Suggestion - Auto-pop PS5 trophies should be removed from 'Fastest' leaderboards

[turniplord]

I'm not a massive trophy hunter, I only go for the platinum in games I'm really enjoying and want to experience everything the developers ask us to via the trophies. But, every time a PS5 version of a game comes out, all you see on here are threads of people asking if you can auto-unlock every trophy by importing your PS4 save.

Although this is great for those who like trophies, it's a pain in the backside for those who want to play the game legit (as in, play the game from start to finish without importing a save) and try to make it onto the leaderboards on this site.

So, what I'm suggesting is, can't the site be updated where games that auto-unlock can be flagged so that those who unlock all, or a bunch of trophies within a few minutes are not included in the 'Fastest' leaderboard? I'm not saying flag the gamer or ban them, just don't include their 100% time or their position in the first 50 people to unlock the platinum.

As this site is great for looking at stats like that, and a lot of people strive to try and appear on the lists, it just feels unfair and counter-productive if the PS5 version lists are dominated by people who managed to platinum the game on the PS4 and then simply move the save over.

Just look at the Avengers list: https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/12314-marvels-avengers - it's literally full of people unlocking the platinum in one second. How is this fair on a website dedicated to showcasing your trophy achievements? 


I know those who are really into their trophies won't be happy with this suggestion, as they like easy and quick trophies (as shown in Visual Novels when they sometimes skip the entire game to obtain the platinum, rather than actually playing the game), but those who are proud of their trophy achievements, and spent the time playing the game to obtain them legitimately, must surely be a bit annoyed with this current trend of the leaderboards and stats being screwed up by auto-unlocked trophies?


*Edited to change it to only speak for the 'Fastest' list. The 'First' list could just be due to someone grabbing a copy early from the store or having faster internet so they can download it quicker. In my case, yeah, I get games weeks in advance sometimes, but I've suggested maybe we can flag we got the game early so people can choose to remove our stats from the 'First' list if they choose to do so. 

However, just because someone gets it early, it doesn't mean they'll be the fastest. I, for example, often spend 2-3x longer than the average person to get the platinum pre-release due to there being no known glitches, guides, or walkthroughs, not to mention some games have cryptic trophies which are hard to work out. But, I earn the trophies by fully playing the games - unless importing unlocks a bunch of trophies (which I'll be happy to not appear on leaderboards in those cases). 

As I've said elsewhere, it's like submitting a speedrun, which is full of glitches to get a super-fast time, to a leaderboard for a 100% no glitches leaderboard. It messes with the stats and makes the whole thing pointless as people can no longer use it to judge how fast it actually is to fully complete the game due to the inconsistent listings on there. How to spot? Maybe the backend can monitor if a number of trophies are unlocked at the same time? I'm not sure - it was just a personal suggestion...*

Edited March 24, 2021 by turniplord

[DrBloodmoney]

I think purely in terms of the ‘quickest achievers’ leaderboards, this is a good idea - and should theoretically be possible to do by just excluding any times under a certain threshhold - 5mins or so?

 

Nothing wrong with a legit autopop - it’s part of the system - but it is a little unfair to those who go for the speedy times on those boards (of which I’m not one, btw)

[HuntingFever]

Unless you've been a naughty boy or girl and hacked your trophies, I have no issue with auto-popped lists appearing on the leaderboards. I have no love for trophy hunting anymore, which is why I retired from it last Summer but I'm not going to begrudge someone a place on the leaderboards because they auto-popped a load of trophies for a game.

Edited March 19, 2021 by HuntingFever
Update.

[HusKy]

2 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

5mins or so?

 

That wouldn't help. You would see ton of people getting 99% in 1 second and then popping 1 easy trophy (by actually doing that task) 5 minutes later.

 

Many of these issues could have been avoided if Sony did not introduce breaking changes in PS5 trophy lists but here we are.

 

Fun fact: The site currently does not show people who got 100% in "0 seconds".

[laptop9]

i agree with this as i dont like auto popping trophies but the key problem is how to police it, certain games like crash 4 dont auto unlcock everything, whats to stop someone doing half the game of what auto pops and doing the rest legit. I think the mechanising needs to go completely and this is a sony thing not a psnprofiles thing, but unfortunately its a tool within the games and therefore it is aloud. It takes away from some of the skill dependencies and is frustrating to see, set your own goals with your trophies and youll never be in the wrong

[DrBloodmoney]

6 minutes ago, HusKy said:

 

That wouldn't help. You would see ton of people getting 99% in 1 second and then popping 1 easy trophy (by actually doing that task) 5 minutes later.

