Xbox CEO just gives up

[Zephrese]

20 minutes ago, GardenOfSouls said:

Xbox end may be a problem for Sony, cuz they can get lazy. Liking or not, competition between them was always something that push Sony to do better and better games. But if it's no competition, product quality may decresse.

 

Thankfully that's what Nintendo's for.

 

Microsoft is doing way more harm to the industry (and its future as a whole) than good, so - although competition is good - keeping them around isn't worth it imo.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Zephrese

[Rozalia1]

57 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

Was skimming through the video looking for the point you said about enough knocks getting Phil fired, just because that'd be kind of a weird and amusing point for him to make... but I couldn't find it lol.  I'm sure it's there.

 

I give Phil some credit, he's being honest about Xbox being in third place and how he see's the future.
 

He's saying that Xbox lost the generation (PS4/Xbox One) where people really started building their digital libraries.  Now, unlike the old days where new consoles had different cartridges and discs, the libraries didn't carry over, and it was a blank slate or a new race with a chance at a different winner... that the Xbox is just perpetually in third place because there's no game they could make big enough to switch people over. It's the Steam on PC issue... people have thousands and thousands of games in their Steam library, and at this point, there's virtually no way for another PC storefront to come in and take it over.  No one is going to give up their entire digital library to switch, and it's even more dramatic for console considering the cost of entry.

 

21:32. He seems to abort stating it directly as he is just about to say it, but it was how I understood that sentence from him.

 

We can respect him being more honest than usual with these things, but having the boss come out with this talk is really bad. Someone who believes what he has come out with simply should not be heading the brand unless they've going to do away with it.

 

The problem with his statement even if it was to be argued that the PS3 turn around was before digital lock in, is that Nintendo exists. If you build good enough games then people will buy your console.

 

41 minutes ago, MaxieM0us3 said:

If it wasn’t of Xbox 360’s Xbox Live, we wouldn’t have gotten Trophies system, and that Sony stepped up their PSN features on the PS4. 

 

Dreamcast was the 1st to push online and with technology developing as it did that would have eventually come together without Microsoft, but I'll not take away those points even if they may have eventually come without them. What I believe @yowzagabowza means, and his follow up looks to be this, is that Microsoft's main developments have been negative ones. Paying for online on console is something that Microsoft popularised. The "moneyhats" that Microsoft loves to complain about today (while still doing them, just for gamepass instead) was popularised by them. People have been saying that big buy outs are the future of the industry because again, Microsoft is popularising big companies just buying out other big companies (hopefully this dies with their failure on Activision). If subscription gaming were to take over and lead to low quality games as many believe it would then once again be Microsoft having popularised a negative.

 

33 minutes ago, wardragon989 said:

Hi Fi Rush is an example. It succeed but Xbox act like it doesn't exist.

 

I didn't note it in the summation because I didn't feel it warranted it but he does mention Hi-Fi Rush. He of course praises it but also states that even though no one talks about it, Age of Empires is played more than Hi-Fi Rush is on Xbox. The overriding narrative I've taken based on Xbox's performance and what he has said here is that Xbox aims to have "diversity of content" which Hi-Fi Rush totally is a part of, however as long as they are constrained to the console market then they will not be successful because the majority of Xbox players do not want that diversity of content. As such Xbox needs to expand their gaming to PC, phones, TVs, your toilet and bring in new customers who'll be attracted by that diversity of content. Xbox if they focused on their core audience would certainly be more successful, but not successful enough to keep Microsoft happy.

[sepheroithisgod]

Point 6 and 17 tell me this guy needs to step down. He lives in a bubble if he thinks the bugs in Redfall are in a normal range and if that's his standard for a "good game" Xbox has no hope.

[ZenaxPure]

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

17: People say that you just need to make great games and people will buy your console. This is simply not true.

 

I mean I guess on the most technical level there is no guarantee that people will buy your console if you make great games... but it certainly doesn't hurt your chances.

 

This kind of mentality has always bugged me. I bought a 360 back in the day because in the early years they were investing into Japanese games (Lost Odyssey, Last Remnant, Tales of Vesperia, etc.) I was gonna get a Xbox One when Scalebound came out (RIP) and I would absolutely get a Series X if there were more games like HiFi Rush (which even if I didn't think was perfect or anything it is one of my favorite games of the year so far) coming out for the console.

