Xbox Is Cracking Down On Easy Achievements

[thefourfoldroot]

All good, but somewhat ironic MS are doing this after they where the ones who started wishing achievement points for viewing ads and doing other non gaming related stuff.

[Banana_Sausage47]

1 hour ago, Floorkiller74 said:

 

 

Apologies friend. Poor choice of wording on my part. 

All good buddy.?

[GUDGER666]

1 hour ago, Asuka_Spirits said:

Imagine Ikemenzi’s face when 99.99% of his trophies get removed.

The people at the top would probably be devastated. That like a full day wasted. 

[Fiercethetear]

Prospectively, I think this will have a positive impact, as it is very unlikely that games of 3rd party publishers would have different trophy lists for Xbox and PS. So gotta applaud Xbox for doing this.

 

Retrospectively however, I do not see how this affects older games.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Fiercethetear

[Salt_AU]

Too little, too late. The damage has been done. I commend xbox for at least acknowledging the problem with a fix even if it is years too late.  

[MidnightDragon]

If Sony did the same, would make almost all the shovelware go away overnight.

[the1andonly654]

The amount of time that has passed between these games appearing and such specific action being taken just proves how insignificant achievements/trophies are to the companies providing them. 

The rules are good but you can't undo the damage that has already been done without some sort of a reset. 

[Startyde]

5 hours ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

The damage has already been done imo. The only way to have any competitive aspect to trophy/achievement hunting is to have competitions that exclude these games or for 3rd party sites like this to exclude them on a leaderboard.

 

The people who are like "Let people play what they want. It doesn't bother your experience" are only partially correct; some people simply want a competitive aspect to hunting and having these games DOES ruin their experience. It doesn't affect their enjoyment in what they play, but it does affect any enjoyment of competition or spirit in it. 

 

I don't agree with this logic at all. How is it ruining the experience or competition of trophy hunting if everyone is playing by the same rules? What is your metric for competition, plat totals? In that case, the people who like cheap plats are better competitors because they're spending the money and going the distance to get the most. They've outhunted you.

 

If you are unwilling or able to keep up, your metric should be rarity or personal importance. But pouting that people have bigger numbers and so they must be brought down is so asinine to me. If you want to keep cheap asset flip auto pops off the store fine, but this automatic culling of trophies people are discussing is literally the talk of madmen. 

 

This topic comes up every couple years. First it was regional stacks, then PS5 auto pops and now "I don't wanna buy these games so you shouldn't have them either." 

 

The cringe is the universal insecurity some hunters have. 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Startyde

[Vault-TecPhantom]

5 hours ago, Floorkiller74 said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure you can get points for 1 achievement a day, and you have to have gamepass (Edit: It also has to be a gamepass game, shovelware is not part of the program). They may have the occasional opportunity for more, but you don't just get points for achievements left and right. 

 

I'm not saying you get points for achievements left and right but it's easier than Playstation and these gamepass achievements also tie into xbox's daily/weekly/monthly missions which also award additional points. If this wasn't about the points then there would be no reason for xbox to crack down on it. Also, the Xbox achievement system now makes a point of comparing your achievements against your friends'. Shovelware makes that less competitive and devalues the live service esque nature of the xbox ecosystem. 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Vault-TecPhantom

[Pistol_WhippedXG]

3 hours ago, thefourfoldroot said:

All good, but somewhat ironic MS are doing this after they where the ones who started wishing achievement points for viewing ads and doing other non gaming related stuff.

Been achievement hunting for over 10 years on Xbox so far... when did this happen?

 

On topic, I'm very happy about the changes being made, but my concern lies in what a few others on TA mentioned on that news post. "Is Microsoft actually going to enforce these rules?" They've had policies regarding broken achievements for years, yet all the time more games release with broken achievements, and MS doesn't force them to fix it. Also, per their rules, 5k gamerscore is the maximum amount allotted for one game, starting at 1k, and being allowed to increase by 1k every six months. On January 30th, a shovelware game titled Cruz Brothers received an update increasing it to 6k gamerscore, and nothing has been said or done about it.

 

Hopefully this policy update is MS turning a new leaf and actually caring about the achievement ecosystem, but before I applaud the change, I actually want to see it in effect. 

