One reason that Ratalaika Games, is good

[Breakingthegreen]

 

I wanna point this out because there's a lot of stigma around "trophy w**re" games, now let me be clear in saying that I am not defending games like: Slyde, Road Bustle, or Little Adventure on the Prairie; but I am willing to defend Ratalaika's output for one major reason.

These games would have a much lower chance to come to consoles if trophy hunters (or w**res if you're so inclined) didn't buy them. And I know some of you are thinking "it's better if the PS store doesn't have trash on it" but of the games I've played, a lot of them are worth the £2 I paid for them, rarely have they ever been unfun times. It's also worth considering that these games are ported from different indie developers and can make super interesting titles like Stay or One Night Stand. I brought this up because the latest game trailer released on the Youtube channel was of "Sumatra: Fate of Yandi" and the comments were full of Indonesian gamers reacting so positively to the representation, and I just thought that this indie title would have had no opportunity to come to consoles without the easy platinum model which is so often derided. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by breakingthegreen
link added

[JoesusHCrust]

I'm really looking forward to this game. I used to live in Indonesia and am a huge fan of anything linked to the country so I'm interested to try this game. 

[Troz]

IMO: Keep them on the store, don't give them platinums. It deters me because I don't want grubby platinums on my profile (anymore) so I wouldn't buy that game, but if it had a few gold trophies, and a nice 100%, sign me up!

 

EDIT: oh, and the multiple trophy stacks are excessive. don't like those

Edited March 20, 2021 by HYPERS

[Breakingthegreen]

13 minutes ago, HYPERS said:

IMO: Keep them on the store, don't give them platinums. It deters me because I don't want grubby platinums on my profile (anymore) so I wouldn't buy that game, but if it had a few gold trophies, and a nice 100%, sign me up!

 

EDIT: oh, and the multiple trophy stacks are excessive. don't like those

Part of what I'm saying is that without those methods, Ratalaika can't justify bringing over the riskier and more interesting games, after all we should be buying games that we think we'll enjoy first, and earn trophies on them second.

[Boooda]

I agree with the sentiment but the games should be able to justify their price through their merits alone and not because of manipulation of the trophy ecosystem. 

[postofficebuddy]

I actually agree. I own a few Ratalaika games myself (My Big Sister, Red Bow and Just Ignore Them) and my primary reason for owning them is because I watched Manlybadasshero’s LP of them and I wanted to support the dev. Also they’re publishing Heart of the Woods which is a VN that I already know is good since I played it on PC a couple years ago. Yandi looks pretty interesting too. I’ll probably pick it up eventually. 

[RedSkyKing]

Ratalaika Games are not good. They’re a company that have abused the trophy system (Sony is at fault here too) and it’s thanks to them that the numbers have become so ridiculously inflated that they mean nothing anymore. It’s also spawned a slew of trophy “whores” that complain the minute a platinum is a few minutes too difficult.

 

No doubt some of the games they publish are legitimately good. All that praise should be put on the developers, like Cloak and Dagger Games, not Ratalaika Games.

Edited March 20, 2021 by RedSkyKing

[SKiL_Clash]

None of the games I’ve seen published where necessarily bad. Some where stupid, but some are good little indie games. it’s just a bad business model they follow, and they only make money is because of the trophies. These games can still be good if they made the requirements for the trophies more challenging. 
 

I was ok with them for a little while. But after they made hundreds now? (Not entirely sure I stopped following them) It just looks sad on a trophy list. I stopped doing them and hid like 70 of them from my list.  I only played like 25ish games but most are region stacks. I would be at like 173 platinums if I unhid them all but I just don’t like looking at them anymore. 
 

