glitch from happening?   Now all the other stats will be effected too? Everything to appease the effortless and diminish any reasonable competition it seems.  I will agree with @Baker if we are gonna let this pass then we really should let the BO2 and GTA games slide.  After all those people are putting forth some real effort and labeling them a cheater through no fault of their own is no different than this.  

[Bloke]

7 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

 I will agree with @Baker if we are gonna let this pass then we really should let the BO2 and GTA games slide.  After all those people are putting forth some real effort and labeling them a cheater through no fault of their own is no different than this.  

No, we might as well whitelist all other games that have had online services terminated as well. Why stop at just 2 games? Might as well allow CFW and save file usage for those games as well.

 

Out of all the disputes, i was under the assumption it was up to the account holder to hold responsibility of their account. 'Oh my pet goat abused the OS bug, please unflag'. Cant wait.

Edited October 15, 2022 by TriadThunder-X

[YellowFever-AU]

This shouldn't even be being discussed.

At the end of the day you can't punish people for spamming easy games because Sony are incompetent and have allowed syncing to become messed up.

How could you possibly moderate it anyway? The thought I have no idea what this glitch even is and you could potentially flag me off the leaderboards because some games synced at 0 seconds is pretty disgusting.

This discussion isn't pretraining to longer games because you would presume these games would be unlocked with appropriate timestamps.

Again, i don't know how this glitch works but if its so totally random that it would be impossible to tell someone spamming jumping burger vs someone who unlocks COD in 0 seconds then I think you should just give it up as a bad joke and wait for a fix 



 

[Nebnit]

55 minutes ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

I think two games without having to hide them would be a good compromise. If it's an OS bug, then it's not your fault. So one time off for the first time, and one game off for the repetition that has to make you know that the bug was not related to the specific game. AT this point, you'd expect leaderboard competitors to research what's wrong and how to avoid it.

 

Unless you already know about the bug, you just don't care and leave a trail of glitchy mess all over the leaderboards before you get the inevitable "warning".

 

I say this with the obvious potential of being labelled as an ass-licker but I really feel sorry for the CRT considering what's on the horizon for them.

[steel6burgh]

7 minutes ago, TriadThunder-X said:

No, we might as well whitelist all other games that have had online services terminated as well. Why stop at just 2 games? Might as well allow CFW and save file usage for those games as well.

 

Out of all the disputes i was under the assumption it was up to the account holder to hold responsibility of their account. 'Oh my pet goat abused the OS bug, please unflag'. Cant wait.

Hey i agree i really don't think those games should be whitelisted i'm just saying if we let the EZPZ stuff go we should let that shit go to because a lot of people just loaded into a public lobby that was modded through no fault of their own.  this EZPZ bug can be avoided, from what i heard, if they just wait a few minutes after turning the ps5 on before they start popping trophies.  The ps5 is the latest and most sophisticated home gaming console to date and it can't even handle the trophies popping at the rate they do, if that doesn't tell you something is wrong with the current trophy system I don't know what does.  I'm not advocating we should let all these people off.  You should  read everything I wrote instead of bits and pieces.

Edited October 15, 2022 by steel6burgh

[You]

19 minutes ago, HuntingFever said:

Unpopular or not, I voted to keep the current status quo of having to hide all lists with impossible timestamps, even if the cause is this bug that Sony should have fixed ages ago. If it's decided to start letting people off the hook because of this issue, you may as well just get rid of the leaderboards all together because they will be a complete an utter farce.

 

You see at some points I find this whole conversation kind of confusing and often wonder what we are banning people for.

 

Are we banning people because of cheaters, or due to impossible timestamps (which isn't always due to cheating, but almost always is)

 

For example Scott Pilgrim on my list, if you look

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/12138-scott-pilgrim-vs-the-world-the-game/enaysoft?order=date

 

One Man Army
Clear the game in single player on the “Supreme Master” difficulty setting.
1 week, 1 day, 12 hours (+6 days, 23 hours, 8 minutes)

 

Dirty Trick
Defeat an enemy by throwing an object at him while he’s already down.
1 week, 1 day, 12 hours (+1 second)

 

I complete the game on hardest difficulty setting and then during the ending sequence 1 second later I get a trophy for defeating an enemy while throwing an object at them.

This is impossible! This guy needs his impossible timestamps flagging right now!

 

Except what happened was the game crashed at the title screen, and awarded me random trophies for no reason, which I detail here in this thread and also film my screen where I show that I have a trophy pop, during the PS4 crash window lol.

