Hades PS5 Trophy Thoughts

[Stardroid]

Another game I thought that would be a nice challenge that has some sort of God mode. Growing trends

[Vergil]

80+ runs. Hot damm

[No longer here]

bought the ps5 physical copy, i am too excited

[Gage]

1 hour ago, Stardroid said:

Another game I thought that would be a nice challenge that has some sort of God mode. Growing trends

 

Can always choose not to use it, or play with the Hell Mode setting if you want. ?

[FielVeredus]

For people who don't like God mode just don't use it.

 

i think accessibility of difficulty of this game is also a part of why it is resonate with more people, it just let you customize how challenege your game is always a good thing and already prove that this feature didnt decline a game design or enjoyment of people who want challenge game. even rarer in rougelike game to have something like this. I always dont understand why Souls game player just want their game unaccessible for other who just want to enjoy the game for begging easier mode.

Celeste is another example that also fantastic game with this kind of accessibility feature, so it is not make the game less fun for people who want challenge game.

Edited August 11, 2021 by FielVeredus

[Deluziion90]

I've been waiting forever on this game. Seeing it's a 80hr+ platinum makes it even better. 

[Killbomb]

2 hours ago, FielVeredus said:

For people who don't like God mode just don't use it.

 

i think accessibility of difficulty of this game is also a part of why it is resonate with more people, it just let you customize how challenege your game is always a good thing and already prove that this feature didnt decline a game design or enjoyment of people who want challenge game. even rarer in rougelike game to have something like this. I always dont understand why Souls game player just want their game unaccessible for other who just want to enjoy the game for begging easier mode.

Celeste is another example that also fantastic game with this kind of accessibility feature, so it is not make the game less fun for people who want challenge game.

 

I have nothing against developers wanting to make their game accessible to everybody BUT at least one trophy should require not using the "crutch" to complete the game so people can't use the God Mode here or say, Psychonauts 2's invincibility mode to get the Platinum. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Killbomb

[DrBloodmoney]

2 hours ago, FielVeredus said:

For people who don't like God mode just don't use it.

 

i think accessibility of difficulty of this game is also a part of why it is resonate with more people, it just let you customize how challenege your game is always a good thing and already prove that this feature didnt decline a game design or enjoyment of people who want challenge game. even rarer in rougelike game to have something like this. I always dont understand why Souls game player just want their game unaccessible for other who just want to enjoy the game for begging easier mode.

Celeste is another example that also fantastic game with this kind of accessibility feature, so it is not make the game less fun for people who want challenge game.

 

Totally agree - folks get so touchy about the precious 'sanctity' of their rare trophies and the challenge of their trophy lists...

 

...but in the end - if every single game out there had a "God Mode" accessibility option in it, negating all challenge, it's not like everyone would use them... we all started gaming in the first place because we want a challenge. We seek them out anyways, whether the trophies are there or not.

 

In the end, if every game suddenly got a God Mode, all that would do is return all discussions and considerations about games back to what they were before trophies - contingent on the quality of the game, and not the rarity of the trophies 

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[WildeNick]

Played it on Steam on release. It took me 70+ hours to get 100% achievements. As for difficulty, it was about 7/10 only in the beginning, first 15-20 runs or so, but after getting more perks from the mirror, upgrading weapons, game gets easier, maybe 5-6/10, even without god mode, but in my opinion game has an excellent balance of challenge.   

 

Overall, I would say that this trophy list is good. Keepsakes trophy is a bit grindy, but not too bad.

 

Besides the trophies the game is just fun. Game loop is very addictive, visual design is amazing, characters and voice acting are top notch. Seriously, when Eurydice was singing, I would stop and listen for couple of minutes. Voice of an angel. 

[AJ_Radio]

3 hours ago, FielVeredus said:

For people who don't like God mode just don't use it.