I used to think that going for the platinum is all that matters, even if it was an easy game. But after they ruined trophy counts and how easily it is to get 100-200 platinums like it was nothing, it just gives a bad reputation to other trophy hunters, and I have to agree now. Enjoying the game is number one, but the satisfaction of getting all the trophies is better. But now that you can buy a game for 4 bucks, get 13 gold and 1 platinum in 30mins is stupid... I’ve been playing more longer known games as I feel attached to the game the longer I play. Ratalaika Games gives no emotion anymore and just a depressing feeling when I go and look at peoples lists for inspiration for new games and all I see is those titles. It’s sad and wish people would stop. 
 

but the games are already out there and I cannot attack anyone for it, as I’ve done it myself. But it’s just like Smoking, I may have quit and rehabilitating myself to not attempt it again. But even then I’m still going to look down on anyone else who still does it. I may not say it personally, but I’m going to think of you as a poor trophy hunter. I was able to quit, you can too and move on to better games.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by SKiL_Clash
Adding more

[AJ_-_808]

2 hours ago, breakingthegreen said:

*snip*

 

 

And how do you defend their practice of popping all the trophies without having to complete the game most if the time? Or that they abuse the region stacks to peddle more cheap platinums?

[Helyx]

2 hours ago, RedSkyKing said:

Ratalaika Games are not good. They’re a company that have abused the trophy system (Sony is at fault here too) and it’s thanks to them that the numbers have become so ridiculously inflated that they mean nothing anymore.

 

The developers that get published by @RatalaikaGames get to enjoy sales of their game that they otherwise wouldn't see revenue from. Publishing on all these platforms (and yes, multiple regional trophy lists) helps small independent game developers. Ratalaika uses their low price point and easy trophies to help push sales and keep developers funded to make more games.

 

Imagine getting your game published at a reasonable price and reaching people on multiple platforms, only to have some self-righteous trophy snob look down on your success simply because your game is accessible to gamers of average skill instead of being frustratingly difficult. Denying them their due respect is petty, especially if it's because someone placed arbitrary value on intangible trinkets.

[AJ_-_808]

@Helyx

I see what you're saying about the financial gains for easy multi region stacks, and that can even be applied to finishing the trophy list without finishing the game, but that also leaves a cheap and low quality reputation for that developer (whether they deserve it or not).   Would you consider the financial gain worth the poor reputation?

 

My personal opinion - it's kind of a hollow victory to make, for example, 1000 game sales if a large percentage of the people making those purchases only complete a small(?) fraction of your game.

Edited March 20, 2021 by AJ_-_808

[Helyx]

5 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

Would you consider the financial gain worth the poor reputation?

 

At the end of the day, they're a business. Their goal is financial profit.

 

The fact that Ratalaika stacks live rent-free in so many people's minds is a testament to their saturation and relevance in today's indie game market.

[B1rvine]

6 hours ago, breakingthegreen said:

I just thought that this indie title would have had no opportunity to come to consoles without the easy platinum model which is so often derided. 

 

With all due respect, that's a bunch of BS.

 

Games should be able to stand on their own feet without trophies. If a game is fun, interesting, and high quality, then it will sell regardless of what the trophies are. If it sucks and the trophies are needed to sell it, then it's just a pay to win trophy scheme. 

 

1 hour ago, Helyx said:

The developers that get published by RatalaikaGames get to enjoy sales of their game that they otherwise wouldn't see revenue from.

 

The fact that Ratalaika stacks live rent-free in so many people's minds is a testament to their saturation and relevance in today's indie game market.

 

So, why wouldn't they get these sales? If it's due to issues porting the game, that's one thing... but if it's because the game isn't good, then gamers shouldn't reward the dev by purchasing their product. I don't know anything about this specific game, but generally speaking, Ratalaika has given incentive for gamers to buy poor quality products, which isn't a good thing. While it's definitely competitive and tough for indie developers, the realization is that some devs aren't supposed to survive. The achievement system shouldn't be a shoe-in to make more money and stay alive, it should be, you know, an achievement system. 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by B1rvine

[Guest]

5 hours ago, postofficebuddy said:

I actually agree. I own a few Ratalaika games myself (My Big Sister, Red Bow and Just Ignore Them) and my primary reason for owning them is because I watched Manlybadasshero’s LP of them and I wanted to support the dev. Also they’re publishing Heart of the Woods which is a VN that I already know is good since I played it on PC a couple years ago. Yandi looks pretty interesting too. I’ll probably pick it up eventually. 

the games you mentioned are cool and kept me entertained, I actually enjoyed them

4 hours ago, SKiL_Clash said:

None of the games I’ve seen published where necessarily bad. Some where stupid, but some are good little indie games. it’s just a bad business model they follow, and they only make money is because of the trophies. These games can still be good if they made the requirements for the trophies more challenging. 
 