 

Games sell consoles, maybe not for everyone but certainly for a lot of people.

[Jermster_91]

1 hour ago, MaxieM0us3 said:

If it wasn’t of Xbox 360’s Xbox Live, we wouldn’t have gotten Trophies system, and that Sony stepped up their PSN features on the PS4. 

 

I mean trophy hunting is a hobby, similar to model talks, planes, etc. Some are into it and others are not. 

 

I can say this, if there were no trophies on Playstation games, I would be able to play more diverse games. There are some games that look interesting but will not play because of the trophies associated with them.

[Miojo666]

While I'm still pleased with gamepass as a whole, I'm pretty bummed by the current state of first party microsoft. They buy all these studios that did great work in the past and they start releasing mediocre crap, it's baffling. And I don't even know how they do it, it's like they force the studios to make garbage. I feel if the activision deal goes through they'll manage to break call of duty. And that will be an achievement in and of itself since you just need to reskin the same gameplay every year to make CoD.
Hopefully someone can still steer this ship around and focus on making good games, but these ppl are all about the metrics, if more people downloaded redfall than hi fi rush on the first 4 hours after release a board room somewhere is going to interpret that rushing stuff out the door is the way.

[EmperorZetta]

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

17: People say that you just need to make great games and people will buy your console. This is simply not true.

[Slava]

Congrats to SnowBikeMike for getting to talk to Phil. Probably a big moment for him (unless he's done that already, I haven't followed KF in a while).

 

There's a lot to say on each point.

 

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

15: Xbox has a different vision. States that there is no way for them to "out console" Sony or Nintendo.

 

Usually he'd say it like "We didn't finish third, we were actually running in another direction". This sounds closer to the sad reality.

 

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

14: At the Starfield direct they will state if the game will be 30 or 60 frames.

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

19: There is no world where Starfield is a 11/10 and it makes the console market share shift.

 

I've had a feeling that Starfield would be the next Cyberpunk. But now I don't know. Starfield is too important for them now. If this game has a single significant issue at launch, Xbox is finished for the rest of this generation. Hellblade, Fable, Perfect Dark, Forza Motorsport, Avowed won't be able to sell as many potential consoles and/or Game Pass subsriptions. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

11: Thinks the Xbox showcase will be great and that they should finally be through the Covid issues.

 

Forza release date, I assume. Hellblade 2 was revealed almost 4 years ago, so it's probably next to get a release date. But what else. Avowed has had some internal delay or even reboot, I heard. Perfect Dark's studio The Initiative is crumbling, according to reports. Undead Labs was not heard from in a long time. IDK about next Gears.

 

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

4: Delays would not have helped Redfall.

 

Bruh. 

 

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

17: People say that you just need to make great games and people will buy your console. This is simply not true.

 

BRUH.

 

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

18: States that their loss in the PS4/Xbox One generation was the worse generation to lose due to digital lock in. Seemingly that dooms them going forward so they need to find new gamers.

 

Interesting thought, and I think I'll partially agree. What about the PS360 gen though. When the digital era began.

 

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

16: Doesn't name Sony but states that they've got deals signed with third parties to make things very difficult for them, but admits that ultimately it is their fault that can happen.

 

Indeed. If Sony can strike exclusivity deals, so can Microsoft. For example, Spider-Man coud've been their IP, according to some reports, but they refused. Now Spider-Man comes up in the online argument about exclusivity almost as often as Final Fantasy. Xbox has been doing better with hot and popular smaller games recently like Vampire Survivors and Powerwash Simulator which both made their way to Game Pass, I'll give them that.

[PalaceOfLove706]

1 hour ago, yowzagabowza said:

Pfff, very unlikely and ridiculous to suggest 

Why do you say it’s unlikely? You think Sony and Nintendo would have just given up their proprietary memory card revenue? You said Microsoft has done nothing to advance the gaming industry. I gave you an example that they did. 

[yowzagabowza]

7 minutes ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

Why do you say it’s unlikely? You think Sony and Nintendo would have just given up their proprietary memory card revenue? You said Microsoft has done nothing to advance the gaming industry. I gave you an example that they did. 

Yes, I think Sony and Nintendo would have realized that a HDD was better for their systems as technology advanced. 

I'll give you that MS did it first. That's one point for them but there are still countless points against them. 

