A rant on selfish, self absorbed vegans...

[AJ_Radio]

The other day I got into an argument with a vegan who was claiming that I was polluting the environment by eating meat, because I have been a meat eater since I was a little kid.

 

Now, I'm not putting all vegans into one category. The vegans I'm ranting about are the ones who bitch and moan on social media who think that they're better off just because they have a vegetarian diet as opposed to a guy like me who eats various meats on a daily basis. Especially when they keep pulling platitudes.

 

I can never be a vegan. That much is a fact. I command some who are vegans who can live off of a strict diet without any form of actual meat. But I don't respect the ones who think they're better. Because each and every one of us has polluted the environment in some fashion or another. We have all contributed to today's Global Warming, and how it is having a catastrophic effect on melting ice caps around the world.

 

Have you ever met a selfish vegan? Perhaps some of you live with a vegan. Perhaps he or she is fine with you eating meats.

[MidnightDragon]

For a second, I thought you were talking about Tom Brady. However, he's not fully vegan.

 

I honestly don't get how vegans survive. Just seems extreme. Especially in the protein department. I mean, even if you don't eat meat, fish, or poultry, you could still get plenty from eggs, cheese, and milk...yet they even deny that.

Edited January 21, 2019 by MidnightDragon

[Mesopithecus]

I'm a vegetarian, I tried veganism but I like cheese too much and honestly vegan cheese tastes like sawdust 

 

On to your point though, I joined a few Facebook groups (probably my first mistake) purely for recipes and I completely understand where you are coming from with your comments, there are some very self righteous people out there and they don't just attack meat eaters - they in fight among themselves too, as to who has the best reasons for being vegan (environment, saving the animals, lifestyle choice etc.)  And if you dare post a recipe that contains something like honey for example, they really REALLY get mad.  I've seen people post recipes and asking for help substituting meat or dairy items and they completely ignore the request and go on a rant.  It's exhausting - as you said though it's not everyone, just a handful but I think the handful are why vegans get such a bad reputation.

 

I've only been vegetarian myself the past 4-5 years since my husband and I have been together, he has been a vegetarian most of his life.  It was a relatively easy choice for me, but he is completely fine if I ever wanted to eat meat.  Likewise, I wouldn't ever push my lifestyle choices onto someone else - you enjoy meat and that's fine, I prefer not to eat meat and that's also fine.  I'm not a fan of pushing an agenda on someone - especially with regards to food choices.

 

11 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

 

I honestly don't get how vegans survive. Just seems extreme.

 

You'd be surprised at how many vegan junk foods there are 

[MidnightDragon]

2 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

You'd be surprised at how many vegan junk foods there are 

Probably.

 

I couldn't be a vegan. I enjoy meat, eggs, cheese, and ice cream too much.

[Mesopithecus]

Just now, MidnightDragon said:

Probably.

 

I couldn't be a vegan. I enjoy meat, eggs, cheese, and ice cream too much.

 

I've tried vegan ice cream and it's not too bad, there is a brand called So Delicious that has quite a decent range of flavors.

 

I'm with you on the eggs and cheese though.  Cheese is my weakness!

 

I think if anything I miss bacon, back when I was living in the UK I'd love a bacon sandwich.  US bacon just isn't the same though so it wasn't too hard for me to give up 

[Gikui]

and here i'd be feeling weak if I don't eat meat for a few day's. Not sure how a vegan would get enough nutrition if they where say a labourer that has to work 12 hours or more in strenuous conditions? Though in saying that I'm sure there's a way to make it work but I couldn't personally. At least not cheaply but with a rent at 400+ a week not including other living expenses and the amount of food I consume it wouldn't be a suitable diet choice for someone like me that can never put on weight?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Gikui

[B1rvine]

He was likely referencing from this article:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/health/new-diet-to-save-lives-and-planet-health-study-intl/index.html

[AJ_Radio]

33 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

I'm a vegetarian, I tried veganism but I like cheese too much and honestly vegan cheese tastes like sawdust 

 

On to your point though, I joined a few Facebook groups (probably my first mistake) purely for recipes and I completely understand where you are coming from with your comments, there are some very self righteous people out there and they don't just attack meat eaters - they in fight among themselves too, as to who has the best reasons for being vegan (environment, saving the animals, lifestyle choice etc.)  And if you dare post a recipe that contains something like honey for example, they really REALLY get mad.  I've seen people post recipes and asking for help substituting meat or dairy items and they completely ignore the request and go on a rant.  It's exhausting - as you said though it's not everyone, just a handful but I think the handful are why vegans get such a bad reputation.

