Removing cheaters from the leaderboards

[ArmoredSnowman]

On 1/18/2018 at 6:16 PM, Powerflank said:

Hello, I was wondering why cheaters need 3 flagged games to be removed from the leaderboards. I think a single hacked trophy is more than enough to be removed from the leaderboards unless he can prove he didn't hack of course. Is it possible to make the rule more strict? With the current state, most cheaters can easily get away by hiding the trophy list of a game and still show up on the leaderboards. This is unacceptable in my opinion.

Not going to state my opinion one way or another (though getting removed for one single trophy would be pretty stupid, considering CODs/GTA, etc.), but what is your view on people who buy syncs from trophy shops? 

Edited March 24, 2018 by ArmoredSquirreXD

[ArmoredSnowman]

On 1/22/2018 at 6:47 AM, Sergen said:

People always say that everyone deserves a second chance. There were people who hacked games like FUEL before PSNProfiles existed and before most members of this website had even entered their teenage years. So if someone hacked FUEL 8 years ago when they were 13 and now they’re 21, should that 1 game be holding their profile back for the rest of their life? That’s one of the reasons why you’re allowed to hide games that you get flagged for to an extent. 

 

People didn't think using other people’s saves in 2009 and 2010 would later affect their leaderboard rank on a website that didn’t even exist at the time. Aside from that, things like FIFA 09 where the interactive leagues broke within months were hacked with save files and the save file was advertised as a fix for a broken trophy rather than being a wrong thing to do, hence why thousands of people used the save. 

 

What I’ve always found funny is how much of an elitist community the trophy hunters are. I may have flagged a lot of people, but I still don’t think this way, I think anyone who hacked trophies more than 7 years ago or people who end up in modded lobbies and have trophies autopopped for them shouldn’t have it affect their entire trophy profile. 

 

Trophy hunters are quick to jump on the bandwagon and treat it like you’ve sinned against a religion if you hack a trophy, but they’re also quick to get on a game and be carried with entire platinums that they don’t work for so they can get trophies quickly. People make a world on minecraft and prepare every trophy so someone who has 0% on the trophy list can get the platinum through someone else’s work, you hardly see trophy hunters complain about that because instead of going on a website to find save files, you go on a website to find someone who can invite you to their online lobby. 

Agreed

[ArmoredSnowman]

On 1/30/2018 at 11:05 AM, MMDE said:

 

 

This is related to why HAKOOM recently hid all his trophies, in protest for leaderboards not banning such users. They buy trophies, and most of it is probably cheated. Meanwhile, HAKOOM himself have had a trophy service for years where he himself sell trophies.

It's commonly believed that Hakoom has bought from some trophy services as well. Same with George. 

[GravityQueeen]

1 hour ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

If things didn't changed reporting was a Premium feature, right?

 

That may be your problem, since you aren't Premium now.

I dont think reporting is a feature only for Premium members because I can see the red phrase in other's people profile. But boy, I need to buy a Premium subscription! 

1 hour ago, Izul said:

Drawn to Death can be autopopped, sort of. There are a few things you need to do, but it's very quick:

 

https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/6142381-post2.html

It explains everything, thank you!

[optimusmart]

2 hours ago, skateak said:

CFW is the abbreviation for Custom Firmware and it lets you do all sorts of nasty things with your console but this isn't the place for me to be disscuing that. You can do some searching around online if you need to know more about it

 

As far as people getting a 2nd and 3rd chance, they already do. That is the whole purpose of the 3 flags and your off the leaderboards policy. Whether it is save data use or some dick popping trophies for you, it all falls under the umbrella of an illegitimate trophy time. You can still play your PS+ games from your 'old account' on a new account without an issue. You only have to have one account on your console to have PS+ to play online so just keep you old account subscribed and your new one can still play online and your old games.