[Gotakibono]

1 hour ago, the1andonly654 said:

The amount of time that has passed between these games appearing and such specific action being taken just proves how insignificant achievements/trophies are to the companies providing them. 

The rules are good but you can't undo the damage that has already been done without some sort of a reset. 

 

Absolutely agree. This has been an issue for half of the trophy system's lifespan, starting around 7 years ago if we cite My Name Is Mayo as the dawn of shovelware. It has been left to fester for so long that honestly the only way to truly clean it up would be a hard reset, but that simply isn't an option because of financial and logistical reasons. The only thing we can hope for is that Sony return to a more PS3 era approach to trophies, or even mirror Microsoft's approach. 

[MonaSaxPayne]

5 hours ago, JediKnight_327 said:

I'd rather they crack down on NG+ trophies.

Having to play an entire game again just for 1 bronze trophy to get 100% completion is an absolute pisstake.

 

hahahaha 

Callisto protocol is overdoing it

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by MonaSaxPayne

[Beyondthegrave07]

14 hours ago, Startyde said:

 

I don't agree with this logic at all. How is it ruining the experience or competition of trophy hunting if everyone is playing by the same rules? What is your metric for competition, plat totals?

It's true. Everyone plays by the same rules. I can't argue with you there.

 

However, what if I told you that the rules we play today are not the same rules that we played 10 years ago?

 

That the parameter of the competitors have drifted into a place where the game or competition we play now is nowhere close to the same competition that I fell in love with 10 years ago? 5 years ago?

 

In this case, the new parameters or rules put in place (aka the addition of shovelware games) HAVE ruined the fun of the competition. Because these did not always exist and the addition of these games have changed the competition into something meaningless and nonsensical and it wasn't always this way.

 

And, let me make it clear; I don't fault people who play them, judge them, or ridicule them for their choices. I'm not going to tell people how to spend their money. 

 

However, I can empathize with those who wish that the competition would go back to what it used to be because it's no longer the same thing that we were passionate for. It's warped into something completely different and if you can't see it, then you must've either joined the party too late or only played for the trophies themselves since the beginning and never cared about the games that awarded them.

 

I could also go into how these games are predatory for people with addictive personalities, how those buying them are just being exploited and being taken advantage of, how the flooding of these games ruins the stores and pushes people away from other indie games that deserve that money instead, but you're right. This has been beaten to death in other threads so let's just leave it here.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Beyondthegrave07

[Startyde]

55 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

It's true. Everyone plays by the same rules. I can't argue with you there.

 

However, what if I told you that the rules we play today and not the same rules that we played 10 years ago?

 

That the parameter of the competitors have drifted into a place where the game or competition we play now is nowhere close to the same competition that I fell in love with 10 years ago? 5 years ago?

 

In this case, the new parameters or rules put in place (aka the addition of shovelware games) HAVE ruined the fun of the competition. Because these did not always exist and the addition of these games have changed the competition into something meaningless and nonsensical and it wasn't always this way.

 

And, let me make it clear; I don't fault people who play them, judge them, or ridicule them for their choices. I'm not going to tell people how to spend their money. 

 

However, I can empathize with those who wish that the competition would go back to what it used to be because it's no longer the same thing that we were passionate for. It's warped into something completely different and if you can't see it, then you must've either joined the party too late or only played for the trophies themselves since the beginning and never cared about the games that awarded them.

 

I could also go into how these games are predatory for people with addictive personalities, how those buying them are just being exploited and being taken advantage of, how the flooding of these games ruins the stores and pushes people away from other indie games that deserve that money instead, but you're right. This has been beaten to death in other threads so let's just leave it here.

 

I know you wish to leave it here but you were very thoughtful in your reply that I had to follow up.

 

My issue as someone who has casually collected trophies since their inception is that the idea of ranked comparison has always been flawed and started way before "cheap plat games". I've mentioned stacks, autopops etc but before that were easy movie games you could rent and play in a day. Then Telltale games were made popular and people looked down on those as they essentially just required a playthrough in many cases.