 

I've only been vegetarian myself the past 4-5 years since my husband and I have been together, he has been a vegetarian most of his life.  It was a relatively easy choice for me, but he is completely fine if I ever wanted to eat meat.  Likewise, I wouldn't ever push my lifestyle choices onto someone else - you enjoy meat and that's fine, I prefer not to eat meat and that's also fine.  I'm not a fan of pushing an agenda on someone - especially with regards to food choices.

 

Trust me I've been on social media over the past 15 years and have seen a LOT of vegans make all these heinous claims about how much better they are.

 

I believe a part of it is stemmed by how we were raised. I myself grew up on all the famous brands of cereal, the pancakes, the bacon, the sausage and what have you. Because I am older I have had to eliminate Lucky Charms, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Frosty Flakes, Fruit Loops, Fruity Pebbles and all the familiar cereals since I can no longer eat them like I used to. I had to cut a lot of sugar off, because sugar in fact helps increase the chances of diabetes.

 

I'm not strictly meat. I eat a lot of vegetables particularly celery and carrots. Those are two childhood vegetables that I will always love. But I also eat beef and chicken.

 

It was mentioning the word "meat" that triggered this person.

 

If I was going to change to a vegetarian I would of done so 10 years ago. But now it's just too late. I understand there are people older than me who have changed from meat to vegetarian, but I just cannot do it. I respect you for not shoving your agenda, I don't respect people who do that just to get others to like something that they like.

 

I worked at McDonalds for a number of years and eventually I got to see the same few customers. Some were meat, others were vegan. I had to make orders that were hamburgers without the meat, likewise I've had people order burgers but wanted no lettuce in them. What pissed me off is when someone would get mad that their order just wasn't right. There was a little lettuce left behind on the burger, or a tiny piece of meat somehow got in the burger that assembly just made.

 

In short, I hate the arrogant meat eaters just as much as I hate arrogant vegans. There is no perfect diet, no one diet is going to satisfy everyone.

[eigen-space]

Oh how I love JP Sears....

 

 

I actually find it funny how people get so self-righteous about environmentalism and how they are doing all sorts of things to lessen their carbon footprint, etc. Here's one of my favorite debunking articles about vegetarianism/ veganism being better for the environment:
https://www.sciencealert.com/sorry-but-giving-up-on-meat-is-not-going-to-save-the-planet

 

I also find it amusing for those who think they're saving animals by removing meat from their diets. I honestly don't think people understand how pesticides work (or maybe they just don't care about the insects they kill), or how vigilant farmers are about eliminating critters that invade their crops (wild pigs, deer, various birds, rabbits, snakes, etc). No diet is ever going to be truly "cruelty free".

 

54 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

they in fight among themselves too, as to who has the best reasons for being vegan (environment, saving the animals, lifestyle choice etc.)  And if you dare post a recipe that contains something like honey for example, they really REALLY get mad.

 

How mad are various vegans in those groups about avocados? I read this article recently and found it amusing and was waiting for some sort of nuclear fallout from my vegan friends after posting it to Facebook, but it seemed to be ignored by all the ones that would want to argue about it

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/migratory-beekeeping-mind-boggling-math/

 

 

I honestly don't have any problems with people who make these lifestyle choices. I like to understand why people make the choices they do, though, and have healthy debate about it. Most people I associate with tend to have pretty solid rationale why they do certain things, or they say something along the lines of, "Eh... it's just something that works out well for me", which is just as good as any logical argument for me so long as they aren't ramming their lifestyles down someone else's throat (or their lifestyle choices aren't harmful to anyone).