I know the 3 flags thing, I mean it should be the same for alt accountd as well

 

When I was save editing, I was just experimenting at the time and didnt even really pay attention to leaderboards. I was fresh on the Trophy scene and was just thinking about numbers

 

Anyway, after a few games I didnt really bother with editor anymore. Few years later im beginning to pay more and more attention to PSNprofile leaderboards as I am becoming more attracted to trophies. I think one day I logged in and I just had 3 flags

 

It took me a while to make an account on PSN, and when i did I already had 3 flags. Yes, my own fault, but I was not aware of what I was doing at the time or the consequences I guess

 

(Also, I was using the Xploder cheat disc as it was supposed legal, so I didnt think there would be any consequences) 

 

 

The problem with Psplus freebies, is they are only valid if psplus is active on that account. I know I can play games on any account on the same PS4

 

If i make a new main account, then I want to have psplus on that so i start building up free games on it. But then i lose freebies on my flagged account

 

I plan to have psplus on 2 accounts for a few months or so as I transition them across. Any previously free games im wanting to play, I will just have to do it by then

 

Im not bothered about amount of trophies anyway as Im never gonna be high on that. I just like having the fastest 100% which can easily be acquired be platting on various guest accounts before the main run on ur main account

Edited March 24, 2018 by optimusmart

[ArmoredSnowman]

2 hours ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

If things didn't changed reporting was a Premium feature, right?

 

That may be your problem, since you aren't Premium now.

 

It's not. I reported several BO2 hackers a few hrs ago, and my premium's been over. 

[ArmoredSnowman]

1 hour ago, optimusmart said:

I know the 3 flags thing, I mean it should be the same for alt accountd as well

 

When I was save editing, I was just experimenting at the time and didnt even really pay attention to leaderboards. I was fresh on the Trophy scene and was just thinking about numbers

 

Anyway, after a few games I didnt really bother with editor anymore. Few years later im beginning to pay more and more attention to PSNprofile leaderboards as I am becoming more attracted to trophies. I think one day I logged in and I just had 3 flags

 

It took me a while to make an account on PSN, and when i did I already had 3 flags. Yes, my own fault, but I was not aware of what I was doing at the time or the consequences I guess

 

(Also, I was using the Xploder cheat disc as it was supposed legal, so I didnt think there would be any consequences) 

 

 

The problem with Psplus freebies, is they are only valid if psplus is active on that account. I know I can play games on any account on the same PS4

 

If i make a new main account, then I want to have psplus on that so i start building up free games on it. But then i lose freebies on my flagged account

 

I plan to have psplus on 2 accounts for a few months or so as I transition them across. Any previously free games im wanting to play, I will just have to do it by then

 

Im not bothered about amount of trophies anyway as Im never gonna be high on that. I just like having the fastest 100% which can easily be acquired be platting on various guest accounts before the main run on ur main account

As for your Vita digital titles. There is somewhat a workaround but I have no clue if it works for 3.67 firmware. I do know it worked for me being able to play my bought Spyro games on Vita (since USA accounts cant buy it for vita, only PS3/PSP). But apart from that, I haven't fiddled with it, though using it would make stacks doable, without needing physical copies. 

 

 

[StanPortrBridges]

16 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

Well, there's no reports by you in the queue. In fact, the last one by you that I approved is #210 of the recently processed reports. If that was yesterday, which it was (22nd Mar 2018), then it has already been approved and 209 other reports have been processed since then. And honestly, I do 99% of this.

I don't know when the user was originally reported, all I know is that when I go to report certain games and see they have been already reported, they are still on the leaderboards when I caught them. The person you're talking about was probably who I looked at a few days ago.

 

But I'm looking at a different user right now that I reported for auto popping a list and their still listed, of course their not gonna get removed unless it's 3 games but you can just ignore the flag forever and keep your spot on the most recently achieved section while still effecting the trophy rarity? I got 4 users right now that can be flagged that will increase the rarity of a gold trophy if they get purged. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by BHK3

[hcmode]

On 24/3/2018 at 9:59 AM, ArmoredSquirreXD said:

Not going to state my opinion one way or another (though getting removed for one single trophy would be pretty stupid, considering CODs/GTA, etc.), but what is your view on people who buy syncs from trophy shops? 