 

Many of these issues could have been avoided if Sony did not introduce breaking changes in PS5 trophy lists but here we are.

 

Fun fact: The site currently does not show people who got 100% in "0 seconds".

 

Oh, I didn't realise it was possible to autopop only select trophies - i thought it was basically an 'all-or-nothing' deal. I guess if that's possible then it would alway be left with a workaround.

 

 

TBH, the 'fastest 100%' leaderboards are fairly flawed anyways - in a way that is not the fault of the site - due to dlc releases. 

 

There was a time when I had the fastest completion time for Cities Skylines - not because I was in any way the fastest player, but simply because I started the game later, and so the dlc (up to that point) was all released already, therefore jumping me artificially ahead of all the much faster people who had completed the main game prior to the release of the dlc and did that stuff later on. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[thefourfoldroot]

4 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Oh, I didn't resale it was possible to autopop only select trophies - i thought it was basically an 'all-or-nothing' deal. I guess if that's possible then it would alway be left with a workaround.

I guess someone could get one trophy, wait a bit, then import their save. This would get around any time requirement.

[You]

There's been autopopping for games as far back as PS3 and I remember cross saves being a thing when Vita came out, PS3 and Vita repeated trophy lists on Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 for example.

 

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle now.

 

On the one hand, I think it makes a mockery of the "fastest" achiever system on this site.

 

Since all you get is fastest completion time of 1-2 seconds. Who knows in reality who did the game fastest anymore..

[DrBloodmoney]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

I guess someone could get one trophy, wait a bit, then import their save. This would get around any time requirement.

 

yes, you're absolutely right - I hadn't considered that. 

 

I suspect that most people autopopping wouldn't bother do that, as most are just autopopping their trophies for their overall score, and are not deliberately trying to cheese a 'fastest time' - most would not care at all if their time was excluded from the 'fastest' boards, but you are right - there is no flawless systematic way to account for all eventualities, and all systems could be worked-around or abused.

[MilanYildirim]

Auto popping has always been a thing, did you forget Sound Shapes? What's the next step lol? Ratalika games should be removed from LB?

[Facas]

It's a console/game mechanic not a hack so no. They should not be removed.

[NamoPh]

It would be unrealistic to want to differentiate the standard leaderboard from the way the PSN level is calculated, but I agree that there is a clear case to be made for the fastest achievers. Though such an undertaking would require manual policing by a team equivalent to the current CRT. On the other hand, it would take a lot of the initial load out of their hands if they could look at a game's current fastest times and determine the cut-off point where someone obviously auto-popped.

 

On the other other hand, the way it's currently displayed helps reveal obvious cheaters, though I'm not sure how much that would matter if they were prevented from clogging up the fastest times by default.

[Sikutai]

1 hour ago, turniplord said:

obtain them legitimately, must surely be a bit annoyed with this current trend of the leaderboards and stats being screwed up by auto-unlocked trophies?

 

Auto Pop = legitim too.

[Zbir_Vladimir]

Honestly, if you're a gamer who just play games he likes I'd advise to ignore leaderboards completely and focus on gaming/completion rate (or whatever you like in trophies).

Leaderboards will always be skewed by Ratalaika/stacks/easy games/auto pops anyway so I dont treat them too seriously as I refuse to play most of those.

Fun fact is noone really cares too much about others trophy accomplishments anyway

[DrBloodmoney]

@turniplord OP - I would suggest changing the topic title to read "Auto-pop PS5 trophies should be removed from fastest times leaderboards", as - if I understood you correctly - that is the leaderboards you are referring to.

 

I thinka lot of responses here are assuming you are suggesting removing from the overall leaderboards entirely, not just the fastest times ones 

Edited March 19, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[DaivRules]

While I’m not for removing auto-pop entries on the fastest leaderboard, I would like an indicator on each games fastest leaderboard if auto-pop is possible. That should stop a lot of threads being created and might help someone understand before they go for a fastest time what they’re up against.

[DavySuicide]

I am not the kind of guy who autopops games a lot I even try to avoid stacking regions since it's pointless for me to stack a 15 minute game 6 times but to take the crash example ( just my personal opinion ) this game was so much work, took so much dedication and was so goddamn hard that I really like to get the plat twice since I did the whole stuff legit which took me around the 100 hour mark. But I love the ps5 version and play it with my daughter for fun even after the platinum. From the gaming site it's cool to get an upgraded version 4 feee.