 

 

@B1rvine, that's a pretty interesting article. Thanks for posting!

Edited January 21, 2019 by eigen-space

[Z1MZUM]

I honestly dislike eating any meat at all, However as a human being I feel I should eat meat to survive so I do. Usually in a format that doesn't look like part of an animal so schnitzel or sushi, But not steak or lamb. The smell of lamb makes me want to vomit after being the only meat I ate in the middle east for 18 months.

 

On topic, yes I've met plenty of vegan knobs, oops snobs. To be fair I freaking hate hippies, specially the vegan ones. I wonder why they have no energy or willingness to work? Well Duh.

[Mesopithecus]

10 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

I believe a part of it is stemmed by how we were raised. I myself grew up on all the famous brands of cereal, the pancakes, the bacon, the sausage and what have you. Because I am older I have had to eliminate Lucky Charms, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Frosty Flakes, Fruit Loops, Fruity Pebbles and all the familiar cereals since I can no longer eat them like I used to. I had to cut a lot of sugar off, because sugar in fact helps increase the chances of diabetes.

 

 

Yea, I definitely hear you on the cutting sugar.  I'll have the occasional sugary cereal treat now and then, mainly Halloween when Count Chocula is stocked but I used to be an absolute fiend for soda and I'd drink at least 5-8 cans of coca-cola a day.  Cut that out a couple of years ago.

 

6 minutes ago, eigen-space said:

 

How mad are various vegans in those groups about avocados? I read this article recently and found it amusing and was waiting for some sort of nuclear fallout from my vegan friends after posting it to Facebook, but it seemed to be ignored by all the ones that would want to argue about it

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/migratory-beekeeping-mind-boggling-math/

 

 

Oh I saw a few posts about this, the comments got so bad that the admins had to delete them all   

[Dauersack]

Veganism is a very radical diet, radical diets are always shit if you do them for longer than a week or two. I know vegans, every single one of them needs to take at least one kind of supplement to even survive, and then they wonder why I laugh every time they try to tell me about how healthy their livestyle is. Out of the vegans I know, only 2 are the annoying preacher type, one is even borderline militant, which is why I avoid contact with her because I can't stand it. I remember years back when we were on a journey together, she ate meat like the rest of us, then she met her new boyfriend who turned her into a vegan step by step in a matter of 1 year, and she was a pain to be around ever since. There are different reasons for why people became vegans, and with the exception of one, all of them are dumb as hell. I laugh the most about those who do it out of love for the environment, while they consume tons of soy products that are responsible for insane amounts of rainforest deforestation.

 

I am more tolerant towards those who simply can't live with the thought of being even indirectly responsible for the harm of animals. You can argue that all these animals are dying anyway, or that it is unnatural to not eat meat or eggs, but hey if they don't want it and are not bothering me while I eat what I want, who am I to hinder them in their freedom. I myself could never imagine going vegetarian for more than one week, let alone vegan. Not even mentioning the fact that every single piece of vegan food I got to try in my life tasted like utter shit, I am a big guy, I work out a lot and if I don't get enough protein (actual protein with high biological value, not some soy crap my body can hardly process) then I immediately notice a decline in my performance. Without the proper diet I also feel less motivated and energetic in general. My diet certainly is not optimal, but I am not having any health related issues as of now, I don't need to take any pills to stay healthy, and I don't really give a crap about the tiny amount of pollution the few pieces of meat produce compared to other sources. I take having a lot of muscles and some excess fat over looking like a walking corpse any day of the week, and I even get it cheaper since many vegan products cost a fortune.

[Helyx]

I think the main problem here is giving a shit about what other people think. I haven't given a shit since 2002, and it's pretty sweet.

[kraven_15]

The giant 'specials' board outside a local butcher got spray-painted with a giant "MEAT IS MURDER" by what I can only assume were vegans. 