 

Those who buy trophies must be instantly banned in my opinion. The 3 flag policy doesn't make sense in that case. 

 

If you happen to join a lobby where you get trophies autopopped I don't care at all. The flag policy has some flaws, people who hacked Red Dead Redemption trophies were never flagged but those who got Run Like The Wind on GTA V were flagged at first...

 

So it all comes down to your intention. If you bought trophies you must be banned, if you got them autopopped that's ok.

[Zolkovo]

@BHK3 Just to give you a better idea of how the system works on PSNP:

• When you report someone, they aren't automatically removed from the leaderboards. This is because anyone who owns the game can make a report, which doesn't necessarily mean it's correct
• Instead, they get added to a list that the staff can review
• If the staff deem it to be a correct flag, then it gets approved and the user is notified of the flag as well as (temporary) removal from the leaderboards
• From there, the reported user can either go forward with a dispute, hide the game, or ignore it completely
  • If they ignore an approved flag (one where they're notified), then they will remain off the leaderboards
  • The only way to get back on the leaderboards once they have an approved flag is to either hide the game (up to a max of 2) or successfully dispute it
  • The users you have in mind most likely have reports waiting approval, so those users are oblivious to it afaik

Hope that clears any confusion about why some of the users you suspect of foul play are still ranked.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Zolkovo

[MMDE]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:47 PM, Zolkovo said:

@BHK3 Just to give you a better idea of how the system works on PSNP:

• When you report someone, they aren't automatically removed from the leaderboards. This is because anyone who owns the game can make a report, which doesn't necessarily mean it's correct
• Instead, they get added to a list that the staff can review
• If the staff deem it to be a correct flag, then it gets approved and the user is notified of the flag as well as (temporary) removal from the leaderboards
• From there, the reported user can either go forward with a dispute, hide the game, or ignore it completely
  • If they ignore an approved flag (one where they're notified), then they will remain off the leaderboards
  • The only way to get back on the leaderboards once they have an approved flag is to either hide the game (up to a max of 2) or successfully dispute it
  • The users you have in mind most likely have reports waiting approval, so those users are oblivious to it afaik

Hope that clears any confusion about why some of the users you suspect of foul play are still ranked.

 

Not entirely correct. There's some auto flag stuff too, and those you can't dispute in the normal way.

[Tosmasta00]

10 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

Not entirely correct. There's some auto flag stuff too, and those you can't dispute in the normal way.

 

Prolly stuff like platting White Knight Chronicles in like 1h i guess? Because used to see people like that way back.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Tosmasta00

[kfree7]

On 1/22/2018 at 5:47 AM, Sergen said:

People always say that everyone deserves a second chance. There were people who hacked games like FUEL before PSNProfiles existed and before most members of this website had even entered their teenage years. So if someone hacked FUEL 8 years ago when they were 13 and now they’re 21, should that 1 game be holding their profile back for the rest of their life? That’s one of the reasons why you’re allowed to hide games that you get flagged for to an extent. 

 

People didn't think using other people’s saves in 2009 and 2010 would later affect their leaderboard rank on a website that didn’t even exist at the time. Aside from that, things like FIFA 09 where the interactive leagues broke within months were hacked with save files and the save file was advertised as a fix for a broken trophy rather than being a wrong thing to do, hence why thousands of people used the save. 

 

What I’ve always found funny is how much of an elitist community the trophy hunters are. I may have flagged a lot of people, but I still don’t think this way, I think anyone who hacked trophies more than 7 years ago or people who end up in modded lobbies and have trophies autopopped for them shouldn’t have it affect their entire trophy profile. 

 

Trophy hunters are quick to jump on the bandwagon and treat it like you’ve sinned against a religion if you hack a trophy, but they’re also quick to get on a game and be carried with entire platinums that they don’t work for so they can get trophies quickly. People make a world on minecraft and prepare every trophy so someone who has 0% on the trophy list can get the platinum through someone else’s work, you hardly see trophy hunters complain about that because instead of going on a website to find save files, you go on a website to find someone who can invite you to their online lobby. 