I was ok with them for a little while. But after they made hundreds now? (Not entirely sure I stopped following them) It just looks sad on a trophy list. I stopped doing them and hid like 70 of them from my list.  I only played like 25ish games but most are region stacks. I would be at like 173 platinums if I unhid them all but I just don’t like looking at them anymore. 
 

I used to think that going for the platinum is all that matters, even if it was an easy game. But after they ruined trophy counts and how easily it is to get 100-200 platinums like it was nothing, it just gives a bad reputation to other trophy hunters, and I have to agree now. Enjoying the game is number one, but the satisfaction of getting all the trophies is better. But now that you can buy a game for 4 bucks, get 13 gold and 1 platinum in 30mins is stupid... I’ve been playing more longer known games as I feel attached to the game the longer I play. Ratalaika Games gives no emotion anymore and just a depressing feeling when I go and look at peoples lists for inspiration for new games and all I see is those titles. It’s sad and wish people would stop. 
 

but the games are already out there and I cannot attack anyone for it, as I’ve done it myself. But it’s just like Smoking, I may have quit and rehabilitating myself to not attempt it again. But even then I’m still going to look down on anyone else who still does it. I may not say it personally, but I’m going to think of you as a poor trophy hunter. I was able to quit, you can too and move on to better games.

 

 

in case of an absolutely ruined account, it may be better to start a new one

[DrBloodmoney]

You know, it’s perfectly possible to just like games, regardless of difficulty. 

 

If a game engages me on the level it is going for, it really doesn’t bother me if the platinum is a 1% Ultra rare or a 99.99% gimme.

 

Ratalaika have some real stinkers on their books, and they have some gems, and a whole spectrum in between.

 

The same can be said for pretty much every publisher really.

 

Are Rata games directly competing with triple A franchise games?
Of course not.

Does that mean it’s impossible for a Rata game to be more fun than a Triple A franchise game?
Of course not!

 

I’ll go to the matt for Football Game or One Night Stand as being legitimately more enjoyable than some Triple A games I’ve played.

Sure, the short run time helps those games - there often isn’t time to get bored, but I’ve played big releases where I’ve gotten bored in a shorter amount of time than it takes to finish a Ratalaika game and had less than an hour’s enjoyment even over a 40 hour game, so it’s swings and roundabouts really.

I’ll take 30 minutes of fun in an hour long game long before I take 30 minutes of fun in a 40 hour game.

There’s no question that a profile full of nothing but Rata games is gross, and a little sad - but everyone has a line I guess.

 

I’m sure my profile looks minging to some Ultra-Rare fetishists, but It meets my standards for ‘healthy game living’  - some fast food, some fine filet, and a whole lot of bog-standard meat and potatoes.

 

I can say this for sure - there are games I loved, and games I loathed on my profile, but the difficulty, rarity, publisher, developer or the ‘reputation’ of the games is not a useful tool in identifying which is which.
I know the games I liked the most, and the ones I thought were pants. I also know, there a hell of a spectrum of difficulty across both lists!

In the end- if anyone feels the need to come at me about any of my Rata games, or my completion rate, or my overall difficulty of games played, so what?

I feel like I have enough of the tough stuff on there to stave off any attack with my head held high.

I’ve made a gaming career of playing whatever I fancy, for no reason other than I feel like I’ll enjoy it.

 

So, really, what else matters?

Edited March 20, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[EdinhoN]

4 hours ago, Helyx said:

 

The developers that get published by @RatalaikaGames get to enjoy sales of their game that they otherwise wouldn't see revenue from. Publishing on all these platforms (and yes, multiple regional trophy lists) helps small independent game developers. Ratalaika uses their low price point and easy trophies to help push sales and keep developers funded to make more games.

 

Imagine getting your game published at a reasonable price and reaching people on multiple platforms, only to have some self-righteous trophy snob look down on your success simply because your game is accessible to gamers of average skill instead of being frustratingly difficult. Denying them their due respect is petty, especially if it's because someone placed arbitrary value on intangible trinkets.

Honestly I don't understand the hate easy plats get, if you don't like them, simply don't play.