Double platinum is just a nice gimmick imo but overall I'm absolutely with you and I really hope that this flood of autpopping will stop. I go one step further and say I would be glad if there will only be on ( or two ) lists of a game in the future. And yes, 50 first achievers should only count for gamers who did the whole game legit, I agree but I guess it might be difficult to do.

[JoesusHCrust]

I know it's perfectly legitimate but it feels 'cheaty'. There's probably not much that can be done about it, as auto-pops are allowed so it would be unfair to punish people for doing something completely legal. Yes though, it would be nice to remove auto-popped lists from fastest achievement times. 

[Quink666]

3 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I think purely in terms of the ‘quickest achievers’ leaderboards, this is a good idea - and should theoretically be possible to do by just excluding any times under a certain threshhold - 5mins or so?

 

5 minutes wouldn’t work. If you check my Marvels Avenger PS5 autopop it auto popped all but 2 trophies so I had to reload an earlier save to be able to redo the last 2 trophies.  My platinum time is over 2 hours.  You would have to have a certain time for each game. 
Which means more work for the already limited staff on this site. 
 

But I agree auto pops don’t belong on leaderboard at all. They should remove first achievers as well since it is also pointless. Only thing first achievers shows you is who got the game early and who didn’t. 

[DrBloodmoney]

26 minutes ago, Quink666 said:

5 minutes wouldn’t work. If you check my Marvels Avenger PS5 autopop it auto popped all but 2 trophies so I had to reload an earlier save to be able to redo the last 2 trophies.  My platinum time is over 2 hours.  You would have to have a certain time for each game. 
Which means more work for the already limited staff on this site. 
 

But I agree auto pops don’t belong on leaderboard at all. They should remove first achievers as well since it is also pointless. Only thing first achievers shows you is who got the game early and who didn’t. 

Yeah - basically this isn’t an issue of opinion as to legitimacy- even people who argue autopop are legitimate generally (of which I am one), pretty much all agree autopops don’t belong on the fastest or first boards - the problem is cases like you cite - it’s probably too labour intensive to fix.

 

It’s not even really a case of trying to find a method that isn’t exploitable - as I don’t know of anyone who is genuinely trying to pass off an auto-popped completion as a legit ‘fast time’ (I can’t imagine anyone is that much of a wido!) - it’s just that there are so many weird or edge cases from game to game

Edited March 19, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Boooda]

I feel like this is a time sensitive issue. In lets say 3 years, will this still be a thing you can even do? Hard to say, but this only exists because of the fact that theres fuck all for PS5 games and devs are just essentially porting their already released games onto PS5, and even then these auto pop scenarios aren't always the case (see Yakuza 7, Immortals, etc.). I think this will be a non-issue soon enough. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Boooda

[starcrunch061]

4 hours ago, turniplord said:

I know those who are really into their trophies won't be happy with this suggestion, as you strive off easy and quick trophies (as shown in Visual Novels when you skip the entire game to obtain the platinum rather than actually playing the game), but those who are actually proud of their trophy achievements, and spent the time playing the game to obtain them legitimately, must surely be a bit annoyed with this current trend of the leaderboards and stats being screwed up by auto-unlocked trophies?

 

What a shame. You had a pretty good idea, but had to spoil it by ascending the soapbox.

 

In any case, you can come down now.

[Quink666]

20 minutes ago, Boooda said:

I feel like this is a time sensitive issue. I think this will be a non-issue soon enough  

You are probably right. As game development for PS4 wind down this will probably become a non issue. Or at the very least only a very few games will support it. 
Auto popping is a side effect of backward compatibility but thank how we got BC at least. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ratalaika start implementing PS4 to PS5 auto pop trophies just to sell more garbage.  Imagine auto popping all the Ratalaika games you own on PS4 on the PS5. 
That would be a sad day. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Quink666

[sepheroithisgod]

I like the suggestion, but don't think it's possible to implement it without a lot of work.

 

Take Crash Bandicoot 4 for example, 28 of the trophies auto-pop and you can spend 2-3 hrs cleaning up the others to pop the platinum. That time can be stretched to any amount, so it's not as simple as just inserting a cut-off point to remove someone from the fastest achievers.

 

That said, as you mentioned in the OP these auto-pop threads really need to stop.

[ThatMuttGuy]

33 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

What a shame. You had a pretty good idea, but had to spoil it by ascending the soapbox.

 

In any case, you can come down now.

 

Point to me where he's wrong?