 

i think accessibility of difficulty of this game is also a part of why it is resonate with more people, it just let you customize how challenege your game is always a good thing and already prove that this feature didnt decline a game design or enjoyment of people who want challenge game. even rarer in rougelike game to have something like this. I always dont understand why Souls game player just want their game unaccessible for other who just want to enjoy the game for begging easier mode.

Celeste is another example that also fantastic game with this kind of accessibility feature, so it is not make the game less fun for people who want challenge game.

 

The only time the Souls games were a serious challenge was back when they were new. Guides and YouTube videos were far less plentiful. Today you can literally find a hundred different guides and YouTube videos that all point to the same trophies and strategies, you will find something that fits your play style. I didn't find Dark Souls that hard really, just the beginning hurdle. Once I overcome that I had fun.

 

This conversation has been beaten to the ground in all honesty. Celeste, then Hollow Knight, then Cuphead, and now Hades. Celeste was enjoyable. Haven't played the other two yet.

 

1 hour ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Totally agree - folks get so touchy about the precious 'sanctity' of their rare trophies and the challenge of their trophy lists...

 

...but in the end - if every single game out there had a "God Mode" accessibility option in it, negating all challenge, it's not like everyone would use them... we all started gaming in the first place because we want a challenge. We seek them out anyways, whether the trophies are there or not.

 

In the end, if every game suddenly got a God Mode, all that would do is return all discussions and considerations about games back to what they were before trophies - contingent on the quality of the game, and not the rarity of the trophies 

 

There are plenty of games on the PS4 with a bunch of rare trophies that aren't hard to get. It's honestly just a measure of how many people obtained something as opposed to people who didn't.

 

As somebody who grew up on the SNES and Nintendo 64, we have it easy now. Even going back to old games like Turok 2: Seeds of Evil aren't as hard now because there are internet guides for it. Certainly wasn't the case 20 years ago, when it was far more difficult to get help on a game you were stuck on. That was a big part of the challenge.

 

I know it took me ages to finally beat Goldeneye 007 on 007 difficulty. It was rough, but it was still an awesome game in its day. Having a God Mode would of completely sucked the fun out for me.

[DrBloodmoney]

 

2 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

I know it took me ages to finally beat Goldeneye 007 on 007 difficulty. It was rough, but it was still an awesome game in its day. Having a God Mode would of completely sucked the fun out for me.

 

This is a perfect illustration of my point...

 

 

Golden Eye had a God Mode built in: (R+Left, L+Down, Left, Up, Down, R+C-Left, L+C-Left, L+R+Left, L+R+Right, L+C-Left)

 

You just didn't use it - hence, exactly the situation I mean, you still sought out the challenge, whether there was a shiny prize at the end or not

?

[Arcesius]

4 hours ago, FielVeredus said:

For people who don't like God mode just don't use it.

 

i think accessibility of difficulty of this game is also a part of why it is resonate with more people, it just let you customize how challenege your game is always a good thing and already prove that this feature didnt decline a game design or enjoyment of people who want challenge game. even rarer in rougelike game to have something like this. I always dont understand why Souls game player just want their game unaccessible for other who just want to enjoy the game for begging easier mode.

Celeste is another example that also fantastic game with this kind of accessibility feature, so it is not make the game less fun for people who want challenge game.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing against accessibility options in games. Obviously games should be widely accessible for all kinds of players to be able to experience the content of the game. (One could now argue whether an invincibility mode really is an accessibilty option.. I don't think so, but that is a discussion that has already been had). 

 

What some of us are worried about is the current trend to include god-modes / invincibility modes that don't disable trophies, and the overall trivialization of trophy lists in big releases, but also more and more in indie games. I can count with one single finger the number of PS releases in 2021 that have a truly challenging trophy list and no exploits. 

 

Now, I will still play Hades. I have been waiting a long time for this game to finally come to PS (haven't played it on any other platform though), but I'm still somewhat disappointed by the lack of incentive to overcome a good challenge in the trophy list, and also to learn that this is yet another game that can be trivialized by a god mode. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Arcesius

[AJ_Radio]

2 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

This is a perfect illustration of my point...