 

 

Probably nobody is gonna get the same crash I did on Scott Pilgrim. Is that list allowed to stand because I have recorded evidence of the crash to prove I didn't cheat, or maybe it's not allowed because nobody else can replicate the issue? I still haven't completed Scott Pilgrim on the hardest setting but yet I have the trophy, is that unfair, does that make me a cheater? Or maybe it's Karma because on some other games in the past, a trophy glitched and so I had to do said thing twice.

 

We already have a ton of dodgy games allowed, such as Buzz TV Quiz on PS3 which we allow, because erm well I dunno, the game has a glitch that can't be fixed? But if we allow that, and my trophy list hasn't been flagged, why shouldn't we allow with dodgy lists on a PS5 OS bug. If we allow it on hardware, why not software? Rolling back to V1.00 of softare to exploit glitches, gameplay tweaks is allowed.

 

We already have known glitches on certain games not required to be hidden, so why do we have to do it here on PS5?

 

If a glitch like Buzz TV which can't easily be fixed is allowed, the hacked lobbies on Grand Theft Auto 5, surely those should be allowed as well? That's also software related.

 

Presumably, the whole point of banning cheaters is to be fair to other players who got those trophies legitimately, after all this is a contest and those that earn trophies faster than others are cheating and put genuine players at an advantage.

 

However we're at the point where, why even fucking bother, or care?

 

I'm serious.

For every dispute about GTA5 online hacked lobbies where a genuinely innocent user has had to hide a trophy list or be removed from the leaderboards on the game they worked hard on and due to no fault of their own.
 

Even if you did cheat, what advantage have you even gained when on average every single day there are 3 new EZPZ plats to just buy and complete within 10 minutes?

We're at the point where cheating takes too much time, it's just not efficient. This is like squabbling over breadcrumbs.

 

May as well just use your time buying EZPZ games and playing those for 10 minutes (which isn't cheating) and just keep paying your insurance premium of EZPZ pops to keep your lead and just hope your rivals give up paying before you.

 

And as time goes on, this is just going to get worse.

 

I know what I am saying contradicts what I was saying a few hours earlier. But I do wonder what constitutes cheating sometimes. It feels like there are a lot of exception to the rules.

 

Let the whitelisting begin!

 

[Bloke]

3 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Hey i agree i really don't think those games should be whitelisted i'm just saying if we let the EZPZ stuff go we should let that shit go to because a lot of people just loaded into a public lobby that was modded through no fault of their own

Yeah I get what you're saying, I honestly think that if you're going to allow one thing, then everything must be allowed. That is the point that im concerned about, because just say more issues arise with the operating software, potentially more trophy errors could occur, allowing people to get to the top of fastest leaderboards.

[StacFace92]

I think this is comparable to the hacked lobby situation on PS3 and they should be treated the same. In both cases, trophies autopop against your will. In both cases it's exploitable. In both cases, you can avoid it if you know about it beforehand.

 

Personally I think there's two potential ways forward, to be applied to both scenarios. 

 

(a) Don't flag them, on the basis that the person earning the trophies was playing normally as intended. Exceptions could be made if someone is found to be purposely exploiting the issue, but this would need to be added as a warning to the leaderboard rules to be fair.

 

(b) Update the leaderboard rules to specifically cover this issue and tell people exactly how to avoid it. Even then, I think there should be some sort of grace period & announcements on the site to give people time to learn of the update before flags start to stick. 

 

1 hour ago, visvoer18 said:

welp wasnt planning on posthing here again but didnt expect this topic either

 

however this glitch CAN NOT BE AVOIDED

 

they keep saying it can but they never tell how  (wonder why)

 

 

 

I haven't experienced it myself but I've seen a few people say it's caused by playing a game on PS5 before the trophy list has loaded, so you avoid it by waiting for the trophy list to show up on the PS5 menu before launching the game. 

[steel6burgh]

2 minutes ago, TriadThunder-X said:

Yeah I get what you're saying, I honestly think that if you're going to allow one thing, then everything must be allowed. That is the point that im concerned about, because just say more issues arise with the operating software, potentially more trophy errors could occur, allowing people to get to the top of fastest leaderboards.

yeah the problem is if we let this go it just opens the door to all sorts of cheating and puts too much stress on the cheat team that they don't deserve to have to deal with all because people can't take some caution to avoid the bug.  Not good for anyone. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by steel6burgh