Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

[EightBitArtist]

6 hours ago, Stardroid said:

People who say they can't see / feel the difference between 30 and 60 or either legally blind or legally blind

 

[mega-tallica]

58 minutes ago, Ilzakia said:

This is one of the dumbest debates in gaming.  Of course 60 FPS is going to look better.  30 FPS is fine.  Everytime this comes up, the little kids who parrot Redditors get up in arms.  And it's always the same thing.  Give it a rest, if you don't like 30 FPS don't play it.  Move on to something else.  You aren't going to convince anyone to not play 30 FPS, except maybe other children.

 

Many other communities have a similar common debate. TV aficionados arguing about resolution. 1080p versus 4K, 4K versus 8K, etc. Music fans and audiophiles arguing over bit rates. 256kbps versus 320kbps, 320kbps versus FLAC. Gaming community has framerate, that's their thing. 

 

It's all the same points made in every one. The context is the same just replace the topic. 

[The Alchemist]

51 minutes ago, Titanomachy_75 said:

true there is no difference just a fan boys where told its different lol

Most newer tvs nowadays have features where 30 fps is smooth as butter and plays as you are playing 60 or 90 fps ...So, most times not if your lagging in 2022 or 2023 its not 30 fps lol its your internet 10 out of 10 times!!! With tvs nowadays no excuses to be honest! 

 

We're fanboys because we have functioning eyeballs?

 

TVs have features that make 30fps seem like 90fps?

 

Frame rates are linked to your internet speed? 

 

What did I just read. I don't know where to begin...

 

 

[Markemmanuel]

5 hours ago, Titanomachy_75 said:

true there is no difference just a fan boys where told its different lol

Most newer tvs nowadays have features where 30 fps is smooth as butter and plays as you are playing 60 or 90 fps ...So, most times not if your lagging in 2022 or 2023 its not 30 fps lol its your internet 10 out of 10 times!!! With tvs nowadays no excuses to be honest! 

Inferior eyes alert

[Zephrese]

60fps is always preferable, but 30fps - so long as it's consistent - is fine by me if a consistent 60fps can't be achieved for whatever reason. Don't lose sleep over it either way.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Zephrese

[Z1MZUM]

My TV does 120hz, Just not on any PS5 or PS4 games except maybe warzone but who cares. I need one of these magic tv's that makes 30fps look like 60, Oh except this doesn't exist.

 

We want to focus on new games, not the games for consumers type but actual new games. 

[MatThaRiPP3R84]

I'd wait for a pro if i couldn't get 60 in the games i wanna play, not sure i could shelve silent hill if that ran at 30 but anything else i'd wait. I couldn't care less about eye candy really. 

[Boorish]

6 hours ago, Titanomachy_75 said:

Most newer tvs nowadays have features where 30 fps is smooth as butter and plays as you are playing 60 or 90 fps

wut?

[mcnichoj]

Question: Why is game performance being held back?

Answer: People are dumb.

Anyone that believed we'd never see loading screens again were sipping the Kool Aid too hard.

Developers had a hard time optimizing games last gen, we're just gonna believe all of a sudden they figured it out just because we have stronger hardware? No because they're gonna keep trying to push the resolution and amount of poly's on screen and so FPS will suffer. It took two console generations after the fact for us to finally be able to play the Xbox 360 versions of GTAIV and Ninja Gaiden 2 at a smooth 60 FPS on the Xbox Series.

[Z1MZUM]

Digital Foundry are also massive dorks and hard for me to believe, Remember the yes you need the overpriced over specced nvme for the PS5? Like many things, WRONG. No doubt a follow up video which is completely opposite  will emerge as time goes on with no consequence to their current claims.

 

The true downfall for this gen is lack of games, My preference is frames but if the game is good it doesn't matter.

 

DF really want to say PC is better, they always will so let them eat Cheetos while the bald one calls his mom for a lift, He saw some boobies and got frightened.

[Prometheous101]

16 hours ago, SnowxSakura said:

It is very noticeable when you can switch between quality and performance on games. 30 FPS is choppy compared to 60 fps

Choppy performance is choppy performance. Nothing to do with 30 vs 60 fps.

Games being coded badly and then having "choppy" performance due to bad coding, vs console not being able to take it due to lack of power.

 

[AJ_Radio]

36 minutes ago, Z1MZUM said:

The true downfall for this gen is lack of games, My preference is frames but if the game is good it doesn't matter.

It’s just a bunch of games that the PS4 already has, and the actual new games are goddamn remakes. 
 

I wanted to puke in my soup when Guerrilla Games announced they were going to remake Horizon Zero Dawn. 
 

You killed off Killzone, but you decide to remake an already massively successful game? 
 

This industry is a joke.

[MrShovelware]

11 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

I disagree entirely. I don’t care that much about graphical fidelity, but if I can get the option of 60 FPS then I will take that the moment it’s available. 
 

Unless you’re strictly playing slower turn based strategy games on PC and some indies, 60 FPS is a very welcoming change.

you should play on PC.

[Akrioz]

40 FPS modes on a 120hz TV is actually a great middle ground. I hope more games will take this approach. The only downside is you need a pricey TV or monitor. 

[AJ_Radio]

21 minutes ago, MrShovelware said:

you should play on PC.

 

I already do mate. It's just something that plays secondary to trophy hunting for the time being.

[fbdbh]

1 hour ago, AJ_Radio said:

I wanted to puke in my soup when Guerrilla Games announced they were going to remake Horizon Zero Dawn. 
 

 

They never announced this.

[You]

Has anyone ever played Sonic Adventure 1 and then Sonic Adventure 2 on Dreamcast? The difference is obvious.

 

Maybe you have a cheap TV or one that doesn't have a proper refresh rate synced to your game. Go to your local TV store where all the big 4K TV sets are running at a high framerate.

