soultaker655

What actions make a community toxic?

72 posts in this topic

In the past 10 years or so there has been an increased discussion around how much perceived toxicity there is in the various gaming communities. However, when I try to think up what actions any specific community or person in the community does that is "toxic" I draw a blank. So what actions can a community do that makes it a "toxic community"? What actions can a person do that would make them a "toxic person"?

Is being loud and/or salty and/or childish on the mic "toxic"?
Is sending salty/childish messages after the fact "toxic"?

Is saying racist/sexist/xxxxphobic things on mic to trigger/intentionally upset people "toxic"?

Is playing the game the wrong way/a different way "toxic"?

Is "gatekeeping"/withholding info about the game "toxic"?

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1 hour ago, BlindMango said:

I've always hated the word "toxic", I've always found it to mean the following: "Someone is saying/doing something I personally don't like/agree with"

 

Gaming communities have always been the wild west, with good and bad players, and everyone always has their own personal definition of what "toxic" means :P 

I have sorta the same diplomatic perspective as mango. 

 

Although I think that being a sore loser by blaming others for losing and yelling obscenities at them is considered as pretty extreme behaviour to me. 

Edited by PooPooBlast
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12 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

I've always hated the word "toxic", I've always found it to mean the following: "Someone is saying/doing something I personally don't like/agree with"

 

Gaming communities have always been the wild west, with good and bad players, and everyone always has their own personal definition of what "toxic" means :P 

 

Fair, but I think that there are certain actions that most mature people would generally agree ruins the experience for everyone. There is no harm in labelling that as toxic.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

I've always hated the word "toxic", I've always found it to mean the following: "Someone is saying/doing something I personally don't like/agree with"

 

Gaming communities have always been the wild west, with good and bad players, and everyone always has their own personal definition of what "toxic" means :P 

 

Well lots of words can mean "there's a disagreement occurring". There are levels to disagreement. Some disagreements can be playful, respectful, and/or intellectual. While other disagreements can be hateful and vile. Toxic can fit and depends on the interactions. It also can be misapplied or used only as a personal attack. Those two ways might be what you're referring to. 

 

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My perception of it isn't pertaining to any specific game or genre, but rather the community as a whole.  Toxicity doesn't come from liking or disliking a game or a couple of kids trash talking in-game.  Toxicity comes from institutionalized negativity.  The unwritten and (vocal) majority agreed upon idea that it's more fun, sociable and/or productive to gang up together in hating something (whether it's hating a game, hating a publisher/developer, hating people that hate a game, etc) than it is to just enjoy the things that you enjoy and to let others enjoy the things they enjoy in peace.

 

You can be "diplomatic" about it.  You can pretend it doesn't exist and think everyone who thinks it does are just butthurt about something.  You're kidding yourself though, and frankly that kind of enabling is a big part of the problem.

Edited by Dreakon13
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Topics like these eventually turn toxic?  :hmm:

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I think  that it varies with time, situation and most importantly person/culture.

(Many) Years ago I founded an international competitive clan and what's described today as "toxic" was called trashtalking, said action was used by players of all nations  to mentally distract your opponent  during the game in order to boost your chances to win, the way  I see it, it added  another layer to skill  into mental stamina, or mushin, if you prefer fancy terms,  which is interesting on itself because it shows that not only toxicity can be variable, but so is enjoinment, there are people who enjoy playing the game normally, while there are other people who enjoy winning at any legal cost. I don't think you can quantify on an objective level what is toxic, just like enjoinment because it varies from person to person for example:

A salty person may even come as a form of added enjoinment for some.

A social insult may have no meaning to someone from another country, for example, "old white men" is seen  differently  than say America (actually, saying white itself here is very racist   in Italy  due to it making no distinction between say an italian or german but I used this example because I noticed the word gets thrown around quite often in the Anglo hemisphere)  due to them mostly voting the left wing, just like more women vote right wing  than left wing or the italian variant of the n word  can be said freely, which is very different than say America, it's a case of different cultures bringing different perspectives which then translates to different aversions  regarding certain words or actions.

You make an interesting case with withholding informations, and I'm afraid I cannot give you an unbiased answer, because yes, I'd rather focus only on the member of my clan getting good.

But if you ask me, you're much better off removing the volume regardless of the situation when playing online and some have mics, majority of times it will end up distracting you and the payoff is rarely worth it.