 

So people started to drift away from total count and went to rarity but even then it's a flawed system. Bloodborne is classified on PSNP as an Uncommon Plat. Many who played it without a guide would disagree with this assessment of ease, but numbers are numbers. Same for Sekiro and many others.

 

My point is there is no one fits all approach for how people will judge the competitive nature of trophies. The ONLY solution is to add filters to the leaderboards or additional leaderboards that cator to certain tastes and profiles so players can find their niche to participate against and track it.

 

I agree that the nature of trophy collecting has changed, but it started far longer back than shovelware and the trophy sites didn't evolve to recalibrate. 

 

As a final note, as someone who comes from a family of ocd and addition, I can attest that trophies in general fuel addiction and ocd. We've all heard of ppl who won't play games based on trophy effort or availability which sours the entire purpose of gaming in many regards. But again, it's an issue that just didn't start with shovelware and won't end with their exile. My two cents.

 

Thank you for the great points and dialogue.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Startyde

[StewartBros]

9 hours ago, oswald41 said:

Its the internet not school nobody cares about grammer

 

Every time.....

[Infected Elite]

At the end of the day, as shitty as these "games" are and so on, people can spend money how they see fit. It's theirs. Plus if it keeps them out of trouble, that's good. That being said, at the end of the day, trophies and achievements are just a digital trinket/award that really doesn't mean much. 

[kenet_jose]

And people defend these under the guise of "letting people Plat what they want" or "Gatekeeping"

[fyiByas]

Achievements and Trophies are by no means perfect. Personally not just a developer problem but actually a Sony & Microsoft problem.

 

I think small time games shouldn't have 1000G or Platinum but hey it's not my judgement.

I think small games should have 400G or just Gold, Silver, Bronze.

 

Then again I wouldn't fret on it too much, yes shovelware that comes out abundantly does kinda suck.

 

It's more on whether you had fun doing it,  no sense in doing something that isn't fun unless you are masochist or just like doing things that have no meaning.

 

When it comes to brag rights I always look up to those that achieve things that not many have acquired. 

 

I mean if I was working at Sony and had the ability to change things I would've crack down on 

 

->Boosting for a hard to get Multiplayer Trophy before Sony / Dev cuts the wire. Then again I would've had a way to keep multiplayer games alive regardless of what platform and carry them on old system to new system. Would change my feelings toward Sony for certain IMO

->Getting same platinum on same game in different regions or systems. Just one title is enough regardless of what region you are in.

-> Mundane & Grindy Trophies should be categorized as such. Basically if you achieved this you'll get paid minimun wage...  yes that's right if a trophy is a job then you get paid like you are working at a job... 

 

If you are proud of your trophy list then I'd just delet it instant while you asleep mwahaha?

 

Heh 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by fyiByas

[Beyondthegrave07]

1 hour ago, Startyde said:

 

I know you wish to leave it here but you were very thoughtful in your reply that I had to follow up.

 

My issue as someone who has casually collected trophies since their inception is that the idea of ranked comparison has always been flawed and started way before "cheap plat games". I've mentioned stacks, autopops etc but before that were easy movie games you could rent and play in a day. Then Telltale games were made popular and people looked down on those as they essentially just required a playthrough in many cases.

 

So people started to drift away from total count and went to rarity but even then it's a flawed system. Bloodborne is classified on PSNP as an Uncommon Plat. Many who played it without a guide would disagree with this assessment of ease, but numbers are numbers. Same for Sekiro and many others.

 

My point is there is no one fits all approach for how people will judge the competitive nature of trophies. The ONLY solution is to add filters to the leaderboards or additional leaderboards that cator to certain tastes and profiles so players can find their niche to participate against and track it.

 

I agree that the nature of trophy collecting has changed, but it started far longer back than shovelware and the trophy sites didn't evolve to recalibrate. 

 

As a final note, as someone who comes from a family of ocd and addition, I can attest that trophies in general fuel addiction and ocd. We've all heard of ppl who won't play games based on trophy effort or availability which sours the entire purpose of gaming in many regards. But again, it's an issue that just didn't start with shovelware and won't end with their exile. My two cents.

 

Thank you for the great points and dialogue.

Sure, and thank you for your perspective as well.