 

 

Golden Eye had a God Mode built in: (R+Left, L+Down, Left, Up, Down, R+C-Left, L+C-Left, L+R+Left, L+R+Right, L+C-Left)

 

You just didn't use it - hence, exactly the situation I mean, you still sought out the challenge, whether there was a shiny prize at the end or not

 

I played this back in 1998. I wasn't aware of a God Mode back then as a kid.

 

The Train level was a nightmare on 007 difficulty. After you rescue Natalya you have to use your fancy watch to get out of the train before it exploded. The Jungle and the Control levels were also hard for me. Took forever to get past the part where Natalya reprograms the satellites.

 

Fun memories. When I played the game later on in life I used God Mode.

[Inuty]

I just love rouge likes/ lites. Have no issue with the Mode perse but i understand the urge to play it in a challenging way. I think with my expierience in the RL Genre i will play without the Mode

[ObsceneSociopath]

24 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

As somebody who grew up on the SNES and Nintendo 64, we have it easy now. Even going back to old games like Turok 2: Seeds of Evil aren't as hard now because there are internet guides for it. Certainly wasn't the case 20 years ago, when it was far more difficult to get help on a game you were stuck on. That was a big part of the challenge.

 

BEWAREOBLIVIONISATHAND

[DrBloodmoney]

34 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

 

I played this back in 1998. I wasn't aware of a God Mode back then as a kid.

 

The Train level was a nightmare on 007 difficulty. After you rescue Natalya you have to use your fancy watch to get out of the train before it exploded. The Jungle and the Control levels were also hard for me. Took forever to get past the part where Natalya reprograms the satellites.

 

Fun memories. When I played the game later on in life I used God Mode.

 

Oh - I remember - I was a big Goldeneye fan too - that ship level on the highest difficulty still gives me a shiver in my occipital just thinking about it ?

 

My point though, was that loads of those older games that you always cite as so much more difficult than modern ones, actually had cheat codes built right into them - which were widely available (the internet might have been in its infancy, but gaming magazines were in full force, and had lists of cheat codes as a major feature of almost all of them (except Edge, of course, which thought it was so above all that ?) 

 

Those games didn't have trophies either - but people still played without the cheats for a fun challenge - and I think that will never change. 

We are players of games. We seek challenge. If we didn't, we'd just watch movies instead.

 

I think that if every single game suddenly had a button you could push that unlocked all trophies instantly, yes, it would change sites like this one, but not completely - as I don't think everyone would use them.

Even if every games trophy list was completely trivialised in that way - the only effect would be that games would go back to being judged on merit - and peoples profiles judged on the quality of the games they play, and not the rarity of the trophies, or the brutality of the challenge. 

 

I know I, for one, tend to be much more impressed to see an awesome, eclectic mix of great games on a profile, than to see nothing but rare trophies on it, regardless of the quality of the games... but I also know I seem to be in the minority on that one (sadly!)

 

Sure, there are profiles with both - and that's double-awesome (see my little nod to head off @Arcesius , @Copanele , @Baker and the likes at the pass ?) - but there are just about the same percentage of great games that are rare as there are great games that are common as muck, so I can't really get excited about whether the 'integrity' of the challenge is maintained...

 

...I (and I think most others,) would still be choosing a difficulty that meets my own requirement for a fun challenge, whether someone else is playing on God Mode or not 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Bunkerbudy]

30 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

then Hollow Knight

Does this game have a god/easy mode?

[DrBloodmoney]

8 minutes ago, Bunkerbudy said:

Does this game have a god/easy mode?

 

No, but it has an exploitable glitch that grants some kind of temporary invincibility, as I understand it

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Miles]

2 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Totally agree - folks get so touchy about the precious 'sanctity' of their rare trophies and the challenge of their trophy lists...