[Rozalia1]

8 minutes ago, ZenaxPure said:

I mean I guess on the most technical level there is no guarantee that people will buy your console if you make great games... but it certainly doesn't hurt your chances.

 

This kind of mentality has always bugged me. I bought a 360 back in the day because in the early years they were investing into Japanese games (Lost Odyssey, Last Remnant, Tales of Vesperia, etc.) I was gonna get a Xbox One when Scalebound came out (RIP) and I would absolutely get a Series X if there were more games like HiFi Rush (which even if I didn't think was perfect or anything it is one of my favorite games of the year so far) coming out for the console.

 

Games sell consoles, maybe not for everyone but certainly for a lot of people.

 

It is a comment I'm seeing a lot of. How would Phil Spencer know this when he hasn't even tried.

 

Those games you mentioned during the 360 days were certainly them on the correct path but as usual the results they wanted didn't come quick enough so they just gave up. Xbox management should know that Nintendo and Sony didn't just one day suddenly have a massive reputation for good games that sell their platforms. They got there by making good games consistently over a long period of time. Xbox however either doesn't want to put in the work or worse does not believe that they could do it even if they tried, hence all the buyouts they're doing.

 

10 minutes ago, Miojo666 said:

While I'm still pleased with gamepass as a whole, I'm pretty bummed by the current state of first party microsoft. They buy all these studios that did great work in the past and they start releasing mediocre crap, it's baffling. And I don't even know how they do it, it's like they force the studios to make garbage. I feel if the activision deal goes through they'll manage to break call of duty. And that will be an achievement in and of itself since you just need to reskin the same gameplay every year to make CoD.
Hopefully someone can still steer this ship around and focus on making good games, but these ppl are all about the metrics, if more people downloaded redfall than hi fi rush on the first 4 hours after release a board room somewhere is going to interpret that rushing stuff out the door is the way.

 

Xbox back in the day were blamed for being too "hands on" which results in some failures. After being hands off with Mojang and that turning out fine they patted themselves on the back for finally figuring out how to handle buyouts. Largely nothing but messes at the studios they own ever since.

 

A comment he made in this interview stated that he isn't going to be telling a studio to stick to what they're good at, even if as we've clearly seen, branching out resulted in a terrible game. These studios used to have some oversight and have largely stopped having it hence all the issues.

 

18 minutes ago, Jermster_91 said:

I mean trophy hunting is a hobby, similar to model talks, planes, etc. Some are into it and others are not. 

 

I can say this, if there were no trophies on Playstation games, I would be able to play more diverse games. There are some games that look interesting but will not play because of the trophies associated with them.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, but you can always use a second account to play them on.

 

13 minutes ago, Slava said:

Usually he'd say it like "We didn't finish third, we were actually running in another direction". This sounds closer to the sad reality.

 

Interesting thought, and I think I'll partially agree. What about the PS360 gen though. When the digital era began.

 

Indeed. If Sony can strike exclusivity deals, so can Microsoft. For example, Spider-Man coud've been their IP, according to some reports, but they refused. Now Spider-Man comes up in the online argument about exclusivity almost as often as Final Fantasy. Xbox has been doing better with hot and popular smaller games recently like Vampire Survivors and Powerwash Simulator which both made their way to Game Pass, I'll give them that.

 

Either he has realised it ain't good to do or Microsoft has (finally) told him to not do it further. The CMA used many of Spencer's previous comments about them actually totally being ahead and not behind against Microsoft.

 

Word is that as they were preparing for the Xbox One era management believed that their "ecosystem" was "sticky" enough to where they basically could do whatever. Xbox then went on to get clobbered. Now in the current generation they've gotten clobbered again and its now that we're hearing this narrative. Its possible that "digital lock in" only triggered during the PS4/Xbox One era, but at the same time it could be that it existed also during the PS3/60 era but as Xbox got hammered the generation after (they shouldn't have been if digital lock in is so powerful) they're pretending it didn't exist then.

 

Reportedly what has been hampering Xbox is that they tie their exclusivity deals to gamepass, something that a number of companies don't want to tie the releases of their games to. If so then that is entirely self inflicted as they certainly don't have to do that.

 

7 minutes ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

Why do you say it’s unlikely? You think Sony and Nintendo would have just given up their proprietary memory card revenue? You said Microsoft has done nothing to advance the gaming industry. I gave you an example that they did. 