 

Nice to see you again Sergen.  You have helped me before.  I find these comments interesting and thought-provoking.  With Destiny 2, I had a group to work with but I had to actually do work to get the raid trophy.  You could, however, get carried in CoD easter eggs.  It makes me sick that people think they are special because of "their card".  I loved gaming before cards and before trophies.  Trophies are cool though.  

 

In 1977 when my family got an Atari, we didn't give a care about anything but trying to do our best and enjoy the ride.  

 

Get back to enjoying gaming because it's a game.  A game that is fun is something you can get lost in and forget everything else.  I'm not any bettter and anyone.  Someone that has more trophies or plats is not any better than me or you.  Be a gaming and enjoy our favorite pastime.  

[optimusmart]

I think there should be a time limit at least for each flag. People learn, people change, people make mistakes etc

 

We commit a crime, depending on how severe, are giving an x amount of time in prison. After which we are released.

 

Drpending on severity of crimes, records can be cleared after so many years.

 

Driving offences usually have a time period to them as well after which they are wiped

 

Cheating for videogames trophies is in no league compared to the above, but results in a permanent ban

 

I made a mistake years ago and now it haunts me for life ;(

 

Obviously when bans are cleared, cheated games would remain removed and those gamers would be banned again after just 1 flag going forward

 

They should have a 3-5 year ban period for subscribers at least

 

Is something like this being looked at??

 

[AUSTRALIANDJ]

On 19/01/2018 at 8:08 PM, Happy said:

 

If the game is hidden then it doesn’t count for the leaderboards. Thus that player doesn’t hold an advantage over other players and the legitimacy of the leaderboards isn’t damaged.

I don’t see the problem.

But they can unhide the games whenever they feel like it. Therefore getting that advantage

[Happy]

35 minutes ago, AUSTRALIANDJ said:

But they can unhide the games whenever they feel like it. Therefore getting that advantage

 

Unhiding flagged games means you’re no longer on the leaderboards so this is hardly an advantage at all.

[BrettyBoy]

 

 

Terminator Salvation (hard mode hacked), Call Of Duty Classic (difficulty trophies hacked), Fuel, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune (treasures hacked but got most of them legit) and Modern Warfare 2 are my only hacked platinums.

 

That was all years back though, got someone to do the hacks for me. I admit, it was dumb but you know what they say, you live you learn.

 

The majority of my trophy collection is legit though and I have also earned MOST of my trophies without anyone earning trophies for me. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by BrettyBoy

[PSXtreme_]

On 6/25/2018 at 0:00 PM, optimusmart said:

I think there should be a time limit at least for each flag. People learn, people change, people make mistakes etc

 

We commit a crime, depending on how severe, are giving an x amount of time in prison. After which we are released.

 

Drpending on severity of crimes, records can be cleared after so many years.

 

Driving offences usually have a time period to them as well after which they are wiped

 

Cheating for videogames trophies is in no league compared to the above, but results in a permanent ban

 

I made a mistake years ago and now it haunts me for life ;(

 

Obviously when bans are cleared, cheated games would remain removed and those gamers would be banned again after just 1 flag going forward

 

They should have a 3-5 year ban period for subscribers at least

 

Is something like this being looked at??

 

No.

 

The only people who seem to have a problem with banning cheaters are the people who get caught cheating. 

 

As for punishments not lasting longer than their time in prison, you are also wrong.

 

People with Felonies are not permitted to own firearms, vote in many states, hold specific jobs, if they committed a sex crime, live in certain areas, be around children EVER...etc etc etc.