Edited by scemopagliaccioh
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2 hours ago, Phil said:

Neckbeards and mountain dew.

hahahahahahahhaahahha I have to say mountain dew is by far the weirdest drink i ever had in USA xD yuck...

 

On topic: i only had hate messages when I played Assassin's creed brotherhood multiplayer and 2 trolls in Bloodborne. ACB was much more frequent. Lv 50s will have a problem with you if you get first place in wanted way too often. i used to like the multiplayer very much but right now I am kinda happy it is dying.

But....now, now, online communities/foruns is a different business. So far, as I have read you don't want to disagree with the majority of users in places like Eurogamer, Kotaku, reddit, etc. They live in a bubble. Imo, It's not about what you say, I think it's about how and when you say it, if you know what i mean.

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I don't think I've ever really used the word toxic but there's definitely good and bad communities IMO.

 

You get something like GTA Online where a large percentage of long time vets are just sitting around waiting to troll / grief new players.

 

Then you see something like Warframe where a large percentage of long time vets are sitting around hoping to find noobs in chat to help them get off the starting line.

 

Then there's the third kind like Diablo 3 where you go online and hackers screw up your stats.

 

I definitely know which one I prefer but I don't think any of them are bad enough to push me away.

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Well, since we are discussing open world games such as GTA V; there are quite a few players that would like to get started in a game and might need some help or guidance in missions, etc. When they say up front that they are beginning players and would like to learn a mission, how to mod a vehicle, etc, other players that bash them repeatedly over their mics when these noobies make a mistake could classify as jackasses for me.  I prefer to use the word jackass instead of toxic.

 

An example is today I was in a public free roam in RDR.  A couple of players were having fun doing Pike's Basin and minding their own business.  Another group formed a posse and decided to vote kick them because they wanted the "public" lobby to themselves.  Now that I think of it, that would be toxic.

Edited by Lorajet
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If you would be embarrassed for your mother to hear/see what is being said

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People who commonly, and genuinely, use the word toxic way more than necessary, those communities are toxic.

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3 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

People who commonly, and genuinely, use the word toxic way more than necessary, those communities are toxic.

 

If people are commonly, genuinely, using the word toxic around you enough for you to identify communities as toxic by that criteria... maybe the community isn't the problem. ;)

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Hacking a game, judging someone by their trophy/achievement collection, calling people names because of losing in an online match, attacking someone because of the type of weapon they use in an online match, etc, are all bad things to do. There is more but just a few examples.

14 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

People who commonly, and genuinely, use the word toxic way more than necessary, those communities are toxic.

I’m saying this in general but yeah, I do agree. I do get sick of hearing the word ‘toxic’ all the time.

Edited by BrettyBoy
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Gatekeeping is a big one. In general making it hard for new people to enter the community, especially if they want to play casually, is pretty toxic. 

 

Acting like anyone is playing a game "wrong", outside of actual cheating/ negatively affecting other players. The Undertale community had an issue with this where many players were hostile towards those they perceived as playing the game incorrectly. The Souls community is often like this towards people who summon other players when stuck. 

 

And obviously racism and sexism are the worst and should never be tolerated. 

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Being a giant [email protected] generally contributes to making a community toxic, which involves one or more of the following :

-insulting people for no good reason

-thinking your opinions are better than others

-mocking people for the things they like

-sexism/ homophobia/ racism/ bigotry

-bitching about stuff months after the fact as if it ended the world and killed your dog

-cheating and trying to lie about it

-not co-operating

-being completely selfish in game sessions

Edited by Stan Lee
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To me toxic is when someone deliberately do something unnecesary just to piss you off, even when he gets nothing in return. A toxic action is when something is really funny when you do, but makes you want to throw your dualshock at your TV on the contrary. And I'm not talking about someone really good destroying you, I'm talking about people that just want to provoke and waste your time, wiht nothing in return for them. 

 

The companies can, and should, punish extremely inappropiate behaviour like racism, hacking or almost making the game unplayable to new players, but toxicity cant be erased, you have to learn how to deal with it. Be it doing the same things and spreading the behaviour to others, or just ignoring it. Ultimately those people take pleasure on pissing of others, or they're just too salty to reason with. Some games just seem to be magnet to those peoples. 

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