I think if you have the need to vandalise someone else's property because it defies your views, you're doing it wrong

[DrHambone]

4 hours ago, Mesopithecus said:

I'm a vegetarian, I tried veganism but I like cheese too much and honestly vegan cheese tastes like sawdust 

 

GoVeggie has awesome vegan cheese! But I agree with you, I like cheese too much to give it up fully. I never really liked eggs or cow milk so that was easy to avoid. I've been an 'on and off' vegetarian for almost 2 years. My wife is almost fully vegan - she uses cheese rarely.

 

As for people concerned about protein, there is ton's of protein in beans. My wife makes a 3 and 4 bean chili and it has 35grams per serving. I love texturized soy - I've made vegan tacos before and our friends and family can't tell the difference. It's all about the seasoning!  

 

I definitely am annoyed with the self-righteous vegetarians/vegans. We were friends with one and boy was it annoying! I don't ever talk about it and my wife is low key about it.

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, dj_helyx said:

I think the main problem here is giving a shit about what other people think. I haven't given a shit since 2002, and it's pretty sweet.

 

If more people think like this internet forums would cease to exist.

[Stardroid]

Vegans are morally better though (not necessarily as the whole package but as in vegan v meat eater). And I'm not even a vegan. If people start from the idea that they dislike human induced animal suffering and change their diet to lessen that suffering even in the slighest, then that is more ethical than people who don't want to give up meat for their pleasure.

Edited January 21, 2019 by STARLOVE

[AJ_Radio]

26 minutes ago, STARLOVE said:

Vegans are morally better though (not necessarily as the whole package but as in vegan v meat eater). And I'm not even a vegan. If people start from the idea that they dislike human induced animal suffering and change their diet to lessen that suffering even in the slighest, then that is more ethical than people who don't want to give up meat for their pleasure.

 

Even if you got people to start the idea, cows are still being slaughtered everyday. Chickens, pigs, goats and other various domestic animals are still being slaughtered with their guts and skin used for human consumption.

 

Farmers would see a huge decline in business and the whole meat market would be suffering.

 

But I think your point is about getting more people to eat a little less meat and more vegetables. Not entirely scratching out meat.

[Stardroid]

Just now, Spaz said:

 

Even if you got people to start the idea, cows are still being slaughtered everyday. Chickens, pigs, goats and other various domestic animals are still being slaughtered with their guts and skin used for human consumption.

 

Farmers would see a huge decline in business and the whole meat market would be suffering.

 

But I think your point is about getting more people to eat a little less meat and more vegetables. Not entirely scratching out meat.

The point is not slaughter happening on an every day basis. It's to reduce that slaughter by any means a person possibly can. As for the dilemma about Meat farmers. Then you can ask the "what is more moral question". Supporting the needless suffering of animals through butchering leading them to involuntary deaths or forcing meat farms to find alernate methods to make money. I don't blame vegans for thinking the first option is the priority to work at. All power to vegans to be honest. Their ideology is pretty solid if you ask me and I may one day transition into a vegan myself.

[LucianaRosethorn]

I honestly can't stand Vegans, there no need to not eat milk, eggs, butter ect just because the animal didn't give permission. I mean, technically no one is actually a vegan.

 

Being a vegan means not using animal products, this isn't just food. That means you can't use clothing made out of silk or wool, can't use any products tested on animals and that includes medicine. They eat a lot of fruit and veg yet the farm it comes from probably used manure to grow the crops, little things like that means it's no longer vegan. I've never seen a person who has applied to all these rules, I've never even met a vegan. From what I can tell it's only certain countries where the trend is more popular.

[AJ_Radio]

3 minutes ago, STARLOVE said:

The point is not slaughter happening on an every day basis. It's to reduce that slaughter by any means a person possibly can. As for the dilemma about Meat farmers. Then you can ask the "what is more moral question". Supporting the needless suffering of animals through butchering leading them to involuntary deaths or forcing meat farms to find alernate methods to make money. I don't blame vegans for thinking the first option is the priority to work at. All power to vegans to be honest. Their ideology is pretty solid if you ask me and I may one day transition into a vegan myself.