 

Funny you should mention that as Microsoft is the one running with proprietary drives today which are both more expensive and worse than ones for the PS5. The decline of physical media, the size of games, patches, so forth would have lead to them moving away from memory cards eventually in the scenario where the PS3 had them. As @DrBloodmoney stated, we can give credit to them and all, but it'd have happened without them.

[Valzentia]

Jesus this entire thread is full of brainworms...

 

*ahem*

 

Sony and Nintendo would have never given up that sweet, sweet memory card revenue. The OG Xbox having a hard drive got Sony and Nintendo's heads out of their asses (and would have probably gotten Sega's head out of their asses too if their dumbass management didn't decide to leave hardware entirely). Xbox getting complacent pushes Sony to do better. Nintendo alone isn't going to do that because they've been in their weird "doing our own thing lol" corner since the release of the Wii; they've been targeting an entirely different set of people since 2006 and considering how successful the Switch is they sure as hell aren't changing that anytime soon.

 

So yeah, Microsoft is good for the gaming industry as long as their more spectacularly stupid ideas (e.g. the Activision Blizzard acquisition) are reigned in by antitrust firms.

[Breakingthegreen]

My reaction to Phil after his terrible week here.

 

 

 

[Zephrese]

24 minutes ago, Valzentia said:

Jesus this entire thread is full of brainworms...

 

If you say so.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Zephrese

[ExHaseo]

Oof. Just reading the cliff notes shows why they've done so poorly. They're so disconnected from what they actually should be doing, and what has given Nintendo and Sony success. Like, delaying a game to make it better would have helped. Showing off graphics that the game can't actually handle is something that was learned years ago as a bad thing to do.

 

And finally, good games are why people buy consoles. They just are. Every console I've ever bought, I bought for a specific game.

PS2 - Kingdom Hearts.

Dreamcast - Sonic Adventure.

Gamecube - Smash Bros. Melee
Xbox - Halo

DS - The World Ends With You

3DS - Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance

Wii - Mario Galaxy

PS3 - Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm

360 - Halo 3

Wii U - Bayonetta 2

PSP - Monster Hunter Freedom Unite

Vita - Monster Hunter that never got localized lol

PS4 - Bloodborne

Xbone - Halo 4 (which I then sold because there was nothing else after this and Sunset Overdrive, both of which were disappointments)

Switch - Smash Bros Ultimate

PS5 - FFVII Rebirth

 

What do all of these games have in common? They're all exclusive high quality games. Would you look at what's missing? Oh right, a XBX or whatever. Because there's nothing on it. And which console did I sell? Oh right, the one that had nothing on it. Even if there was something I wanted on either of them, everything is also on PC. So there's just no reason to buy either console. They just need to make good games, and actually make them exclusive to the console. Then people will buy the console. There's a reason Sony takes a loss on a lot of the best games on their consoles in recent years. They put a ton of money into making top tier games as a way of marketing the console. Once people buy the console, then Sony makes their money off of everything else. It's really not that difficult and MS has the money to do it. If they just threw money at their exclusive games, instead of trying to just buy 3rd parties, they'd be way better off. Because even buying 3rd parties isn't going to do a whole lot for them. Nintendo and Sony will always have the better exclusives. And exclusives are why people buy and stick with consoles.

[AJ_-_808]

1 hour ago, Jeanoltt said:

 

 

I'm thankful for what he has done, as he made Xbox accesible, put streaming on the map, backwards compatibility, indirectly made Sony & Nintendo create their own subscription service (and also BC on the PS5), etc.

 

 

 

Actually, Sony started backwards compatibility with ps2.  Launch ps3 was also backwards compatible.

 

That ended with the ps4 due to ps3 cell architecture, but it's back with ps5

[KILLERMACHINE666]

You go discus xbox on Playstation page that we wonth throphys is such bulshit to lol

 

[Dreakon13]

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

The problem with his statement even if it was to be argued that the PS3 turn around was before digital lock in, is that Nintendo exists. If you build good enough games then people will buy your console.

 

Nintendo has too long of a history and too fiercely loyal of a userbase to honestly draw a comparison.  They're almost in their own category as far as gaming goes and not really direct competition to Xbox, Playstation or PC.

 

If the answer is "just be Nintendo" then you're underestimating the totally unrealistic mountain that would be to climb.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Dreakon13

[Ashande]

39 minutes ago, Valzentia said:

Jesus this entire thread is full of brainworms...