 

 

Because players want to get rewarded for not taking the easy way out? Seriously whats the point of a trophy if not to represent a challenge that you have completed? Trophies keep getting more and more "accessible" might as well give us an option to auto-pop all trophies at any point so no player feels excluded... 

[DrBloodmoney]

6 minutes ago, Miles said:

 

Because players want to get rewarded for not taking the easy way out? Seriously whats the point of a trophy if not to represent a challenge that you have completed? Trophies keep getting more and more "accessible" might as well give us an option to auto-pop all trophies at any point so no player feels excluded... 

 

I agree - they might as well.

 

I'm fine with that - see my post above.

 

The reward for not taking "the easy way out" is that you get the challenge you came to gaming for in the first place, and get your money's worth out of the game you paid for.

 

In the end, if you God Mode your way through every game, then you will get out of each game exactly what you put into it - not much.

If someone is happy with that, so be it.

 

I'd still argue that God Mode-ing your way through something like Hades or Celeste is still a more productive and rewarding time than playing 20 Breakthrough games, and those have a far more material impact on things like the Leaderboards anyways, so it doesn't really matter to me anyways 

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Ya_Boy_James]

Back in my day playing video games meant slaying the real demons of hell with your own bare hands. Now people just look at a screen and push buttons. Really enjoyed vanquishing Hell IRL but knowing people will do it much more easily when this game comes out has ruined that for me ?

 

Came here in anticipation of this wicked game we get to play and instead people are complaining about an option in the settings... nice.

 

Think the anti-God Mode argument is getting closer to the point though

13 minutes ago, Miles said:

Seriously whats the point of a trophy

This game slaps I'm excited to play it again on console and I hope you are too.

[FielVeredus]

Btw, I am going to enjoy the 'hell' out of this. I hold out playing this game until it reach console by try out and refund on Steam. That no damage trophy seems hard?

[HusKy]

@DrBloodmoney I think you (and some others) are missing a point here. No one is arguing about the god mode itself. It's just that this type of accessibilty feature should disable (at least some) trophies. That's all.

 

We've seen a massive influx of easy lists this year. Hades had the potential to have a challenging list but alas that did not happen.

[DrBloodmoney]

4 minutes ago, HusKy said:

@DrBloodmoney I think you (and some others) are missing a point here. No one is arguing about the god mode itself. It's just that this type of accessibilty feature should disable (at least some) trophies. That's all.

 

We've seen a massive influx of easy lists this year. Hades had the potential to have a challenging list but alas that did not happen.

 

I don't think I am - my point is that it still has a challenging list - just don't use that mode...

 

...in the same way as all those hundreds and thousands of games back on the SNES / N64 / PS1 / PS2 which had cheat codes built right into the software were still challenging - provided you didn't use the cheats. 

 

The challenge remains the same. Only the rarity will change - and as someone who doesn't fetishise rarity, it makes no material difference to me whether such a mode exists.

That's all I mean.

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[MojoNJojo]

15 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The reward for not taking "the easy way out" is that you get the challenge you came to gaming for in the first place, and get your money's worth out of the game you paid for.

I disagree.

 

Question: If the reward for not taking "the easy way out" is the challenge itself, why do trophies exist in the first place?

 

Definition: trophy (adjective) - used to describe something such as a partner or a possession that is a symbol of someone's success or social position.

 

From Q + D we can easily conclude: The fact that trophies exist per se is proof that there ought to be a greater, more tangible, reward for accomplishing a challenge rather than the challenge itself. I.e. if the reward was the journey itself then we wouldn't have trophies in the first place.

 

Conclusion: your argument might only be sound if you would be trying to argue for removing the trophy system altogether, but it doesn't add any value to the idea that trophies should be accessible. Success and social position (according to the Cambridge definition listed above) is not something accessible to everyone. Similarly you can see that in sports trophies are also only awarded to the very best, and there is no incentive whatsoever to make them more accessible.