Dylan-Mehl

Should cheaters have opportunity to gain back access to the leaderboards?

109 posts in this topic

Hi, so the title as is might be a little bit confusing.

Disclaimer: I don't like cheaters, I don't understand how someone can enjoy playing a game while using cheap save data's and such.


The reason I ask this question is because of a situation regarding myself. Lets explain!
 

Somewhere in 2013 I was 12 years old and was already into trophies. Obviously not as serious as I am now, but I found it very satisfying to do everything in a game and see my progress bar go up by every trophy I earned. Because of my age, I had not all the money in the world and had to use the games which where bought by my parents or my siblings. I was planning to get 100% in LittleBigPlanet 2 but found myself not being able to get my hands on a Ps Vita to complete the Cross Controller Expansion. So one of my siblings found a way to get them without buying it, using a public save data. I didn't know the consequences back then and just let him do it.

So, I got the few (around 6) trophies for this expansion and got flagged when I updated my account here a few years later. It sucks, because I had to hide the whole game, and doing so basicly messes up my whole milestones on this site and I am always marked as 'Hey, this guy has hidden 80 trophies, this might be a cheater'.

Should cheaters have opportunity to gain back access to the leaderboards?
I think for some specific situations you should be able to gain access back while make those flagged trophies public.

My proposal is as following: When a cheater has only a few trophies cheated, let him or her obtain those trophies once again, but obviously now without the cheating aspect. Let them give some proof that they actually did obtain them legitimate. Mark the 'cheated trophies' with a new status, maybe something like 'Once cheated, but with proof legitimate obtained on another profile". Remove the cheaters from the 'First to obtain' and 'Fastest to obtain' leaderboards but let them keep the game in their list. Hell, even distract the score of those trophies from the actually total score, just keep the milestones.

This might be a big oof for the Cheater Removal team, because it's a lot of work to review all those specific situations and the proof given. But I think for situations like this, it would be worth it. It would make my experience on this site so much better because I can actually see my real milestones. I know that it is all my own fault, but I didn't know better. It's not an excuse, the situation just sucks, and I am searching for a way out of it in a way which is acceptable.

I would like to know what any of you think about this.

 

Thanks :').

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45 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

honestly if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.  The leaderboards hold absolutely zero meaning anyway because to be honest everybody plays different types of games.  I'm already to the point on the leaderboards where if I don't get 100 trophies in a week I don't move up in the ranks because people are stacking shit games all day long.  I don't see how you can have a leaderboard that doesn't take into account length and difficulty of games.  The only leaderboard that would possible bear any meaning would be some sort of rarity leaderboard.  this type of leaderboard where you award the same points for a 30 second platinum as someone who got a 400 hour platinum with some difficulty is complete trash.  it's only for the ratalaka club it's not for anyone else.  Sometimes i think it's nice to see where I rank than i remind myself it means nothing anyway because the people who are ahead of me a lot of them didn't put half the time into their list.  If i were you i'd just use the site to track my games and wouldn't worry too much about it.   

True, but I like to see where I am at in my country, I know the top 100 are the people you are talking about. It does gives me a boost to see my self go up in the leaderboards. I agree with you, there should be another leaderboard. Maybe I should make the game visible again and just use this site for tracking only. I don't know, sucks that this is the ultimatum I have =p.

Edited by DaivRules
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9 minutes ago, Dylan-Mehl said:

Or I actually earned it legitable. With a full squad of friends, setting up a lan party, actually makes it pretty achievable.
 

True, but I like to see where I am at in my country, I know the top 100 are the people you are talking about. It does gives me a boost to see my self go up in the leaderboards. I agree with you, there should be another leaderboard. Maybe I should make the game visible again and just use this site for tracking only. I don't know, sucks that this is the ultimatum I have =p.

I have hidden games it's no big deal.  they aren't cheated they are 3 games I played when I 1st got my system off ps now before I even knew what trophy hunting was about and I hid them because i'm OCD a bit and they looked like trash and out of place.  I'm playing one of them right now suffering through it to get it done.  I use to have about 8 games from before i trophy hunted.  I slowly get them done and I unhide them.  It's all for my viewing pleasure I could give a shit what anyone thinks.  Once i finish dying light i only have two more ps now game to complete Batman Arkham Asylum and one of the God of Wars.  I will get them done at some point and then i won't have hidden games but my point is not everyone hides games because they cheated.  