 

It looks better, it feels better, it probably jumps at you in the face, it's so apparent.

 

I would say I can't believe people are happy to put us with a lower performing game. Then again, the double and almost triple think some people seem to have to justify their Jumping HobNobs collection over actual games, I can't say I am surprised there are people who are prepared to settle for less.

 

I think a locked framerate of AT LEAST 60fps should be the standard on everything. Almost every arcade game ever released runs on a locked 60Hz or 50Hz framerate. If games in the 80s and 90s and even home computers decades ago can handle high frames, there is no excuse 30 years later.

 

Hell even your average mobile phone runs at 120fps just in the UI, that's why it feels so good when you flick the window up or down and the smooth inertia that the scrolling menu gives. It's also why the Vita UI sucks and feels horrible, as it runs at 30fps (at most)

Edited October 28, 2022 by enaysoft

[EDGES]

2 hours ago, Akrioz said:

40 FPS modes on a 120hz TV is actually a great middle ground. I hope more games will take this approach. The only downside is you need a pricey TV or monitor. 

yeah, that would be a nice new standard, unfortunately, the PS5 HDMI 2.1 port bandwidth only allows 422 chroma at 4k/120, so unless Sony will release an updated PS5 with a full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 port that allows 444 chroma at 4k/120, it's irrelevant to me, I will never compromise on image quality on my PS5

[XXIIlII]

People are debating 30vs60 and then there's me who can't go back after trying 120 on ps5 lol.

God of war 120 fps let's goooo

[SnowxSakura]

3 hours ago, Prometheous101 said:

Choppy performance is choppy performance. Nothing to do with 30 vs 60 fps.

Games being coded badly and then having "choppy" performance due to bad coding, vs console not being able to take it due to lack of power.

 

When you regularly play in 60 fps or higher, yes 30 fps is choppy. Everything has a slight stutter to it, some devs hide it better than others. It is very easy to test on pc when you can lock the frame rate at whatever value you want to

[disaster500]

For me 30fps is perfectly playable but the difference between 30fps and 60fps is night and day. The difference between 144hz and 60hz is also pretty noticeable imo. I'd much rather the frames than better graphics any day.

 

I like the current standard of PS5 games having several options which balance FPS and graphics. I hope it stays through the generation, but I doubt it unfortunately.

[Alayaes]

I remember when I played Final Fantasy 6 on a 17" TV in my room, but then my mom had some kind of work-related educational seminar so I was able to take it downstairs for one evening and play it on the monster 24" TV. I felt like I was at an IMAX theater.

 

In short, I just don't give two shits. I get why others do, but this will never pertain to me. I'm aware of the objective differences between 30 and 60 FPS but I just don't find the differences tangible enough to a point where they affect my enjoyment of a game. I usually play PS4 and 5 on a cellphone via remote play, so what do I know?

 

With that said, I feel like things like the FPS comparisons or resolution wars are a voluntary, subjective point of contention because people have run out of things to be picky about in the graphical department. Once graphics became somewhat stagnant roughly 8 years ago and only marginally improved over their predecessors/competition, people had to start focusing on other means of comparison. In comes 1080 vs 4k, 30 vs 60 fps, 120 vs 240hz, etc.

 

If a game runs at a locked 30 FPS I will never feel held back by anything. I'm more concerned about games dropping below that or flopping between 30-60 uncontrollably. Either lock in 30 or 60 and focus on other things, like making the game fun. If you come out with an open-world game—guaranteed locked in at 60 FPS—but it's yet ANOTHER large map with a round minimap, crafting system, stealth mechanics, a bow+arrow, collectibles, and NPCs that stay in one spot until you perform their fetch quest; then I couldn't care less if you have 1 FPS or 6,000 FPS. It's still the same boring shit that we've seen 500 times over already.

[majob]

For me it honestly depends on the game. Startegy games or turn based RPGs then I don't really care if it's 30fps. I grew up playing blocky NES games so I don't really throw a fit if everything isn't running smooth as silk

Edited October 28, 2022 by majob

[Slava]

I want to remind that this topic is less about what you prefer and more about what you expect. There is already a "Performance vs quality" thread somewhere.

 

For the sake of discussion, we can focus on developers instead. Let's take Naughty Dog, for example. This studio is known for pushing quality. Knowing that fact, and knowing how their previous games ran, I expect their next game (or the one after TLOU Factions) to run at 30 frames as a base, and I expect them not to include a performance mode because it will look way worse on top of having a lower resolution. They might include a 40fps option though.

 

_____

 

Off topic, but the TV's that double the framerate are a thing. It's basically a motion smoothing technology which takes two frames, generates an interpolated frame from them, and puts it in between. I've never had one, but I've seen them at stores. I think it works on any video, so it should work on games too. It looks bad BTW ?. You get frames even where there shouldn't be one, for example during a cut between two shots.

 

Also, someone suggested checking your monitor settings if you can't tell the difference between framerates. Even though having 30Hz set by default sounds unlikely, I know at least one case where a person realised they were playing games at this refresh rate the whole time and were blown away after changing it ?.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Slava

[Akrioz]

3 minutes ago, Slava said:

 

Off topic, but the TV's that double the framerate are a thing. It's basically a motion smoothing technology which takes two frames, generates an interpolated frame from them, and puts it in between. I've never had one, but I've seen them at stores. I think it works on any video, so it should work on games too. It looks bad BTW ?. You get frames even where there shouldn't be one, for example during a cut between two shots.

This technolohy is only good for video, because it adds a lot of input lag. I guess some people just don't care about it or don't notice. But if you really want the smooth and responsive gameplay that 40+ FPS provides, then it just defeats the purpose.