 

I just didn't want you to think I was some sort of snob that just looks down on people because that's not it, and I hope that came across in my latter reply.

[Alos88]

13 hours ago, BlazikieronUS said:

I think the ridiculous amount of 5-50 minute games nowadays is cringe

I do think there are legitimate indie titles that can tell a meaningful/interesting story with alright gameplay in the space of an hour, but otherwise yes, absolutely.

[AJ_-_808]

3 hours ago, Startyde said:

it's an issue that just didn't start with shovelware and won't end with their exile.

Thing is, way back when it was Aab's Animals, Hannah Montana, and Terminator Salvation (this one i don't understand why it gets trashes - it's on my old account, and it's an actual half-decent game), the "trash plats" were relatively few and far in between.

 

Then came the stacks of visual novels which people basically bypassed all the dialogue (that they probably couldn't read anyway if it was Japanese) and used a guide to pad the numbers.

 

Then the age of rat. games, which honestly, the only "problem" was the platinum rarely required you to play more than a fraction of the game, plus a billion stacks of each.

 

Then the absolute monsoon of jumping asset swap games designed to specifically sell platinums to trophy hunters, and their stacks upon stacks of essentially the same thing over and over.

 

 

With every new iteration of "trash plat", it just seems like it grows exponentially and sinks to new lows (for lack of a better term).  It was only a matter of time before it broke the camel's back

 

What's worse yet, is people can rarely have a civil discussion about damn near anything without having others (on both sides of the line) start the holier than thou bs

Edited May 27, 2023 by AJ_-_808

[Merty]

3 hours ago, kenet_jose said:

And people defend these under the guise of "letting people Plat what they want" or "Gatekeeping"

Totally agree with you! My profile ain’t perfect but at least those good platinums I’ve earned make up for the easy ones. Whenever I had some money left I would just spend it on shovelware to boost my account a little since I had to start over. I’m not going to hide them or anything because I’m not a coward.

[Zid960]

14 hours ago, B1rvine said:

Sony needs to grow a pair and not only remove all this garbage from the store... but also remove the trophy history from PSN and all accounts.

 

A minis section should be re-launched -- or some sort of amateur community for early projects / tests / shovelware / super low budget games where people can pay for access to get all available content (or maybe even free) -- but WITHOUT trophy support for the games. Some of these titles can exist there.

 

 

Dude there are a few games that soft brick there system from being able to update trophies at all. Not to mention the games that trophies/game that are straight up broken.

Remember (dragon fin soup) a free PSN that like only 2 of 20 trophies work.

Sony don't give to $h!t if trophies work correctly. Quality control stopped being care for after shoe left.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Zid960

[Aodir]

Maybe it's just me but asking platform holders to enforce desirable trophy lists, something completely arbitrary and subjective to each of us, feels like a good waste of time and resources that could be better spent elsewhere, I don't know, maybe Sony could spend some actual time making proper lists for their PSP/PS1 ports for example, stuff like Pinball Heroes deserved a better list.. At the same time I'm just happy they got a list at all and just wish they'd at least made trophy lists on these mandatory for all of them.

 

Could argue that it's the trophy sites that enabled these easy lists to be a ''problem'', I'm not a betting man but I'd wager the minute the shovelware filter applies to the leaderboards it would simply kill the sales for them, and it would definitely be easier than having Sony actually care and retroactively remove them as some suggest here.. 

 

I say "problem" cause I honestly stopped considering it one, have learned to just ignore them over the past few years, the only problem for me is having to hide them on PS sales tracking sites when I browse the current sales..other than that they don't exist. Let the leaderboard top pagers deal with the grind on their own terms if that's what they enjoy.

 

6 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

With every new iteration of "trash plat", it just seems like it grows exponentially and sinks to new lows (for lack of a better term). 

 

That's a good sum up, I sometimes wonder what the next iteration will be, cause I don't see how it'll get easier than 1 minute turbo X plats.. then again I also thought rata was the end game for these so I guess there's always room for a surprise.

 

 

[Alos88]

The only thing left they could have do is literal autoplats- pretty animated wallpapers with trophies attached. But given the crackdown on these types of 'games' from both major players I'd say we've averted that.