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Just now, Helmet_time said:

That's what the three-strikes rule does.  Cheaters have two opportunities to get back on the leader boards.  Given that this can include egregious cheating, that's pretty generous, honestly.   

Yes, but no, because you still have to choose the 'Do I wanna see my actually milestones, or do I want to be on the leaderboards?'. And this ultimatum sucks in the context given in this thread (at least in my opinion it does).

 

I cheated. And thats all on me. But I thought my proposal might be a solution to the situation given.

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Just now, Dylan-Mehl said:

Yes, but no, because you still have to choose the 'Do I wanna see my actually milestones, or do I want to be on the leaderboards?'. And this ultimatum sucks in the context given in this thread (at least in my opinion it does).

 

I cheated. And thats all on me. But I thought my proposal might be a solution to the situation given.

So if your question actually is should you be allowed to display a cheated game and get credit for it towards the leaderboards the answer is no.  It's not a milestone anyway if you cheated it.

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4 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

So if your question actually is should you be allowed to display a cheated game and get credit for it towards the leaderboards the answer is no.  It's not a milestone anyway if you cheated it.

Only if someone can give the proof that they obtained the cheated trophies once again on another account without cheating. And the Cheater Removal staff needs to give their approval by reviewing it. + Context matters, I earned the whole base game and 3 out of 4 expansions without cheating.

Edited by Dylan-Mehl
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2 minutes ago, Dylan-Mehl said:

Only if someone can give the proof that they obtained the cheated trophies once again on another account without cheating. And the Cheater Removal staff needs to give their approval by reviewing it.

But how would you even prove that YOU were the one who did it and didn't lend your account to someone else? There's a lot of loopholes around the idea.

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This probably won't happen. It's a very obscure case, so to speak. There are people who say that cheated games automatically equal cheating, but screw those guys. One of the mods hides every completed game.

 

For the most part, when you only have one flagged game, and are still on the leaderboards, most people won't automatically assume that this happened. You may get back on the leaderboard with your profile intact, but this can also be a chance for most serious cheaters. It's even possible they submit it while using a different method that's not detectable yet, and gain access that way. 

 

The three strike rule was implemented for cases like this. No one really cares about your milestones, and even with that implemented, the milestones wouldn't be correct. You earned those 6 trophies later, but they're displayed as shown earlier. Also why the "H is cheater" is bullshit, plenty of people just ran into a hacker on BO2.

 

 

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Or you could just make a new account and earn trophies without cheating any of them.

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Its very simple. Start a new account and don't cheat. You will be on the leaderboards. B)

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13 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

But how would you even prove that YOU were the one who did it and didn't lend your account to someone else? There's a lot of loopholes around the idea.

You can create a new PlayStation account with a name given by the Cheater Removal Team member. The timestamps and dates obviously can't be before the dispute.

 

It is hard to proof that you didn't lend out your account to someone else, but that is also the case for every trophy on your profile. Because they can all be earned by someone else.
 

You can even stream the journey to get those trophies again etc.

 

10 minutes ago, Berendsapje said:

This probably won't happen. It's a very obscure case, so to speak. There are people who say that cheated games automatically equal cheating, but screw those guys. One of the mods hides every completed game.

 

For the most part, when you only have one flagged game, and are still on the leaderboards, most people won't automatically assume that this happened. You may get back on the leaderboard with your profile intact, but this can also be a chance for most serious cheaters. It's even possible they submit it while using a different method that's not detectable yet, and gain access that way. 

 

The three strike rule was implemented for cases like this. No one really cares about your milestones, and even with that implemented, the milestones wouldn't be correct. You earned those 6 trophies later, but they're displayed as shown earlier. Also why the "H is cheater" is bullshit, plenty of people just ran into a hacker on BO2.

 

 

I care about my own milestones. You might be right on the 'H is cheater' thing.