"bUt iT dEsTrOyEd tHe tRoPhY sYsTeM". How? Easy plats stop you from playing good games?

"bUt I wAnT tO cOmPeTe iN tHe LeAdErBoArD". If you want that you should understand that in every competitive stuff, there's a "meta-game", like it or not. You have to resort to the most efficient strategy accordingly to the competitive rules or deal with the fact you'll be handicapped in competition.

[Agent_Renegade22]

Nothing against Ratalaika games, I enjoyed some of them like I am the Hero, the Midnight series and Blasting Agent, still other games are really trash the only reason make some profits is because of easy peasy trophies and plats and I think we all agree on this one, not mentioning the infinite trophy lists stacks. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think on Xbox games have only 1 achievements list, so that's the only thing that bothers me a bit, those infinite trophy list stacks on PlayStation but simply because I think every game should share its own trophy list among regions and platforms unless we're talking about remastereds/remakes of course (for example I'm going for Dead Space series 100% but here on PSNprofiles I won't have a real 100% because of German stack of the game and hate this lol but surely not going to spend €15+ for a game I already own and going through the struggle of finding a German version + dealing with shipping etc).

But it is what is I guess.

 

P.S. Oh yes thinking deeper I also hate the fact there are games definitely harder that don't have a plat like Rayman 3 HD while you can get 20-30 Ratalaika plats instead of going for 100% on Rayman 3. There always were easy games also on PS3's prime days, but I think trophies now are really worth like shit... Personal opinion, peace everyone

 

[AJ_Radio]

The games need to be sold on their quality, not by what their trophies entail. There are so many titles published by this company that practically scream 'easy trophies' and there is a niche group out there who have bought said titles.

 

Some of the Ratalaika Games are good and I'm not saying every single game they publish is bad. But.... and this is a big but.... this is sort of promoting shovelware. Steam started it all by releasing half assed products that were broken on release. Sony is passing these games without a blink of an eye.

 

I can very well imagine that if these games had a trophy list that is equal in difficulty to say Shovel Knight, Rogue Legacy and other retro themed side scrollers, the vast majority of people here wouldn't even bother playing them. Which automatically tells me that they're going after quick numbers to chase the leaderboards. Oh yes, let me play and stack 50 titles that I can finish in under a week.

 

@B1rvine hit the nail on the head. Crap games that developers just made for a quick buck shouldn't be given a free pass so easily. So long as the trophy list is a 30 minute platinum then people will flock to them.

 

Since I quit doing 'EZPZ' games purely for the trophies a few years back, I've gotten far, far more enjoyment out of trophy hunting. Challenge yourself every now and then. Take a breather and play some easy games if you must or want to. Obviously that's just too much effort for some people out there.

[lcrystal__]

I think Ratalaika had a stroke of genius with its marketing. Found an unknown, hidden niche of gamers - trophy hunters - and laser focused on them, doing everything right: easy trophies in short games, stacks for days and not long ago I remember them engaging with the community here, further promoting their goods. I agree 100% with OP here, with porting to consoles, the devs have a new source of profits (and from what I have seem, the devs are really small). For the ones lamenting the "sanctity" of leader boards/ps store, not even Sony seems to care. Actually, with their own exclusive/first party titles getting easier and easier plats (Spider Man, anyone?), Sony seems to agree with Ratalaika.

[JoesusHCrust]

5 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

@Helyx

 

My personal opinion - it's kind of a hollow victory to make, for example, 1000 game sales if a large percentage of the people making those purchases only complete a small(?) fraction of your game.

I don't think this argument works. The vast majority of people playing 'triple A' games will only complete a fraction of the game. Before I got interested in trophy hunting, I only finished maybe one game in twenty. I think this is fairly typical. 

[HuntingFever]

I don't care how good or bad a game is supposed to be or who made it, if I think it's going to be worth the time and asking price to get it, I will but won't if it isn't. I've played plenty of Rata titles over the last couple of years and have found the good to bad ratio to be roughly 50/50, with the good games being really good to the point I stacked them a few times and the bad ones being bottom of the barrel stinkers I couldn't get rid of fast enough. I know I'm in the minority with this but if you take the lousy trophy lists out of the equation, you will find more than enough good games in Rata's back catalogue that it's easy to ignore the stinkers and pretend they don't exist.