 

A lot of people make the argument that slaughter is inhumane and we should be reducing it by any means possible.

 

There's plenty of farms that raise these cows, pigs and other domestic animals. You can argue that having such farms to begin with is inhuman especially if they're just there to get sent to the house and their remains sold in grocery stores and bought by the customers.

 

Humans are selfish. Most humans eat for their own pleasure. This especially goes to the meat market.

 

Vegans can be selfish too. In many ways they use up just as many resources as meat eaters do.

 

The fact is, our resources are depleting. If more people want to go to college and university to study to become scientists who can find alternative methods for meat farms to make money, then more power to them. And that's going to be more critically important as it's going to fall to us, our generation to do this. The older generations that are still around will hopefully not be there to see it.

 

But I don't want you to think that I'm selfish just because I'm a meat eater. As I said before I'm not entirely a meat eater, I eat plenty of vegetables. I don't support some of the ideologies that vegans have. In fact I think some of them are just outright bogus and selfish on their own.

[Stardroid]

40 minutes ago, LucianaRosethorn said:

I honestly can't stand Vegans, there no need to not eat milk, eggs, butter ect just because the animal didn't give permission. I mean, technically no one is actually a vegan.

 

Being a vegan means not using animal products, this isn't just food. That means you can't use clothing made out of silk or wool, can't use any products tested on animals and that includes medicine. They eat a lot of fruit and veg yet the farm it comes from probably used manure to grow the crops, little things like that means it's no longer vegan. I've never seen a person who has applied to all these rules, I've never even met a vegan. From what I can tell it's only certain countries where the trend is more popular.

Vegans are of the opinion that the milk produced by animals belongs to their offspring. It is common practice to take labouring cows away from the calf and milk that cow instead the mother cow feeding her baby. They are separated. So if vegans do not wish to drink milk to reduce this happening, than this is more ethical than drinking milk or eating products with milk for ones pleasure. You are right on the consistent part though. But then we still must ask the question. What is better? A meat eater or a vegan that does not eat meat, drink milk but has shoes with some animal products? The last still does more to reduce injustice toward animals than the meat eater. They are still more ethical.

 

All in all, I've got to say from my experience, the argumentation against vegans is usually very poor

34 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

A lot of people make the argument that slaughter is inhumane and we should be reducing it by any means possible.

 

There's plenty of farms that raise these cows, pigs and other domestic animals. You can argue that having such farms to begin with is inhuman especially if they're just there to get sent to the house and their remains sold in grocery stores and bought by the customers.

 

Humans are selfish. Most humans eat for their own pleasure. This especially goes to the meat market.

 

Vegans can be selfish too. In many ways they use up just as many resources as meat eaters do.

 

The fact is, our resources are depleting. If more people want to go to college and university to study to become scientists who can find alternative methods for meat farms to make money, then more power to them. And that's going to be more critically important as it's going to fall to us, our generation to do this. The older generations that are still around will hopefully not be there to see it.

 

But I don't want you to think that I'm selfish just because I'm a meat eater. As I said before I'm not entirely a meat eater, I eat plenty of vegetables. I don't support some of the ideologies that vegans have. In fact I think some of them are just outright bogus and selfish on their own.

 

It is common knowledge that vegans have a way lesser impact on the using of recourses than it takes to feed animals to then eat them. You can argue that these farms are unethical and many vegans will tell you that they are. Being a meat eater does not make you inherently selfish as antivalue of Selfish is not exclusive to ones diet. It would be a simplicaction and generalization to put that label on someone. However, when it comes to dietery ethics, it is definitely more selfish than vegans and I as a non vegan acknowledge that. I also do not know what you mean by "I don't support some of the ideologies that vegans have". They are relatively simple as in: reduce the suffering of animals, reduce the impact on the earth's recourses. All else is ideology that has little to do with veganism. You have any concrete examples of the ideologies within their ideology that you disagree with?