 

If you want to become righteous and to prove you've been rehabilitated by your punishment, then you should start a fresh account and show the community you've seen the error of your ways and are willing to work for your status. Nobody gives you a second chance...you have to start over, work for it and earn it.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by PSXtreme_

[Shmeefly]

Yea I think the site does a good job of removing cheaters, will never be up to the standards of everyone as everyone sees it differently, me personally, I’m ocd I’d spend a year on 1 plat if I had too, but leaderboard position isn’t something I’m too worried about, mainly for a couple reasons, firstly, I’m in the UK which means I have to share my country rank with 4/5 nations, and I know some of my friends in the USA for a fact have their PS4 set to English UK instead of USA meaning there’s probably thousands of players in the USA alone who are being counted on my Country rank, and vice versa, it sucks but what can you do, I have a trophy hunter buddy who’s Dutch and has his nation led set as French or something, why I don’t know but my point is the leaderboards will never be 100% perfect, as for hunters like us all, I personally don’t agree with a certain player up towards the top of the lb, no gonna name who it’s not my place to make the rules, but this guy has someone on 3 systems all the time, someone works on his PS3, while he’s on his PS4, and someone on his PSP,  in fact a lot of the time it’s not even him playing, it’s his friends or family, so why should this guy be allowed to be in the same leaderboard as me who does everything on my own, trying to fight for spare time to play amongst time spent with my children lol, and ofc the main factor is that small quick games like my name is mayo has just as many points in the platinum as say F12017 which I’m almost done with, which is well over 100h, Mayo being around 30 mins? How can that count as much!!

I pride myself and my list on not filling it with junk to fight up a pointless leaderboard that il never top, and tbh if I hammered games so hard to reach top 100, by the time I got top 100 il be retiring anyway and will probably have ruined a lot of brilliant games by rushing them to do it, my advice is don’t stress over lb, or any in game stat either, the rage I used to get checking my kdr in bf3 was enough to make me realise why am I bothering, just enjoy what your playing, n plat what you want, as a community we have bigger problems in the world of gaming now anyway, all this monetising, loot box bananza, it’s getting out of hand, peace ✌️ 

[PSXtreme_]

I propose this as a new amendment to the dispute policy:

 

Whereas the 3 strike policy is the law of the land wholly to give the benefit of the doubt to people caught up in the cheating of hackers or situations beyond their personal control. It is not supposed to be used or abused by profiles looking to see how much they can get away with before getting caught. Furthermore, the publicly vocalizing of additional suspected lists before they can be evaluated or reported and/or the constant warnings to hide other cheated trophies within the dispute do nothing but add illegitimacy to the site and its status within the gaming community as a whole. PSNP is one of the few benchmarks used by the entire trophy hunting community and in saying that, it should also consider its leaderboards held to a higher standard.  

 

Therefore to truly judge the intent and extent of the cheating I suggest that before ANY dispute is discussed or debated that ALL trophies in the suspect profile should be available for the viewing of the membership for a complete and honest judgement in whether they have been a victim of circumstance or are simply trying to game the system. Until that happens, the moderators should lock the dispute thread until this, along with ALL of the pertinent information to judge the dispute is included as specified in the official dispute thread.

 

Along with this, the community and/or the staff need to either shit or get off the pot with this proposed whitelist system. It's been years now that this idea has been floating around the dusty back rooms of the site and it either needs to be implemented post haste or dropped entirely and a cheated game is a cheated game. 

 

Without these two addendum added to the site's policies our legitimacy shall forever remain in question and the leaderboards in whole are nothing more that mental masturbation.  

 

I leave it up to you all....

[Helyx]

1 hour ago, PSXtreme_ said:

add illegitimacy to the site

 

Maybe you can start by posting fewer memes in dispute threads.

[StanPortrBridges]

Hot Take: Either Privatize the dispute forum so that its only viewable to people who have been flagged and mods, OR prevent posting by other members entirely but have it be public.

 

Here's like 95% of all dispute threads turn out.

 

xx420sniperSCoPexx has posted:

Call of Duty Blops

"hey mang i didn't do anything wtf???"

 

Poster 1: "Flag reason?"

Poster 2: "off with his head!"