 

Too many people these days are hung up on the value of leaderboards and trophies, to the point they now live in their own little bubble/echo chamber and spout off about something that frankly no-one really cares about. I retired from trophy hunting a year ago and it's the best decision I ever made, because now I have a much better sense of what games I actually like playing so can more easily avoid the time sink stinkers which used to tie me down and make me miserable.

Edited March 20, 2021 by HuntingFever
Update.

[Diddi89]

In general, Ratalaika has some good and fun games. Probably nothing that could keep you in front of the console for hours. But there are also a lot of people who just want to get a few trophies in between without having to make any particular effort. During the week this is often a way of compensating for the stressful workday when I don't want to be busy looking for collectibles in the evening. What is now a clear knockout reason for me are the really exaggerated region lists. It just comes down to more and more games and then at least four times more. As long as there are enough people (and there are) who play everything (see leaderboard) that won't change either. So I don't find it reprehensible, everyone has to decide for themselves how far they go. However, I also think judgmental statements sucks, not everything sucks and I have a lot of fun with a very large part. And in the end everyone decides for himself whether he is fooling himself or not.

[xIRockyRock]

In my opinion Sony should just remove trophy stacks and region stacks so you can’t platinum a game more then once. Would eliminate most of my concerns.

 

My 7 years of trophy hunting, can be easily beaten within 2 weeks now by stacking every game 10 times. lol

 

 

[GizMo_The_Great]

I don’t have an issue with Ratalaika games.

 

To be fair, I mainly purchased them back when they were PSVita and PS4 bundles.. specifically for the Vita version. Just to have something to pick up and play while I was out and about. 
 

Towards the end, Ratalaika was pretty much singlehandedly keeping Vita alive. 

The only Rata game I’ve purchased since they dropped Vita versions was Concept Destruction.. because it reminded me of the classic Destruction Derby.

 

But let’s be honest, we all know what we are getting with Rata titles.. a pretty easy platinum. But about 95% of the games I purchased, I continued to play after getting the platinum.

 

With that being said, I still have love for what Rata are doing.

They are bringing small independent games to a larger audience..

..in a world where big corporations release the same copy and paste garbage every year for £70, it’s nice to have these small little games that don’t cost the Earth, and offer some fun, albeit for a little while.

 

I would welcome a more time consuming list for the titles.. instead of getting the platinum midway through a game, getting it for completing it would be better.

 

But many of these games are so small and niche, that sadly they probably wouldn’t sell if they were not an easy platinum. But that’s more on us gamers, than it is on Ratalaika. 
 

If small independent titles like this sell atrociously with a challenging or grind heavy list. But sell like hot cakes when they have an easy list. It’s not a hard choice really. You can’t expect Ratalaika to hinder its sales based solely on the value some gamers put on easy platinums.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by GizMo_The_Great

[bosstristan]

The problem is not the fact that there are lots of short and shitty games out there, there will always be an audience for that. The problem is that these same shitty games come with a platinum trophy and / or lots of points / gold trophies, and more often than not, with multiple stacks.

 

If games like Mayo and Rataliaka (or however it's spelled) included just a dozen of bronze trophies and a single and unique trophy list, then fine, that wouldn't be much of a problem, the balance wouldn't be broken.

 

Only this is not what's happening, shitty games / devs understood that there was an audience not the games, but for the trophies, which drives their motivation towards the extrinsic and not the intrinsic (same goes for """trophy hunters""), resulting in a crapload of  "wh*re" games out there, breaking the balance of the virtual "economy" of trophy hunting (trophies become less and less valuable, intrinsically, mind you).

 

And whatever I may be responded with: yes, (some) people care about other people's trophy, this website (among dozens of others) are the sheer proof of it, and no, trophies are not only personal, the moment you display them, or show them off in public, it becomes a, wait for it, public matter.

 

I have very little to no consideration for people going for easy trophies merely for the sake of boosting their average / total count.

 

PS : Yes I know I have done this with 1 game (Sound Shapes) and that's something I would never do again.

Edited March 20, 2021 by bosstristan