Edited January 21, 2019 by STARLOVE

[AiManiaTrophyhuntres]

Well I eat meat. It's a pretty small amount bc the only meats I eat in general is chicken, tuna, a bit pork and beef.

For my condition I have to eat an appropriate amount of protein and I am confident that the human being is and always was an animal that always lived from vegetable AND meat and it is neccessary, BUT we all indeed eat too much of it since a small amount is totally enough.

So I eat every evening a mixed salad with a small slive of chicken or some tuna, thats it. Some cheese maybe and oc eggs and thats healthy and all, but you don't have to eat a steak or something every day.

So there is the middleway. When I talk about lots of pple tell me I am almost a vegetarian and why not change completely, but I don't want to resign from protein of meat. Well and I like steak.

That doesn't mean I have no feelings for animals or the environment, in fact i reduced my consumption big time years ago bc of my love for cows ^^" and knowing the fact that I could never eat an animal I touched and loved before it died and could never kill it myself either.

 

That being said, what do you guys think of the laboratory meat?

As far as I know right now 100g costs around 100$ (manufactoring costs, I don't know the correct term in english sry) and they still work on that, but it's said is is real meat, cultured in a laboratory, it lived and was nutured, but it never was an animal, just "living meat". you can't taste the difference and bc it never was fed with  animal food and never lived the poor animal life it is even helthier. just very expensive and oc you cant purchase it right now.

I have hope for that. Animal farms will change into meat labs and the corn fields of animal food will disapper and can be used for something else. 

What do you think about that?

 

Would a vegetarian eat that?

 

 

[Dauersack]

6 minutes ago, Ai-ds_low said:

That being said, what do you guys think of the laboratory meat?

As far as I know right now 100g costs around 100$ (manufactoring costs, I don't know the correct term in english sry) and they still work on that, but it's said is is real meat, cultured in a laboratory, it lived and was nutured, but it never was an animal, just "living meat". you can't taste the difference and bc it never was fed with  animal food and never lived the poor animal life it is even helthier. just very expensive and oc you cant purchase it right now.

I have hope for that. Animal farms will change into meat labs and the corn fields of animal food will disapper and can be used for something else. 

What do you think about that?

 

 

Honestly, if it is affordable and has no health risks then I would not really care. I have no problem eating things that were previously alive, I would not have a problem with killing the animal myself, but I don't demand that the meat I eat comes from an actual animal. I would even eat fake meat, aka tofu or other vegan variants too from time to time if it weren't for the fact that it tastes like utter dogshit. With the current price, it will be a long time before laboratory meat becomes affordable and can actually provided in large enough quantities to satisfy the demand. In case of it ever happening, there will be a funny debate on what to do with the leftover animals, what the farmers who obviously can't switch to producing stuff in a lab are supposed to do then, and how vegans will try to find a way to cry about the laboratory meat too in some way because it is just kinda in their nature to ruin everyones mood.

[Caju_94]

Well, there was a recent time in my life where I tried to eat more vegetarian food, and eat less meat.

 

It was a really exhausting experience for me, looking at lots of dishes that I loved with meat and choosing plates that did not have any meat, knowing that I really like them, ending up eating a vegetarian dish in certain restaurants (At the time, I used to lunch at restaurants with my work colleagues). I tasted some of the dishes and I liked them, others, meh... I tried alternatives like seitan, tempeh meat and I found it really dry for me. So I came to the conclusion I will probably not stop eating meat, yet I can reduce some of my consumption and I prefer white meat over red meat, which is healthier and doesn't harm so much the environment like the red. As for other animal-based food, I just like too much cheeses, eggs and yogurt to let them go.

 

In my close group of friends I have no vegetarians or vegans. Yet, I know two vegan persons and sometimes I meet one of them twice a year. Since we cook together, of course we always cook a vegan meal (he is also a chef of some sorts, so he knows how to cook lots of stuff). He has his own reasons to be a vegan, and sometimes he talks about veganism, but he is not of these fanatic dudes that is always pointing his finger around and try to make us feel bad. He respects the fact that other people eat meat, and I already ate meat in front of him and he was ok with it.