 

*ahem*

 

Sony and Nintendo would have never given up that sweet, sweet memory card revenue. The OG Xbox having a hard drive got Sony and Nintendo's heads out of their asses (and would have probably gotten Sega's head out of their asses too if their dumbass management didn't decide to leave hardware entirely). Xbox getting complacent pushes Sony to do better. Nintendo alone isn't going to do that because they've been in their weird "doing our own thing lol" corner since the release of the Wii; they've been targeting an entirely different set of people since 2006 and considering how successful the Switch is they sure as hell aren't changing that anytime soon.

 

So yeah, Microsoft is good for the gaming industry as long as their more spectacularly stupid ideas (e.g. the Activision Blizzard acquisition) are reigned in by antitrust firms.

 

Strange, because the PS2 Network Adapter first launched in July of 2001, which provided a hard drive port. Several titles were released that installed the game to the hard drive and saved game data on it. Yes, it was an optional upgrade and didn’t catch on like gangbusters, but it was there and Sony still had hard drive dreams before the Xbox was being spoken of, and realized the initial concept before the Xbox landed.

 

Then move into the next generation, where PS3 didn’t have memory cards at all and all came with a built-in hard drive - an idea that I doubt was fresh and new and based on the success of the original Xbox - while the 360 was still selling proprietary memory cards, not every console included a hard drive, and the hard drive was also proprietary while you can stop in Best Buy, pick up whatever hard drive you want, and pop it in your PS3 with no issue. We’re not even going to talk about those ridiculous proprietary drives for the Series S/X.

 

So, it seems like Sony was already on the way to moving away from that sweet, sweet memory card revenue… while Microsoft is still leeching off of it.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Ashande
Grammar correction

[Miojo666]

42 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

Xbox back in the day were blamed for being too "hands on" which results in some failures. After being hands off with Mojang and that turning out fine they patted themselves on the back for finally figuring out how to handle buyouts. Largely nothing but messes at the studios they own ever since.

 

A comment he made in this interview stated that he isn't going to be telling a studio to stick to what they're good at, even if as we've clearly seen, branching out resulted in a terrible game. These studios used to have some oversight and have largely stopped having it hence all the issues.

Meanwhile they have a studio that's entiretly dedicated to doing halo and another entirely dedicated to making gears of war and nothing else ?.
It's like they're playing every hand to see what sticks and losing at all tables at the same time

[Cryogenicide_X]

This is the most important thing he said guys,

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Cryogenicide_X

[KILLERMACHINE666]

That they just stop stupid war i believe must they get agreement together work together they atleast dnt screw gamers let play on what want than go do silly wars 

[majob]

2 hours ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

You’d still be buying memory cards if the OG Xbox had never been released. 

Sony released their hard drive expansion for the PS2 in japan before the xbox even debuted.

[Alos88]

1 hour ago, Valzentia said:

Jesus this entire thread is full of brainworms...

 

*ahem*

 

Sony and Nintendo would have never given up that sweet, sweet memory card revenue. The OG Xbox having a hard drive got Sony and Nintendo's heads out of their asses (and would have probably gotten Sega's head out of their asses too if their dumbass management didn't decide to leave hardware entirely). Xbox getting complacent pushes Sony to do better. Nintendo alone isn't going to do that because they've been in their weird "doing our own thing lol" corner since the release of the Wii; they've been targeting an entirely different set of people since 2006 and considering how successful the Switch is they sure as hell aren't changing that anytime soon.

 

So yeah, Microsoft is good for the gaming industry as long as their more spectacularly stupid ideas (e.g. the Activision Blizzard acquisition) are reigned in by antitrust firms.

If you're going to accuse other people of being wrong you should probably make absolutely sure you're right first.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Alos88

[TJ_Solo]

4 minutes ago, KILLERMACHINE666 said:

That they just stop stupid war i believe must they get agreement together work together they atleast dnt screw gamers let play on what want than go do silly wars 

 

It is business and is only war as a euphemism.  
Businesses tend to not help their direct competitors. Especially when you consider why both Sony and MS entered console gaming to begin with.

 

Coke will do whatever they can to get more or better shelfspace than Pepsi in a store. And don't let a rep come into the store and see their competitor's product in the space they pay for.

 

Nothing about them "getting along" will be beneficial to you as a gamer. The intent behind business is maximize profit, not maximize customer feelings.