Poster 3: *posts meme*

Poster's 4-9: *Incredibly detailed explanations of how OP's flag can be legitimate through intense googling, research, videos and guides being present as evidence.*

Mod: Lifted

---------------------------------------

ALTERNATE ENDING

Poster 4: "This list is CFW/Hacked" *posts screenshot*

OP: "datss not me, me brthers dogs gurlfriend dun it."

Mod: "Lol, the flag stays, you're off the leaderboards."

 

 

The other 5% the OP actually lists the reason and gives a defense and sticks around past his opening post. I don't understand why I see so many users jump to a random persons defense putting in a ton of legwork when they are not the ones on trial. I'm ok with them helping an OP if he's actually trying, but the amount of threads where the OP starts the thread and never posts again while the community has their BEST internet researchers on the case for OP's innocence is too damn high. I think every thread should stay locked to the OP and Mods at first(but viewable by everyone), and then if the Mod thinks the community can help resolve the case then they can open the thread to the public.

 

Also +1 to either put the whitelist in already or can it. Have flags auto removed or not applicable to X list of games. Or just do it manually and trash whatever report is from the list of games. Its usually the same few games always popping up, sports games call of duty grand theft auto. Or delete the thread and if you get hacked then well, that's life. The whole deleting your trophies thing to get rid of the hacked accounts is such an unknown workaround that no one knows about that it cant be used as a real solution so either acquit them or throw away the damn key already.

Edited October 17, 2019 by BHK3

[DaivRules]

Here's how I'd like the Dispute logic to work:

1. Disputer creates dispute and it posts as intended with reason in opening post automatically
2. Thread immediately becomes locked.
   1. Gives visibility for members to examine profiles and report other cheated games
   2. Allows members familiar with the game to examine the reason and form opinion on whether flag is valid or not.
      1. Members can PM Cheater Removers about specific dispute with facts
      2. Members can wait to see if the thread is opened for input and post if it does
3. Cheater Remover checks on new, locked threads
   1. Professionally responds to the CoD/whatever threads that were never going to be lifted to begin with, thread remains closed.
   2. Opens thread for input from members to explain if the trophies are possible to earn in the time/order.
4. Disputes are resolved based on factual input from members and responses from disputer

[Squirlruler]

10 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

Here's how I'd like the Dispute logic to work:

1. Disputer creates dispute and it posts as intended with reason in opening post automatically
2. Thread immediately becomes locked.
   1. Gives visibility for members to examine profiles and report other cheated games
   2. Allows members familiar with the game to examine the reason and form opinion on whether flag is valid or not.
      1. Members can PM Cheater Removers about specific dispute with facts
      2. Members can wait to see if the thread is opened for input and post if it does
3. Cheater Remover checks on new, locked threads
   1. Professionally responds to the CoD/whatever threads that were never going to be lifted to begin with, thread remains closed.
   2. Opens thread for input from members to explain if the trophies are possible to earn in the time/order.
4. Disputes are resolved based on factual input from members and responses from disputer

1. Aboslutely

2. No. People will view it, but there are a couple issues with this. 1. The people who have knowledge of it probably won't PM the CRT because they will have to search them down if they don't already know them, or won't want to create a PM for whatever reason, or won't know who approved the flag and thus PM the wrong CRT "in charge" or who approved the flag, thus them may having to mail different ones, or just emailing them all, which, all, seem annoying to everyone. 2. CRT PM's are already basically full and this will just compound the issue, since they will have to send a lot of time cleaning that shit up.

3. Would be fine with specific games being auto locked as suggested (MW2, BLOPSII, W@W, LBP2, FUEL, etc). All others should be public and open.

4. Would be nice to get more dialog from disputers

[starcrunch061]

Old thread, lots of good stuff, lots of bad.

 

I wish for one thing: when some starts a dispute thread, there should be an autopost from the site which lists the game, the trophies flagged, and the reason for the flagging. This should be in clear text. The next post can belong to the disputer to add their defense, etc., but too often, dispute threads start with something like, "I didn't cheat this game. I used this idea", with no knowledge of what the game was, or what the trophies were. 

 

That should be an easy thing to implement for the site.