I don't think my proposal has a lot of loopholes in it. The proposal just shouldn't count by people who have earned over 50 cheated trophies.
 

7 minutes ago, gruffiiti said:

Its very simple. Start a new account and don't cheat. You will be on the leaderboards. B)

Looking back at my profile, seeing my whole journey, makes it more fun to earn trophs!

Edited by Dylan-Mehl
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No. Start a new profile a do everything legit from there.

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19 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

This is such a complicated and overly-burdensome method for other people to create and maintain just to ask for an exception. And then is so loose on who would or wouldn't be able to do so, when the justification comes down to: You just still want to be on the leaderboards.

 

 

There already is an exception: You can hide up to two flagged games and return to the leaderboards.

 

Making the leaderboard bend to accommodate you isn't really fair to everyone else who cares about it and did what it takes to stay on it legitimately. 

 

You definitly have a point. But I'd think there has to be a solution for issues like this. While still keeping the benefits of this website. I was just throwing in a proposal which might be the solution to situations like this without offending others. The cheated trophies don't have to count to your global score.

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They already have a second chance by creating a new profile and doing things right. 

 

Cheating on SP games is fine as it either disables trophies or bares no conflict to other players. But with leaderboards this is a whole different rule set. You can wreck peoples progress, you can ruin competition, you are being pointless. 

 

So should you be forgiven for cheating in online leaderboard placing? Nope. 

 

Its not like the real world where there is a defense for both the innocent and the criminal. Gaming has that luxury of saying 'you took the piss, now fuck off and you won't be coming back'.

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1 hour ago, steel6burgh said:

I'm already to the point on the leaderboards where if I don't get 100 trophies in a week I don't move up in the ranks because people are stacking shit games all day long.

Same.

 

Back in the day where the most shameful platinum was Hannah Montana or Terminator, leaderboards meant something it competing on them was doable and fun. Now, like @steel6burgh, unless I get like 50 trophies in a few days, or get a platinum or two close to each other, I'm always either on the same spot or falling a few down. No point in even trying to bother unless you're a trophy whore with hundreds of Ratalaika stacks.

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when i see hidden games i dont see them as cheaters maybe they hide them bc they got 1 trophy in 10 games and never ever wanted to play again so they hide it to get better % completion. now to the actual question. no 1. it seems like its a LOT to work on 2. if you dont film yourself doing it its not actally proof, bc look i cheated on this account too but bc  I'm not required to show me play 100 hours nobody can say I didn't do it.

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I guess ideally yes - if they can categorically show themselves getting those trophies legitimately on the same account. However, it would involve more work than a site like this can support, or should support given the more important things they could spend that time on.

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1 hour ago, steel6burgh said:

honestly if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.  The leaderboards hold absolutely zero meaning anyway because to be honest everybody plays different types of games.  I'm already to the point on the leaderboards where if I don't get 100 trophies in a week I don't move up in the ranks because people are stacking shit games all day long.  I don't see how you can have a leaderboard that doesn't take into account length and difficulty of games.  The only leaderboard that would possible bear any meaning would be some sort of rarity leaderboard.  this type of leaderboard where you award the same points for a 30 second platinum as someone who got a 400 hour platinum with some difficulty is complete trash.  it's only for the ratalaka club it's not for anyone else.  Sometimes i think it's nice to see where I rank than i remind myself it means nothing anyway because the people who are ahead of me a lot of them didn't put half the time into their list.  If i were you i'd just use the site to track my games and wouldn't worry too much about it.   

I hate the leaderboards for this very reason, everyone stacks trash games, so the only way to climb is to also stack trash games... So I caved and got a bunch of stupid easy platinums, a lot of Visual Novels(which I actually enjoyed), and pretty much anything I could get my hands on. While focusing on games I liked I would stack all these trashy games now my profile looks poopy. But I’ve made it into first achievers lists, fastest achievers lists, I have always tried to get my Ultra Rare count high(which I learned is a sham on this site apparently, some of my “rarest” games aren’t actually UR on PSN, but PSNProfiles says they are Ultra Rare, ex. Scene It Bright Lights Big Screen) but seeing all those poopy games on my profile saddens me that I caved just to climb my rank. 

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